The Dink Network

dmod reviews

August 4th 2015, 08:13 PM
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I've been noticing a lot of inconsistencies with reviews of dmods on the DN lately. In the older days it seems that dmods would get several reviews that would average out to something usually fairly reasonable. Please keep in mind that there are many high quality (and several very low quality) dmods on the DN.

I would expect that for a dmod to receive a very high score (8.0 and up) to be consistently good across several categories. It should have nice mapping, a very good story-line/plot, good dialogue, etc... To merit a 9.0 or above, the dmod should truly stand out. It should be outstanding in multiple categories.

Giving very high scores to really bad dmods diminishes the score for really good dmods that truly deserve such a high score. Remember that great dmods are usually great because their authors have slaved away putting all that they have into it. Some of these dmods take sereral months or even years to make.

Think of all the effort it must have taken to create something as good as "Cloud Castle 2: Scarab" for example. It was a great dmod because of all the time and effort that went into making it. And it was fun, and interesting, and memorable. But if another dmod author doesn't even bother with proper hardness, matching tiles up, etc... get a score that is barely one point lower -- well that is just wrong!

I understand that there will be people on the DN you like, but this shouldn't affect one's judgement. I like Skurn. I often like Skurn's comments on this forum. I think that skurn can be extremely helpful and knowledgeable. I would even go so far as to say that I don't think the DN would be the same without Skurn. But I would never give a high score to what is very obviously a really, really bad dmod because of that.

So try to keep some perspective when writing a review. Keep in mind the quality of the really, really good dmods out there and all that they entail. Because, to give a high score to a poorly made dmod (because it's quirky or whatever) diminishes all other dmods on the DN.

Thank you.


August 4th 2015, 09:37 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
How about we dispose of the scoring system so that the overall view of a dmod isn't based on numbers?
August 4th 2015, 09:49 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Back when things got five-ten reviews the score would somewhat accurately balance out. Nowadays things are lucky to get one let alone two reviews and the score they're giving will essentially determine the fate of that file. To me, that's horrible.

There are some ways to fix this.

One: Get rid of scores. This may or may not fix the problem. If a file only has one review and it's bad then someone reading that review will be largely less-inclined to download it.

Two: Allow people to score things without reviewing them. You'd only allow users with accounts to score things, but it would probably create much more average scores for many things. You could even keep these scores separate from scores given from reviews.

Three: Incentivize reviews. More reviews means a more accurate average score. You could do this by implementing a "featured review" section on the side of the page under the lurkers area that had the latest two featured reviews. Also, one could host a review contest.

Four: Create a specific moderator to score things based on a set criteria and disallow any other forms of scoring. If you feel any score given by the moderator seems too low or too high you can argue it.

Five: You can accept that things are as they are and force yourself to live with it.
August 4th 2015, 10:09 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
4 - scratcher gives everything a 1 and thus begins the second dark age of the Dink Network.
August 4th 2015, 10:17 PM
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Those are definitely some good ideas.

Sometimes I think that it would be nice if there were more categories as well. Even within the romp category, for example there is a big difference between a really short romp and one that is almost a quest.

And we could separate the dmods based almost entirely on fighting from those that are mainly adventure, etc....

That would help somewhat with consistency, I think, as you'd be comparing apples to apples.

Actually the Leprochaun's latest dmod is a perfect example. It's good compared to ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, but, how do I say this....... um...... you know.....

I mean, how do compare a game where you don't control anything to one where you do? So put it in the non-interactive category, I guess? And then compare it to other non-interactive dmods.

One last thing. Should I feel bad for hating some people's dmods? I'm really not trying to be hurtful. Am I too critical?
August 4th 2015, 11:59 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
I'd say that the only good ideas where 2,3 or possible a mix of 4 & 2. If anything I'd say that someone volunteer to just review the Dmods themselves kind of like how Cocomonkey played "all" the Dmods, also you could watch his playthroughs instead if you really need a review.
August 5th 2015, 08:21 AM
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scratcher
Bard
cigarette bonca 
6. Scratcher approves every review that was ever rejected, and thus begins the second dark age of the Dink Network.
August 5th 2015, 08:54 AM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
why don't we use the system that metacritic uses aka a game does not a score until at least there are 4 review scores for this , we could do the same and this way recent mods will have to wait a bit till it gets a minimum number of reviews
August 5th 2015, 12:39 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
The only problem with that is the amount of people this place usually gets & the fact that our main problem is the fact not many people are reviewing to begin with. I find most of the reviews useful at least since they usually tell some of the interesting things or you could see a general-ish view of the game.
August 5th 2015, 01:03 PM
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Like Dack says, it's unlikely that any recent D-mod is even going to get 4 reviews.
August 5th 2015, 01:08 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Well we might as well get some volunteers to start reviewing, I will since I got my laptop running & it can run Dink.
August 5th 2015, 04:20 PM
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Yes, I should write some reviews too. I'm going to. Hopefully nobody will take anything personally for those dmods I give a low score to.
August 6th 2015, 12:46 PM
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Skull
Peasant Male Finland
"I'd like to be a tree..." 
You shouldn't take the score of any D-Mod that Skorn has given a review to seriously. He gave HH1 a score of 3.0. and HH2 the score of 6.0. in what were two of the most biased reviews of all time that got approved for some reason, and which also clashed with every other review on those two files (quite frankly, cause he purposefully left most positive things unmentioned). We're talking about the same guy here who reviewed Stone of Balance as "horrible", and threatened to give the score of 0.0. to both HH2 and CC3 if they were to ever be released. I'm not sure why somebody who, out of spite, has threatened to review s D-Mod with a bad score before it was even halfway to being finished, would ever be allowed to write a review for said file.
August 6th 2015, 01:01 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Maybe the staff allowed it so we can see any bad things he experienced or so we can get a good laugh. Also since he's the drunken uncle of our Dink Family.
August 6th 2015, 02:55 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
You do realize I pointed out things I liked about them too, right? I think you need to learn what biased means.
August 6th 2015, 03:11 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
I think you need to learn what biased means.

It means you have two asses right? Seems like a tough condition.
August 6th 2015, 03:15 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Yes.
August 6th 2015, 05:01 PM
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Well Skull, I would write a fair and impartial review for you, but I don't want to have to submit 5 versions of a review before the board will accept one.

With "Dink's Quest for Meaning", we have a dmod with 7 screens where you can control absolutely nothing and it gets a 7.0! The reviewer did a great job of articulating why this dmod sucks. I could not have stated it better myself. But then why the 7.0. This thing was good???

And that thing that Skurn perpetrated on us recently got an 8.5 from someone!!

There is just no rhyme or reason here. I wash my hands. Between the board and these reviews lately, it's just hopeless. Just give any abject piece of crap any ridiculous, obscene score whatever.

So how am I supposed to know if a dmod is actually worth playing or not?

Also, why bother with making something good. When "Sour Gummy Worms" gets an 8.5, scores have lost all meaning any ways. You could create a great work of art and not get a better score than that.
August 6th 2015, 05:04 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Yeah, Dink's Quest for Meaning definitely doesn't deserve a 7. I made that thing in like an hour and a half with no intention of it being good.
August 6th 2015, 05:10 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Wow, I am officially sick of brassweasel's shit.
August 6th 2015, 05:32 PM
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Skurn, I told you it's nothing personal. You know you are capable of better. Just use proper hardness, match tiles up, etc...

You know that your dmod wasn't elite. 8.5 is an elite score. That's higher than the Blacksmith's Trail. Can you honestly say that your dmod deserves that kind of score? I've seen some reviews you wrote. You can be objective about other people's dmods.

Leprechaun, I understand your intentions with your dmod, and I appreciate that. It's these scores that I object to, not your work.

I apologize if I has too harsh. I'm just frustrated because I could make something similar to some of these dmods in a few hours. Yet there are efforts that would take months that don't rank as high.

Think about it Skurn. Be fair. Don't hate the brassweasel.

August 6th 2015, 05:44 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
"Use proper hardness, match tiles". Ok, but that wasn't the point of the dmod. In your review, you judged it based on how other dmods are made.

Not only that, you judged it based on the entire map in general and didn't elaborate on your points. You just pretty much said how bad it is several times in a row with different words. You said the story is bad - ok, what about the story was bad? Where are your points on the gameplay?

DaVince described what he enjoyed and why. He also described what he didn't like. I want to see a more fair review. 8.5 was because he had fun. What was your experience?
August 6th 2015, 05:59 PM
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Okay Skurn. Maybe that's fair. I'm not the most articulate guy.

But I've read a lot of reviews and people used to give these kind of scores all the time. You probably remember that? Maybe I am too harsh and not constructive enough. But I've read reviews where the reviewer asked the author if he was retarded. I haven't engaged in that kind of ad hominem attack.

Maybe your dmods appeal to others. But that's the problem with only one review. Your dmods aren't to my taste.

Skurn, I find your comments on the DN to be helpful and informative. You are an intelligent person, clearly. You are insightful. For whatever reason, your dmods don't appeal to me and I have a hard time articulating why. I honestly don't mean any offence to you or anyone else.

August 6th 2015, 06:18 PM
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BTW. I judge every dmod by the way other dmods are made. I wouldn't know how else to judge them. Maybe I did miss the point. I'm not sure what the point was. Because you said it was an entrant in that contest thing, I compared it to "Blacksmith's Trail" which is a high standard. I was a bit shocked by the 8.5. Other than that, I probably wouldn't have reviewed the dmod at all.

Do you understand the point I was trying to make though? If so many dmods get elite scores, then how does something like CC2 of BFTG stand out? I'd just be looking at a lot of really high scores with no way of knowing how to differntiate.

August 6th 2015, 06:26 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
They should stand out based on reputation, but we have a scoring system. We should just get rid of that.

Also, the contest entry thing was a joke. That contest has been done for about a million years.
August 6th 2015, 06:48 PM
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They should stand out based on reputation, but we have a scoring system. We should just get rid of that.

Also, the contest entry thing was a joke. That contest has been done for about a million years.

I don't disagree with that. Maybe there should be a section where people can post their most recommended lists. That could give some guidance for people looking for great dmods to play.

And I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, Skurn. I'll choose my words more carefully in the future. If it's any consolation, I might not write any more reviews. The board doesn't seem to care for my reviews any ways.

August 6th 2015, 06:52 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Just elaborate on each point more and it'll be fine.
August 6th 2015, 07:32 PM
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I apologize to the Leprechaun also. In retrospect, I was unkind, although I swear I have nothing personal against anyone on the DN.

Leprechaun has done great work in the past and will in the future. I just had a "what the hell???" moment when you couldn't control dink.

But maybe I was unfair to judge by the stanard of normal dmods.

If it means anything at all, I judge all art by the old masters. All cubism, etc... is garbage to me. Am I too rigid?

Have I worn out my welcome on the DN? Maybe I should just make dmods rather than making comments.

Sorry to all if I offended anyone.

August 6th 2015, 07:53 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
You haven't worn out your welcome. Wat.
August 6th 2015, 07:55 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
To me it's okay to write a review like yours, it shows how you experianced it. The reviews are mainly how people experianced the file, while most might not have a bad time they can manage to show why exactly so people know what to look out for. You could try reading other reviews to try & get the hang of what makes a good informative one if needed.
August 6th 2015, 07:56 PM
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scratcher
Bard
cigarette bonca 
As I see it, each file should be judged based on what it is, rather than comparing them too much to everything else on the site. For example, I might think that Lost Forest Romp is the perfect romp, and give it a 9.9. (This is a completely hypothetical example. I don't actually think that. ) Then, I might play a huge epic, like Cloud Castle 2, and give it an 8.0 because I think there were some serious problems, like too many bugs, and the fights were too difficult.

Does this mean I think Lost Forest Romp is better than Cloud Castle 2? No, of course not, because I was never comparing Lost Forest Romp directly against Cloud Castle 2. They're in completely different weight classes.

Same thing with something like the Quest for Meaning. It's a random little interactive movie thing, so it should be judged as such, rather than held against sprawling epics and the like, and given a 0 because it just can't compare. I think judging like that is both unfair and unhelpful; when you download the file, it clearly says it's a movie and not a normal dmod. The only thing a review giving it a 0 accomplishes, then, is restating that 'Indeed, this is only an interactive movie'. It doesn't say anything about the quality of the movie itself.

The scores, overall, just aren't mutually intelligible. At best, I think they're a convenience that lets you see which stuff is decent at a glance. If you sort dmods by score, there are plenty of disrepancies. No way is the one screen dmod compilation on par with the epics, for example, or Crosslink in its unfinished state better than Stone of Balance. (Were it complete, it just might be the best dmod ever.)

The unfortunate consequence is that sometimes something like Sour Gummy Worms is given an 8.5, and Solstice a 6.7, making it seem like SGW is much better than your dmod. But those reviews weren't even written by the same person, so I don't think there's too much cause for offense... (although I can certainly see why you'd be pissed) The scores just don't work well that way.

And I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, Skurn. I'll choose my words more carefully in the future. If it's any consolation, I might not write any more reviews. The board doesn't seem to care for my reviews any ways.

I wouldn't say that, your reviews are quite well-written, and there are so few people reviewing anything these days that it's actually incredibly welcome. One of the most useful things anyone could do, besides creating more dmods, of course. =) The only reason any of your reviews have been rejected, is just because of the way you've approached individual dmods... Generally, we're pretty harsh towards extremely low scores and extremely high scores, while anything mediocre has an easy time passing through. Sour Gummy Worms is definitely one of the wilder cases, with scores ranging from 8.5 to 0.7. But it's a pretty unusual dmod, all around. Personally, I can totally see where DaVince is coming from in his review, while at the same time, thinking that the dmod is complete trash seems quite reasonable.
August 6th 2015, 08:06 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
I just had a "what the hell???" moment when you couldn't control dink.
But maybe I was unfair to judge by the standard of normal dmods.


Well I made that dmod in a similar fashion towards The Savebot Massacre.
I don't really care for the dmod itself, but I like the style in which it was made.

I like the idea of making dmods that seem more like a movie. If/when I release more Epoch & Aeon games they'd pretty much just be long cutscenes. Probably end up like a Tell-Tale game without choices. So basically every now and then you'd get to walk around and examine stuff but for the most part you'd just be watching.

I don't like feeling like I have to follow a certain standard, and that happened when I was making the first E&A. I felt like it *needed* gameplay. So I forcefully shoved that fetch quest into it and I really regret that. It feels really unnatural and has brought shame upon an otherwise decent beginning of a story. All I want to do is tell a story, so I don't need gameplay for that. In fact gameplay can/will actually detract from that. If I can naturally throw gameplay into them I will, but I'm not going to put in gameplay elements just to have them.

Maybe I should just make dmods rather than making comments.

Keep making comments and writing reviews.
August 6th 2015, 08:10 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
@Leprochaun, maybe you can try adding choices in later episodes of E&A, thus it be more of an "interactive" movie.
August 6th 2015, 08:14 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
eh, maybe.
August 6th 2015, 08:34 PM
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Thank you for the comments. They are very helpful.

I didn't mind the review of my last two dmods, actually, as I made them rather quickly. I admit that I would have appreciated a more comprehensive review of Orb though as I put several months of effort into it and only got a one-sentence review. But that's okay.

Please keep in mind that I gave SGW seven times as high a score as Redink1 gave to Pokemon: bible version. I'm just saying...........

August 6th 2015, 08:37 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Well don't worry you get good critism on your Dmods sooner or later, but the community here is rather lazy with anything that isn't comments. I swear I'll give a detailed review of it by the end of this week, it's on my list with some other recent things.
August 6th 2015, 08:49 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Yeah, but Sour Gummy Worms has more than 7 times the content and is actually a game, so I don't see how that makes sense. Just rewrite the review with details. I want to see specifics.
August 6th 2015, 08:53 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
@Skurn, your talking about Brassweasel's right? I was specific enough with my review & think with the info I provided it was a good enough scoring. Also was the cliff area with ducks intentional with the hardness or was it accidental?

Note: I'll try to review a Dmod everyday just so anyone or Brassweasel knows that the Dmods are getting recent reviews.
August 6th 2015, 08:57 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
I was referring to brass's review since I didn't know you reviewed it.
August 6th 2015, 09:14 PM
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I'd have to download that one again and revisited it. It's not really easy to be specific with this type of dmod. It's like looking at a painting that just doesn't speak to you and trying to define why in a detailed fashion.

I'll tell you what I will do. Name any other dmod you created and I will give it a detailed review (Except P:BV). You used to be Skorn, right? Did you make any more traditional dmods under that name that I might appreciate?

August 6th 2015, 09:23 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
He's gone under that name, absolution & anything else relating to those 2. You could try reviewing them all so we could see what's his best work.
August 6th 2015, 09:26 PM
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I didn't know that. Also I keep thinking of Skurn as a girl because of the icon.
August 6th 2015, 09:27 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
this skurn
also skurn
this is obviously skurn
probably skurn, I dunno.
probs skurn

There are others too, like DUCKINGBALLS for instance.
August 6th 2015, 09:28 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
He is very much a guy, also you shouldn't judge someone's character off of their avatar. You might be surprised, but I'm not a guard for King Daniel. I'm still not sure if you're a burning tree or not, but burning branches falling off onto a keyboard would allow you to type.

Edit: I think Punisher is different from Skurn,they each have a seperate mind & I think I've seen them post at the same time before. Though he could have multi personality disorder.
August 6th 2015, 09:33 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Also I keep thinking of Skurn as a girl because of the icon.

That's because for some reason skrumpy and bornfree swapped their profile stuff. I don't know why or if they even had a reason.
August 6th 2015, 09:34 PM
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Skull
Peasant Male Finland
"I'd like to be a tree..." 
You do realize I pointed out things I liked about them too, right? I think you need to learn what biased means.

You barely pointed out any positive things about the D-Mods. You only added an occasional ridiculous "positive" remark so your review wouldn't appear completely biased. Clever trick, but it's fairly obvious. Especially if you read the other reviews and notice how much your reviews clash with them. Your reviews are also full of false statements as well as opinions without explanation. "This isn't good", "I didn't like this", "This sucks", but never did you explain why. I also find it funny that you obviously forced these negative aspects into your mind, because the real negative things in the games, you left out. You also left out a ton of positive things on purpose, one good example being the lore which is one of the most highly praised parts about both games.

Let's face it, you would've given both of those D-Mods a 0.0. score if you could, just to be a jerk, but you settled for giving them the lowest possible score you knew the staff would ever approve. You never cared how those D-Mods were in the first place; you had already made up your mind before you played them.
August 6th 2015, 09:35 PM
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Skurn has a rich history with this game! A year ago, I never even heard of Dink Smallwood. I just found it in the Linux repository.

For the point Scratcher made about not comparing too much, I guess that is fair. If I compared these dmods to Zelda: Ocarina of Time, none of them would do very well. Yet some of them are definitely worth playing.

August 6th 2015, 09:36 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
I think he may have ment comparing them to other Dmods, which would mainly be okay if it's alike to something like comparing Graphic packs to Graphic packs.
August 6th 2015, 09:46 PM
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I just looked at your profile DackFight. You haven't made any dmods? Have you thought about making any? It's an interesting process.
August 6th 2015, 09:48 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
which would mainly be okay if it's alike to something like comparing Graphic packs to Graphic packs.

I don't really think you can compare graphic packs to graphic packs very well. It'd be really hard to compare the banana weapon to the Blonca, and honestly if you wrote a review of one comparing it to the other that would just be bananas. Graphics should be judged on how interesting it is, how well it blends with the original graphics, the overall quality, etc.

Dmods can be compared to one another, that's totally fine, but as scratcher stated they should only be compared within their categories. romp/romp quest/quest epic/epic misc/misc. Otherwise you're not comparing them fairly. If you do compare it with the low scores and high scores of those categories, try not to base your judgement solely on that comparison.

August 6th 2015, 09:49 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
I have, but the problem is I don't know how to script, but I can map very well.

@Leprochaun, those are better examples & yeah graphic packs are a bad idea, but the first thing that came to mind.
August 6th 2015, 10:32 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
August 7th 2015, 07:28 AM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
This certainly has been a great discussion , now brassweasel don't get me wrong on this but i certainly have personally enjoyed your recent dmods they have been great from the regular few screen size dmods we keep getting these days.

Now if this same topic was being discussed when the site member's strength and game popularity were at its peak it would have a lot more weight.

Honestly i think there are probably only a few people who are just active here now, i probably don't think they even go for the dmods by the score at all. I personally have started to pick out dmods to play randomly.

It is pretty sad that we cant seem to convince seth to push the game to to steam and other places specially now that pc gaming has been growing quite strongly.

I don't think there are that many people now that they actively seek out to play dmods to play based on the score...

That being said about comparing older score dmods with the current score ones is not really accurate since the older ones tend to have more reviews than now. which is why i was saying that a dmod should not have a score until it has certain amount of reviews.

Score's have certainly been a hot topic for debate not just here but the whole gaming world , you always get comments like look that reviewer gave call of duty xx 10 of 10 but gave that nice indie game a 7/10 etc etc.

August 7th 2015, 02:23 PM
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DackFIght
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
We could try to all write Seth a letter or email & that might convince him. We could also try to ask if he'd made it the property of the DN so we can upload it to Steam. Also we could try to get our friends to play the game so the game gets popular again & then he might be determined to move it to a bigger audience.
August 7th 2015, 05:58 PM
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I've noticed for a while that it does (unfortunately) seem to be a dying community. I wish I'd have discovered the game years earlier.
August 7th 2015, 06:35 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
2015 alone has had what, 11 Dmods released so far? That's a pretty big deal. 2014 had maybe 6 dmods. 2013 had 1. 2012 had 8 I think. 2011 may have only had 4, 2010 had 17. So it's been quite a few years since there have been as many dmods released.

So it's definitely not dying. We probably have enough releases to bring back DOTY. I don't think we did that for 2014. Which we really should.
August 7th 2015, 07:25 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Were there ever any prizes for those? If there were then some people might be willing to quit their job to go into Dmoding full time.
August 7th 2015, 08:39 PM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
While it is true the number of dmods have increased but the game is still not known well in gaming community these days ,specially the modern gamers every now and then i mention dink smallwood in forums like gog and steam where they talk about free games and it certainly finds new fans every time.

I wonder if redink can add the game to steam greenlight with seth's permission ...

if we could be just featured by chance in one of the sites like kotaku or ign etc it would certainly bring in more people.

lol should we start a petition or something to get seth's attention ?
August 7th 2015, 08:57 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
dink smallwood in forums like gog and steam where they talk about free games and it certainly finds new fans every time.

Well then keep mentioning it.

if we could be just featured by chance in one of the sites like kotaku

Kotaku
August 7th 2015, 09:07 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Bringing in loads of people from mainstream sources is a terrible idea.
August 7th 2015, 09:50 PM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
kosovo je srbija 
Yes, Skorn's right. Also Kotaku and its userbase is quite a shitpile so you probably wouldn't want too many people from there. I have a feeling that most people who come to the game from mainstream sources play the main game and then maybe look at Mystery Island and then quit for good.

The people who have discovered Dink and this forum along with DMODS in recent times have discovered the game through installing Freedink. It's how we got Shevek at least, along with a few others here and there.

I think the GNU/Linux gaming community would find it pretty interesting due to the lack of games on the platform, and it seems to have been mentioned briefly on some sites which is nice.
August 7th 2015, 09:52 PM
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Okay, so there's no women on here at all? Not even one? The forum needs some women! There used to be a Carrie2004 and a Ms. Dink. What happened to them? They seemed pretty cool looking at past messages. Maybe someone can get them back on here.
August 7th 2015, 09:55 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Carrie probably floats around often maybe. As for MsDink, I have absolutely no idea.
August 7th 2015, 09:58 PM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
kosovo je srbija 
They all died from old age. Also Skorn's a girl so that's about enough.
August 7th 2015, 10:00 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
MsDink is probably extremely busy. She's definitely one of the oldest people who have ever stuck around TDN. I miss her. She was insanely nice. I wished she made a post from time to time.
August 7th 2015, 10:00 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Yeah, they were about 1 or 2. Ducking weird times.
August 7th 2015, 10:59 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Can anyone talk to them on Facebook or some other engine, then we can get the ladies back & maybe some of the guys if someone's into that.
August 12th 2015, 05:15 PM
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Skurn says:"Bringing in loads of people from mainstream sources is a terrible idea."

Can you elaborate on this, please?
August 12th 2015, 08:50 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Mainstream places have the highest quantity of assholes. Let's just not.

EDIT: 69th post.
August 13th 2015, 12:17 AM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
I semi agree with Skurn on this, we may get more Skur.... I mean trolls. It might be better for us to just talk to our friends about it or wait for people to discover it themselves & hope we don't all die waiting for people to discover it themselves as well. We could also try locking the DN some more if we really are worried about bad trolls.
August 14th 2015, 12:16 AM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
I honestly don't think going mainstream will bring in that much of a change, its not like we are pushing for all of them to join the forums. The game and dmods getting more attention is the focus.
i have been checking up on this place since 2005 but only made a account and started posting on the forums much much later.

Besides every forum tends to have such people is it that hard to moderate them ?

All i keep thinking is off getting this game somehow to steam and gog it needs to happen somehow , some of the older games in steam are starting to get active again due to the workshop in steam.

I sent a email and a tweet to seth about it , i guess he ignored it again...

August 14th 2015, 12:58 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
He can't hear us over all dat Growtopia muns.
August 14th 2015, 01:44 AM
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scratcher
Bard
cigarette bonca 
It's sad that by far the most profitable game Seth's ever made is a crappy 2D minecraft. But I guess that's just the way the world works... RPGs or adventure games have never been that profitable, the only reason to do those is if you really really want to.

This explains why we don't have more great things like BALDUR'S GATE or PILLARS OF ETERNITY.
August 14th 2015, 01:52 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Growtopia is nothing like Minecraft. You break blocks to plant them into more block or something.

And the reason we don't have more things like Baldur's Gate is because Baldur's Gate is a piece of shit that might have been alright for the time but overtime has shown that is actually sucks.

Basically, like most NES games.
August 14th 2015, 04:58 AM
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Quiztis
Peasant Male Sweden steam
Life? What's that? Can I download it?! 
Begone! You vile, contradictory creature!
August 14th 2015, 05:42 AM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
Scratcher knows.
August 14th 2015, 06:43 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
I'd hope scratcher knows that Baldur's Gate is a shitpile. He can't be allowed to live in such a disturbing illusion that it's not a shitpile.
August 14th 2015, 01:22 PM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
It's great. You know nothing.
August 14th 2015, 07:52 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
@Skurn, for your reasoning, it was probably the technology at the time, it was a miracle at the time, but compared too today it is basically sub-par.

@Scratcher, it's probably since RPG's have to have a story which most kids won't want to read(Unless there is a good looking lady like FF) & they want something that they can show off. Also Nowadays most RPGs do kind of start to look alike with the main differences being the exact story & characters.
August 14th 2015, 10:57 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
It's not just age either. Plenty of games still hold up, but that's just because the gameplay is superior in them.

Baldur's Gate on the other hand...no. There's something unique in Dungeons and Dragons, however, where people who were into the game when AD&D was the main edition or even earlier, can't seem to remove their goggles. There's this guy called Spoony who is a massive raging cock and calls people pussies and says that people want things spoon fed to them these days. To try and sound like a badass he explains how you got 1 set of rolls for your character and you stuck with them no matter what. This pretty much always makes for shitty characters. You could want a really good mage. Oops, you couldn't even roll a 10. Fighter? Your strength is alright but your endurance might as well be your dump stat with how low it is. That's just poor design and if that ducker was my DM, I'd drop out because that would be unusually boring.

Go ahead and like Baldur's Gate. It's still shit, though. So is Neverwinter. Hopefully, Wizards will just make a fully functioning tabletop simulator like roll20, but more intuitive and with all the materials you could need from boring ass core stuff to were-toilets.
August 15th 2015, 04:52 AM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
"Baldur's Gate on the other hand...no. There's something unique in Dungeons and Dragons, however, where people who were into the game when AD&D was the main edition or even earlier, can't seem to remove their goggles. There's this guy called Spoony who is a massive raging cock and calls people pussies and says that people want things spoon fed to them these days. To try and sound like a badass he explains how you got 1 set of rolls for your character and you stuck with them no matter what. This pretty much always makes for shitty characters. You could want a really good mage. Oops, you couldn't even roll a 10. Fighter? Your strength is alright but your endurance might as well be your dump stat with how low it is. That's just poor design and if that ducker was my DM, I'd drop out because that would be unusually boring.

Go ahead and like Baldur's Gate. It's still shit, though. So is Neverwinter. Hopefully, Wizards will just make a fully functioning tabletop simulator like roll20, but more intuitive and with all the materials you could need from boring ass core stuff to were-toilets."


That whole section is about one guy being a bit of a tool. It's got nothing to do with Baldur's Gate.

Infinity Engine games are damn clunky nowadays (the magic system in particular is irritating) but there is a lot to love still. Some of the greatest sword and sorcery type adventures ever released in gaming, even after all this time.

Neverwinter Nights wasn't for me though. Never got one with it. Story wasn't interesting enough to pull you through the mechanics.

Will definitely get around to Pillars of Eternity at some point.
August 15th 2015, 05:09 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Neverwinter Nights! That was the one I meant, yes. But the MMO, Neverwinter is shit, too.

That whole section is about one guy being a bit of a tool. It's got nothing to do with Baldur's Gate.

Not completely, but Baldur's Gate is AD&D and Spoony is a dumbass who thinks rolling a bunch of single digits for a character is awesome. Scratcher is absolutely nothing like that; I'm mostly ducking around and bringing up how shitty Baldur's Gate is at random points now.

Happens in the dinkchat too. Come join me in being horrible to scratcher.
August 15th 2015, 03:49 PM
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Toof
Peasant Male
I disagree. 
Back to review issue:

Old reviews were something like:
Plot/storyline: score
Maping: score
balance: score
__________final score

when you review plot based dmod, just don't take fighting into account and vice versa. If someone wants to download a dmod, he can see in description what it is. I don't see a problem there. Or add size description on the dmod list page (epic, quest, romp...).

Back to Skurn:
You really shoudn't be peasant. Give him black star, and some unique status like anti king.
August 15th 2015, 04:49 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
You really shoudn't be peasant. Give him black star, and some unique status like anti king.

I once suggested a rainbow star with a mouseover saying "Supreme Being" but redink1 is too mean.
August 15th 2015, 05:10 PM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Or maybe just remove the star. That way you're not even considered a peasant.
August 15th 2015, 06:51 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Would Skurn even get any privileges like being able to abuse staff powers or would he lose some options? With Anti-King it'd seem like he could try & destroy the forum a bit.
August 15th 2015, 06:56 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Give me power, redink1. I promise I won't abuse it. ✿◠‿◠
August 16th 2015, 05:03 AM
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Robj
Peasant Male Australia
You feed the madness, and it feeds on you. 
if you give Skurn any power, this forum is going to hell.. or whatevers left of it.. most of the novelty and life's already been sucked out of it. Everytime i feel like working on anything anymore i lose motivation when i think of the state of this place. lol.
August 16th 2015, 06:41 AM
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Toof
Peasant Male
I disagree. 
Dink network is dying again? You're just getting old Robj. Less and less cookies...
August 16th 2015, 01:40 PM
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DackFIght
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Well then, it's time for a good ole fashioned DN Bake Sale, I made Co.... nevermind.
August 26th 2015, 08:40 PM
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So I,ve been looking at dmod reviews and I find the discrepancies in scores for some of these dmods to be quite fascinating! Here are some of the more interesting cases I found (I didn't look at every dmod, these are just some of the ones that stood out.):

"Counter Strike CTF" gets a 7.5 from the famous Simon K, and a 0.0 from the almost-as-famous Scratcher.

"Legend of the Duck" gets two scores of 8.0, but gets a score as low as 1.0.
"Revenge of the Duck" gets two scores of 8.5, but gets a score as low as 1.0.
"Progeny" gets a score as high as 8.5 and as low as 0.5.
"Search for Milli Vanilli" gets scores ranging from 8.5 to 1.0.
"Crystal of Power" gets the following scores" 8.0, 8.0, 0.8, 0.0! With four reviews there is nothing between 8.0 and 0.8!

And the biggest discrepancy I found was with "Ex-peppermint" which scored as high as 9.7 and as low as 0.3!!

The lesson here: don't take any score too seriously.

On a side note: Simon k. gave his own "Creeping Sands" a 9.3 (way, way too high), but he gave "Cloud Castle 2: Scarab" only an 8.9!! Come on now!
August 26th 2015, 08:57 PM
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That being said, I hope people will keep writing reviews because I think the content of the reviews are interesting and helpful. So I'm definitely not discouraging that. I'm just saying that any one score might not be representative of the dmod and we should keep that in mind.
August 26th 2015, 10:11 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Why are you people not appeased, well I guess it's completely your fault I'm quitting reviewing now, it's not like I quit a couple weeks ago. You're all to blame, JK.

Why not try writing some reviews of your own to help get a nice amount of details out in the open, I didn't see you at the reviewer's conference held at the parking lot of Taco Bell.
August 26th 2015, 10:19 PM
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I almost wrote a review of "Quest for Dorinthia 2" and I almost wrote a review of "the 3 amulets". I guess I should write some reviews. I have to admit that I've mostly just played the high-rated and low-rated dmods and very few of the ones in between.

I'm curious about trying some of these other dmods though. I mean, is "Crystal of Power" that good or is it that bad?

August 26th 2015, 11:32 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
That's when happens when you translate opinions into something as compressed and simple as a number. For example, I gave Stone of Balance a very low score because it's an ungodly boring piece of shit. Most people seem to love it. No idea why, but I guess that's why it has a green star or whatever.

I'm curious about trying some of these other dmods though. I mean, is "Crystal of Power" that good or is it that bad?

This is why you look away from the scores and play it for yourself. When I look at reviews, I tend to care more about if it's broken or if there are elements I'm not fond of. If a lot of people say it's broken, I'll probably stay away or try it if I think I can avoid the problems based on what people have said. If they say it has something like, say, goblins and orcs beating the shit out of eachother, it's probably generic shit. Often times screenshots are a good way to determine if there's elements you like, be it signs in the UI or by what it looks like. I know that's literally basing the game on its looks to see if you'll like it, but in an industry where things are recycled, the more un-ordinary things are probably the most fun.
August 27th 2015, 09:38 AM
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DaVince
Peasant Male Netherlands steam
Olde Time Dinkere 
"I understand that there will be people on the DN you like, but this shouldn't affect one's judgement. I like Skurn. I often like Skurn's comments on this forum. I think that skurn can be extremely helpful and knowledgeable. I would even go so far as to say that I don't think the DN would be the same without Skurn. But I would never give a high score to what is very obviously a really, really bad dmod because of that."

I wonder if this is an indirect reply to the 8.5 I gave Skurn for her last Dmod? Because I was having a total blast playing that highly creative, crazy thing. I made sure my review was as fairly as my feelings for the Dmod were.

But in the end, a score is just a score. What matters most by far in a game, to me, is its enjoyability, and I just love what Skurn did to dodge the same old boring "hit pillbugs a million times" problem some Dmods have.

Reviews really are a reflection of the opinion of the person who wrote them. I say don't worry if there are outliers, that's just the nature of it.
August 27th 2015, 11:54 AM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
I maintain SimonK marked down CC2 because he knew in his black and evil heart that it was better than his own d-mods.

The game had issues, but 8.9? PSSSSSSHHHHT.
August 27th 2015, 11:56 AM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
Some of the gaps in those review scores are ridiculous though. 0.8 - 8? Wow.
August 27th 2015, 01:10 PM
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scratcher
Bard
cigarette bonca 
The game had issues, but 8.9? PSSSSSSHHHHT.

An 8.9 seems perfectly reasonable (I'd give CC2 an 8.0 ), but it does look rather distasteful when you realize SimonK reviewed a lot of his own files, and gave very nearly all of them a higher score, including that 24-hour romp full of terrible cringeworthy fart humour.

Not sure if the man had an evil agenda, or he just really really hearted his own things. Authors reviewing their own dmods... That's just icky territory, in general.
August 27th 2015, 01:41 PM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
No morals, that man. NO MORALS.
August 27th 2015, 01:47 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
He has enough morals to put them into his Dmods, also he might have some morels with how good he is. Why was he allowed to review his own dmods though?
August 27th 2015, 03:38 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
I wonder if Simon not only praised his own dmods, but also accepted them the moment he threw them together.
August 27th 2015, 04:54 PM
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I must offer my apologies to DaVince. Although I admit I was shocked by your review, your opinion is, of course, as valid as any other. Maybe Skurn's work is just an example of the kind of art that some people can relate to and others just don't get.

I can see that it may not be possible to get a consensus on this forum. One can work on a dmod for a few days and someone could love it, or one could work one a dmod for years and someone could hate it. I guess the thing to do is to try your best and that's it.

And although none of my dmods have got a good score, I do appreciate some of the positive comments I have received from others such as Quiztis, Shevek, Scratcher, etc... It's very nice.

Scratcher was joking when he said that he'd give CC2 an 8.0, right? Well I loved CC2 anyways.

August 27th 2015, 06:19 PM
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scratcher
Bard
cigarette bonca 
No joke. I might give it a 9 - I would really have to play the dmod again if I were to write a review, it's around there somewhere. Also, Stone of Balance gets an 8, Initiation gets a 7, FIAT gets an 8, and Pilgrim's Quest gets a 5.
August 27th 2015, 06:42 PM
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Wow!!
August 28th 2015, 04:23 AM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
All context, right. 8.9 is only a bit naughty because he gave his own d-mods much higher ratings.

August 28th 2015, 04:29 AM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
As Skurn says, a number means little on its own.
August 28th 2015, 05:01 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
We should delete Simon's reviews of his own dmods.

Seriously, an ego bigger than a train.
August 28th 2015, 06:38 AM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
Not as big as mine, Paul.

Not as big as mine.
August 28th 2015, 11:04 AM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Does Redink have a bigger ego, does anyone here? By the way has anyone ever contacted Simon after his departure?
August 28th 2015, 11:52 AM
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Striker
Noble United States steam
Daniel, there is a clown. 
Nah, Dan is fairly humble and will sometimes just pretend to be an arrogant megalomaniac because it makes a good foil to his usual personality. He's also very smart and knows it, so that can sometimes come off as a bit arrogant.

Simon's insistence on rating his own d-mods always really bugged me. I know I confronted him about his self-reviews a long time ago, back before I was a noble (I think), and he told me he felt perfectly justified in doing it.
August 28th 2015, 01:30 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
perfectly justified

h...h-how?
August 29th 2015, 04:34 AM
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MsDink
Peasant Female New Zealand
Tag - Umm.. tag, you're it? 
cant hate the scores - people give it in their opinion THEIR OPINION what it deserves according to THEIR perspective etc - u wanna score it go do an unbiased review instead of dissin others who made the effort tsk
August 29th 2015, 06:07 AM
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DinkDude95
Peasant Male Australia steam
The guy with the cute D-Mod. 
"should I review my own DMOD? Hell, why not."

"midis - hey I chose them, they must be good."

Typical 'straya attitude, can't hate that.

"Well in hindsight I think I made it too hard and obscure it parts."

But hey, at least he's honest.
August 29th 2015, 10:41 AM
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leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Well in hindsight I think I made it too hard and obscure it parts. I gotta take some off for that.

And the score he gave is a 9.8. I guess taking some off is .1 point.
August 29th 2015, 02:09 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Maybe he honestly took more points off, but gave bonus points for other stuff like the obviously integral, " New weapons, a few, including the club with new graphics" can't argue with some good stuff like the club & such, I'd give a whole extra 10 points for that alone.
August 29th 2015, 02:50 PM
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Well MsDink doesn't understand my points, but I'm glad that many of you do. And I appreciate that fact that although I had offended Skurn, he has made some very intelligent points on this, so I think he understands as well.

So many of you understand that it is no easy task making dmods. It can take months and some people put everything they have into making their dmods. And when one has poured so much of themselves into these, trying their best to make others happy throught their art, well then naturally they want others to play their dmods. That's only natural.

But the situation we have here as that the dmods are ranked in order. With the click of a button we can see that. And people will choose what dmods to play based solely on this and nothing else.

So all I was trying to convey was that people should be very careful in throwing around 8s and 9s because the unfortunate consequence is that it reflects on every single other dmod on the DN.

Take, for example, CC2. 8.9 wouldn’t be such a bad score if there were only 1 or 2 dmods that rank higher than that. But with so many (way too many) dmods get 9s, then 8.9 becomes an insulting score for what obviously took so much to make. But if someone slaps together something in 24 hrs. and gives that a 9.3......... well, you see where I am going with this.

As I said earlier, in the old days a dmod would get several reviews and things would tend to balance out. But now so often one person makes the judgement alone and a dmod's fate hangs in the balance. A score that is way too low diminishes that dmod. A score that is way too high diminishes all other dmods. That's unfortunate, but true.

So despite what Ms. Dink says, my points are perfectly valid. And yes, Ms. Dink, I CAN hate the reviews.
August 29th 2015, 02:54 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
"should I review my own DMOD? Hell, why not."

"midis - hey I chose them, they must be good."

Typical 'straya attitude, can't hate that.

"Well in hindsight I think I made it too hard and obscure it parts."

But hey, at least he's honest.


*shudders*. Maybe it's best we don't see Necromancer. He'll bug redink1 about increasing the score maximum just so he can give it 20 points or some shit.
August 29th 2015, 04:10 PM
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Not to belabour the point, but I want to give one more example. I just finished playing a dmod named "Moonchild". It gets one review by Scratcher who gives it a 7.5. Well, that's about right. He compares it to "Furball" because they are both non-combat, exploration dmods. Well "Furball" has a lot of beautiful artwork and very nice mapping, but so does "Moonchild". Well, if one plays a lot of dmods, then play both of these. But when "Furball" gets a 9.0 based on one review and "Moonchild" gets a 7.5 based on one review, then which one are people going to play? Obviously "Furball". But "Moonchild" is far more creative, complex, whimsical, and humorous. Not to put down "Furball", but "Moonchild" is definitely better. But Who will play it at 7.5???

Well maybe Sabretrout is correct. Maybe it isn't worth making dmods any more. I don't know. It's all in the luck of the draw with who reviews the dmod. I don't even care about score beyond the fact that it makes all the difference in who will play the dmod after all the hard work.

Unfortunately I have been working on a dmod for months now and I don't want to throw it away. But only five people will play it because...... And it will be my last dmod.

August 29th 2015, 04:23 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
So, both of us have released about 2000 dmods this year combined and now neither of us will make a dmod ever again this year as well. Or I might not.

What.
August 29th 2015, 04:33 PM
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Actually, Skurn, you should try "Moonchild". You like unique dmods and that is a unique one. Be careful not to get caught on scenery though as that is a big problem with that dmod.

I'm not so bitter as I sound. It's really not even about score. It would just be nice to have a bigger audience like in the old days.

Ps - Skurn, you have the most knowledge about RPGs of anyone. Did you like "Eternal Darkness" for the N64?

August 29th 2015, 04:56 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
I did try Moonchild after I posted, got stuck by freeze(1) when choosing not to talk to the bar guy and quit.

Never played Eternal Darkness for N64. Only N64 games I have are Superman and Perfect Dark.
August 29th 2015, 05:59 PM
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Leprochaun!!

Yes, there are a few bugs like that, but it is a very imaginative dmod.
August 29th 2015, 10:52 PM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
lol those are pretty strange scores up there but simon reviewing his own dmod is a bit biased and i think it should removed out.

ever since coco passed way i have been thinking of just playing out a ton of dmods randomly and reivewing those which i manage to complete...
August 30th 2015, 01:08 AM
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shevek
Peasant Netherlands
Never be afraid to ask, but don't demand an answer 
But Who will play it at 7.5???

At this point, I think most players a DMOD gets are from its release announcement, not from its score. There aren't that many people playing anymore, and much less new people coming in looking for what DMOD to play. There are probably some every now and then, but I think a DMOD being released is the biggest reason people get to know about it, and then play it.

That being said, if you want a big audience you shouldn't be making DMODs.
August 30th 2015, 01:14 AM
wizardg.gif
Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Yes, there are a few bugs like that

It was my first time coding ever, forgive me. I thought I caught a bunch of errors like that when I rewrote it, but I guess I missed a few.
August 30th 2015, 01:28 AM
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MsDink
Peasant Female New Zealand
Tag - Umm.. tag, you're it? 
You did great leppy just someone wants things scored only how he sees the dmods - its one persons opinion thats all Moon child was buggy when released, but a great/fantastic first effort dmod and... was that score done before u fixed some bugs or after - scoring often fails to reflect updates and gawd some people update theirs on a weekly basis - i play once i dont go back for every review so why would i/anyone redo a score?
Scoring doesnt mean diddly squat in my opinion - i play them all not just the high scored ones. Come on its DINK for goodness sake
hes treely awesome
August 30th 2015, 01:28 AM
wizardg.gif
Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Well also, when you mention it and hype it up, people are going to play it or replay it. So yeah, keep talking about moon child.

Also brass, I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's so much better now than it once was. It's nice to have a strange dmod like that every once in a while.
August 30th 2015, 01:34 AM
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Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
was that score done before u fixed some bugs or after

The review came out well before I rewrote the scripts for it to remove the sexual content. Scratcher's review is a couple of versions behind. Not sure if his score would be different if he had played the rewritten version or not. I don't really think 7.5 is a bad score though, especially from Scratcher who seems pretty strict with points.
August 30th 2015, 01:34 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
There's another bug, too. I fell through the terrain and couldn't get back. I tried kill in the console, tried restarting, but that ducking autosave put me right back outside the game.

How the hell did you miss that?

I'm using dink 1.06 if that helps.
August 30th 2015, 01:38 AM
wizardg.gif
Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
It's probably because you're using 1.06.

1.06 doesn't run gravity simulation as well as 1.08 or 1.09 and sometimes you'll just fall through. I didn't miss it per say, but it's a 1.06 issue and I can't fix 1.06.
August 30th 2015, 01:55 AM
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You people are right about many things. There is a lot of wisdom to be found on the DN. Also, I respect you all because you genuinely seem good people.

And don't get me wrong, I like "Furball" as well. It's actually not fair to compare maybe. I just felt that if a game gets a high score people will play it because that's how I have approached dmods. I played the highest and lowest ranked dmods. So I felt that if a dmod gets a 9.0, it would get played. If it gets a 7.5.... maybe not.

But I guess Ms. Dink and Shevek are probably right. I've only been on the DN for a few months so I don't understand many things.

I can be an emotional person sometimes, but I never mean any offence to anyone. I have enjoyed sharing in these discussion with you all.

As for making more dmods, it's too late to turn back from my current project. But I mostly love making artwork in GIMP. Maybe the other modders (Leprochaun, etc...) will use some brassweasel artwork in the future which would make me feel honoured.

August 30th 2015, 03:44 AM
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MsDink
Peasant Female New Zealand
Tag - Umm.. tag, you're it? 
Not meaning to dis u brassy one - all i mean is some reviews back then were written by quite young players (13ish -97 yr olds visit here - er im the 97 yr old one heh) and they loved the game they reviewed so therefore they gave a high score - I see a score as more about how much one person enjoyed a game than how good it was - and it takes a lot of different people to get a really good generalised score - just doesnt happen here because the dmods nowdays only get one or two reviews so a realistic average is never actually reached. I find peoples reviews i like and then i know i will like that game too so its a little more than looking at a number i feel.

There is one game you are going on about that you speak really highly of - yet when i played that one i couldnt move far because there was hardness everywhere and it just drove me nuts - Dink to me was wander everywhere u felt like and this game wouldnt allow me that - i felt cheated therefore i wouldnt have rated it as high - you on the other hand may not have minded that and rated it differently, do you see what i mean? Its perspectives and they vary greatly person to person - like reviews. Dont let scores on your games bother you, they are just different peoples perspective and say more about them, their likes and dislikes, how they like a dink game to be rather than the actual craftsmanship of the game and its creator (well thats how i feel anyways )
August 30th 2015, 05:13 AM
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scratcher
Bard
cigarette bonca 
The review came out well before I rewrote the scripts for it to remove the sexual content. Scratcher's review is a couple of versions behind. Not sure if his score would be different if he had played the rewritten version or not. I don't really think 7.5 is a bad score though, especially from Scratcher who seems pretty strict with points.

WHAT, the creepy sexual innuendo with an underage moon princess is gone?! Sorry, it's a 3.5 now.
August 30th 2015, 08:32 AM
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DinkDude95
Peasant Male Australia steam
The guy with the cute D-Mod. 
"That being said, if you want a big audience you shouldn't be making DMODs."

This is why Dink needs a Steam re-release IMO. I seriously want to get back into modding, but I just struggle to justify the effort to myself due to the small audience.

I actually emailed Seth fairly recently regarding this topic, voicing my encouragement for a Steam re-release. His reply was "Noted, thanks for the vote."

But in saying that, who knows the repercussions to this place in that scenario. Things could get pear-shaped quick.
August 30th 2015, 12:39 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
But I don't like pears, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE DINKDUDE! I much prefer apples, preferably sliced.

@Brass, most people here(Including Me) most likely don't care about the score & more care about the details in a review. Do great on the Dmod though, I will try to review if that helps.
August 30th 2015, 03:27 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Noted, thanks for the vote.

It's pretty clear Seth doesn't give a shit. Let's just stop emailing him about it.
August 31st 2015, 02:03 AM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
Yeah i have been trying to get seth to move dink to gog and steam for almost 4 years now , i think hes done with dink for good maybe some of the admins can push dink on their own at least the free dink version or the 1.08 one
August 31st 2015, 02:45 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Yep, making that buggy ass mess Dink HD, asking for bug reports, and then not fixing it really says a lot.
August 31st 2015, 04:23 PM
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Robj
Peasant Male Australia
You feed the madness, and it feeds on you. 
"That being said, if you want a big audience you shouldn't be making DMODs"

±1
Its not worth it anymore. The thought of making a Dmod and wasting a heap of effort for half a dozen ppl to play (if that) just doesn't create even the slightest bit of motivation...
Hell, I doubt I'll even ever finish The Dark Avilan now, which is a real shame... It was Coming along nicely with already 6 hours of gameplay. It just isn't worth the effort anymore I'm afraid.
August 31st 2015, 04:42 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Not even just for yourself or something?
August 31st 2015, 05:09 PM
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Robj, I don't think you should throw all that away! At the very least, slap some ending on there and send it out. Besides, it's possible there are people who play dmods who aren't on the DN. I played several dmods before joining.

But, yeah. It's hard to get motivated to start anything. I'm just going to finish my current project and that's it. What am I going to do with all my scripting knowledge in DinkC?

August 31st 2015, 05:44 PM
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scratcher
Bard
cigarette bonca 
It's not as hopeless as half a dozen people. Those who post on the forum and comment about dmods are only the tip of the iceberg. Redink1 posted some stats a while ago, which confirm that much.

There's no denying that things are slower now than they were in the past, though. But what are we gonna do about it?

Here's my proposition: Someone create a dmod so distasteful and offensive that the social justice warriors will pick up raving about Dink on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr and Kotaku, bringing loads of attention to the game. I'm talking bonca-on-headless-duck necromantic bestiality, rape, graphic aunt ducking, wanton degradation of women and black people, THE WORKS.

Or keep pestering Seth about putting Dink on Steam Greenlight... I dunno.
August 31st 2015, 06:20 PM
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We could have a "most offensive dmod" contest.
August 31st 2015, 07:37 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
I nominate Skurn, Punisher, & someone who can code to do it, it's the perfect pair. Also could we use Simon's 6th world graphics?
August 31st 2015, 10:08 PM
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DinkDude95
Peasant Male Australia steam
The guy with the cute D-Mod. 
"Or keep pestering Seth about putting Dink on Steam Greenlight... I dunno."

I've been thinking about this a bit lately. Honestly, why don't we just do it ourselves? I highly doubt Seth would say no.

As far as I'm aware, it'd be a case of making a Dink Smallwood Steam account to represent the game, forking out the $100 fee, then uploading it, right? I mean, there's the nitty-gritty to sort out, like do we upload Dink HD or just 1.08, do we touch up the original game a little, do we need to update anything in the engine and make a v1.10 or something, but the actual process of submitting it seems very simple, and I doubt it would be hard to get Seth's permission...

At least, if we told him we had plans to do this then I'm sure that'd make him start thinking about it more seriously...?

Thoughts?
August 31st 2015, 10:41 PM
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Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
I don't really make dmods with the intention that I want a lot of people to play them. I generally just have fun playing around in the editor and I enjoy the feeling of putting a whole game together from nothing.
August 31st 2015, 10:49 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
At least, if we told him we had plans to do this then I'm sure that'd make him start thinking about it more seriously...?

That's a good idea. So far, we've gotten absolutely nothing from Seth. He's said that he hasn't put it up because 'no one wants old games' or something like that, but we know that's utter nonsense. Plenty of old games are still sold by companies and not just Valve. It would fit fine. We should go ahead and put it up - if Seth stops us, we finally have our answer. But let's hope it doesn't come to that illogical decision.

As for what version we submit, 1.08 seems alright. We can just have DFArc as Steam's executable, and include various other things in the directory such as a clean, fully functional skeleton that isn't from here (scracter's zeleton is alright, but it's still got its issues), FreeDink and instructions for whoever wants it, and maybe an html file that leads to here.

I am against bringing a lot of attention to the DN itself, but maybe it won't attract too much. Hopefully.

If Seth agrees to our plan, maybe he can fix Dink HD and we can stick that on Steam instead.
September 1st 2015, 01:52 AM
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Striker
Noble United States steam
Daniel, there is a clown. 
Well, I once was working on a dmod where you had to murder a little girl and then her father. It was... pretty dark and depressing.

I think at this point, the only thing that would make the community more than just handful of people would be to release a true sequel on a new engine that has the same simplicity yet flexibility that you find in Dink. I was hoping Seth would do something with Novashell, but it looked far more opaque than Dink, and I don't think he ever released a game complete with assets and source code for it. Had that happened, I think the Dink community would have really taken to it.
September 1st 2015, 09:38 AM
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Quiztis
Peasant Male Sweden steam
Life? What's that? Can I download it?! 
Man, a new Dink 2, fresh with a new everything and a better engine and DinkC+ and imagine if it came up on Steam with workshop and everything dmods everywhere and the community boost i'd love that and keep making mods.

I love Dink, but as people has mentioned, I too think that it is not worth completing DMODs atm.
September 1st 2015, 05:30 PM
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Toof
Peasant Male
I disagree. 
And so it begins... The dusk of dmods, the dawn of Dink 2.
hopefully...
September 1st 2015, 05:35 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
If we upload it on Steam will we finish up stuff like the Icelands & put a reward for the lock-picking thief?
September 1st 2015, 07:25 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
How about this

Dink Smallwood v1.10
-Finish Iceland map and plot
-You can go to the volcano island
-You can find charlie and buy his shitty house
-Invincible tree is the true final boss
September 1st 2015, 11:33 PM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
kosovo je srbija 
I always saw Novashell as how Seth would have made the Dink engine if he had the knowledge back in the 90s of how to do things properly as well as the CPU power.

The main problems with it were a deficiency of documentation along with no libraries available to do simple things like choice menus and other things than were the staple components of Dink. I was considering writing a dink.lua file that would contain a lot of Dinkc commands for Novashell but it just got too difficult.

Anyone can take Dink's graphics and put them into a different engine and make a game out of it though. It would be interesting to have a "DMOD Competition" in which everyone makes something that doesn't use the Dink engine.
September 2nd 2015, 09:30 AM
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SabreTrout
Noble Male United Kingdom
Tigertigertiger. 
Look at the love Mario Maker is getting.

Dink was in many ways a proto-Zelda maker. Seth's going to miss the boat - Shoulda been on a reboot.
September 2nd 2015, 09:34 AM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
@Skurn 1st reply, what if we make the invincible tree, destructible? We could have him, be able to be destroyed by something like the useless firebow & have him lead to something like the Icelands or the "Volcano Island of Doooooom"(C). Also we could add some more secret bosses like some of the original developers of the game or our own gracious king.

@Skurn 2nd reply, Can we make a dmod by writing the story in Notepad & drawing with paint, no other thing whatsoever, also no interactivity.
September 2nd 2015, 09:38 AM
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DinkDude95
Peasant Male Australia steam
The guy with the cute D-Mod. 
"Seth's going to miss the boat - Shoulda been on a reboot."

And if I recall correctly the excuse for no official Dink sequel/reboot was something along the lines of "You guys have used up all the stories, there's none left for me."
September 2nd 2015, 11:12 AM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
I am super happy with the way this discussion is going on you guys.

I think we can all agree that

- completing any more dmods with what current audience we have left is a costly waste of energy, i know some do release their dmods just for fun but others do expect a large number of fans to enjoy them.

- As one of the last places where you can find dink fans we should all work together and push dink forward ourselves, think about it half life fans are pushing series themselves with fan made versions tired of waiting for valve to do anything. If they can get their fan made games of half life on steam so can we.

- Age of empires fans fought and brought back the games alive as HD editions on steam

- A recent shocker which i saw was this http://store.steampowered.com/app/327640/

fans of Caesar III actually are making the exact game on a newer engine and are on steam early access. Heck they even made the game free but you can support them with money by buying the dlc

- I hope all of you dmod makers can get together and collaborate two things for dink smallwood

a) Release a version of dink smallwood / HD / Remastered edition that shows off the game properly packed in with some of best dmods to play with on the workshop

b) Plan and work on a proper sequel maybe we can get a official plot story from seth and develop the sequel based on that , remember how tales of monkey island was done by telltale games.

I really hope we all can agree to something and push dink forward , it is the right time.

I cant imagine the possibility we all can have if DN or seth do get to release the main game on steam, all you dmod makers can actually work on good dmods and release them as paid dlcs / free dlc for the game, this way your work will have some value. Since almost every DMOD is a new story for the base game.
September 2nd 2015, 01:11 PM
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Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Let's push it onto steam. I don't see any harm in that. It may bring about a lot of traffic for a while, but that would probably die down after a few years and in about 5 years we'd probably be in the same position as we are now.

Also, if toast made his standalone dmod player really user friendly that would help a lot. Being able to share dmods with anyone(without having to tell them to download and install the original game first) makes any dink editor a viable game maker which -once known- would create a community less based around dink smallwood, but rather the editor(s) of it. I suppose toast doesn't need to update his player, someone just needs to make an easy-to-install user-friendly player.
September 2nd 2015, 07:51 PM
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DinkDude95
Peasant Male Australia steam
The guy with the cute D-Mod. 
Hmmm, interesting ideas.

At any rate, definitely not submitting Dink to Steam Greenlight without Seth's permission, so I'm still waiting on his reply to hear his thoughts.

But just so you guys know what's involved with Steam submissions:

There's a $100 fee that you have to pay to submit games to Greenlight. It's a one-off "spam deterrent" fee (all the proceeds go to charity), then you can release as many games as you want.

After that, you upload the game along with a square branding image, at least 1 video showing gameplay, at least 4 screenshots or images and a written description.

Then it's simply up to the community to review it and up-vote it. If it compares well to other Greenlight games at the time then it goes up on Steam proper.

But like I said, just waiting on Seth's thought's ATM.

Greenlight FAQ
September 2nd 2015, 08:43 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
But going ahead and doing it would probably get his attention and make him actually make a definitive decision rather than making excuses.
September 2nd 2015, 08:47 PM
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Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
I'd be willing to toss in some money towards the $100 to help get it going.
September 2nd 2015, 08:58 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Same here. At this rate, Seth won't have to spend a dime of his pile of Growtopia cash.
September 2nd 2015, 09:42 PM
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Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
I wonder if he'd sell us the rights to Dink Smallwood.
September 2nd 2015, 09:44 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
With Dink HD available to buy on phones, maybe not. Perhaps we can share the rights, though.
September 3rd 2015, 09:45 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
We must perform a hostile takeover, Seth will probably do it if we make millions from our ideas.

I'd be willing to work on some of the story for a sequel if needed, we all could share our ideas & try to take ideas from each of them.
September 3rd 2015, 10:16 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Didn't Seth say he's got everything planned out already for a sequel but hasn't actually made the game yet?

Of course, that could just be a load of bullshit, but maybe it isn't.
September 4th 2015, 09:39 AM
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shevek
Peasant Netherlands
Never be afraid to ask, but don't demand an answer 
I wonder if he'd sell us the rights to Dink Smallwood.

He released it as free and open source software. There aren't many rights left to sell. Everyone is allowed to do anything with it, except restricting those rights for people you give or sell the game to.

I have no experience with Steam, so even that may be too much of a limitation to put it there without Seth's permission.

One last thing: if anyone is going to do this, please use Freedink. 1.08 is full of bugs that are fixed in Freedink. It also expands the audience to people who don't use Windows. If the lack of some sounds bothers you, you can copy the sounds from 1.08 (but note that the reason they were removed in Freedink was that their copyright didn't allow them to be there, I think, so this may not be a good idea; also, they wouldn't be allowed with 1.08 either if that is the case).
September 4th 2015, 11:01 AM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Is there a way we can restrict the open source?
September 4th 2015, 11:47 AM
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metatarasal
Bard Male Netherlands
I object 
Why on earth would anybody want to do such a thing.

Also, probably not if the source code is released with a copyleft license.
September 4th 2015, 12:47 PM
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Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
One last thing: if anyone is going to do this, please use Freedink

We could do that. We could also release your editor and player. Unless you use freedink for pydink. It doesn't seem like you would though.
September 4th 2015, 03:48 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Couldn't we release multiple versions?
September 4th 2015, 04:04 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
One last thing: if anyone is going to do this, please use Freedink

Duck no. 1.08 is fine, and we can include freedink and instructions.

But, really, I think it would be best to make a 1.10 or something. Can we fix Dink HD ourselves? Or just upgrade 1.08 to be like Dink HD, but without the massive list of bugs it causes in various games for no reason?
September 4th 2015, 05:17 PM
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Seth
Peasant Male Japan
 
"Yep, making that buggy ass mess Dink HD, asking for bug reports, and then not fixing it really says a lot."

Hmm, haven't got a bug report in like four years actually. What's broken in Dink HD that isn't the DMODS's fault?
September 4th 2015, 05:21 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Hmm, haven't got a bug report in like four years actually. What's broken in Dink HD that isn't the DMODS's fault?

4 years already? I don't actually remember any bugs being fixed, but how could it be a dmod's fault?
September 4th 2015, 05:28 PM
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Seth
Peasant Male Japan
 
Yeah, after getting two Dink/Steam related emails in the same week I should've known it came from a thread here.

In my opinion, getting something like Dink released on Steam just wouldn't be the panacea of popularity some imagine.

These days everybody's game and its brother is being released there, and without major modifications to Dink I sincerely doubt it would get much traction and and would only fragment the Dink community into yet another forum/site to gather dust.

Speaking of fragmented, Dink 1.08/Dink HD/Freedink/Dink Edit/WinDinkEdit, DinkEdit++ etc, everything is a bit confusing in general in the dinkaverse.
September 4th 2015, 05:34 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
I don't think any of us expect it to be super popular, but plenty of old games are released there and people do play them.
September 4th 2015, 05:35 PM
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Seth
Peasant Male Japan
 
4 years already? I don't actually remember any bugs being fixed, but how could it be a dmod's fault?

Well, if a complaint was "this crashes in Dink HD but not the original Dink, but it's because the DMOD did this wrong..." than that might be an example where fixing the engine makes less sense than fixing the DMOD. I know I specifically recreated some buggy behavior in Dink HD just so certain DMODs would work, but it's very ugly to do that.
September 4th 2015, 05:38 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 

Well, if a complaint was "this crashes in Dink HD but not the original Dink, but it's because the DMOD did this wrong..." than that might be an example where fixing the engine makes less sense than fixing the DMOD.


That is pretty much the complaint I think. Loads of dmods have bugs only in Dink HD. Why not just retain 1.08's code?
September 4th 2015, 05:46 PM
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Seth
Peasant Male Japan
 
That is pretty much the complaint I think. Loads of dmods have bugs only in Dink HD. Why not just retain 1.08's code?

It is built off of 1.08, and fixed major bugs that were in 1.08. That's probably the source of some of the compatibility issues.
September 4th 2015, 05:49 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Is there a list of bugs fixed in HD?
September 4th 2015, 08:11 PM
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DackFIght
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
@oh most glorious, wonderful, other stuff that might make you like us, Seth, would you allow us permission to upload it on Steam ourselves? We'd do everything ourselves so you don't need to spend a dime, but maybe a few nickels of time.
September 4th 2015, 11:12 PM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
Thanks for replying here seth , could we at least try to put a version of dink smallwood HD on steam greenlight to see how much popularity the game has still ?

All i am saying lets get dink smallwood HD greenlit first once done we could practically put in any version , sequel , workshop mods and what not

I am sure once we nail down which version of dink we are going with the dmods can be fixed.

I have added dink smallwood before to steam as a non steam game out of the 3 versions aka 1.08, freedink, HD , dink smallwood HD worked pretty well with steam, features such as the chat, screenshot was working right out of the box.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/liquidsnakehpks/screenshots/?appid=sc_35673&sort=newestfirst&browsefilter=myfiles&view=imagewall

September 4th 2015, 11:19 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
I vote Dink v1.08 and Freedink included in a rar or something for the 2 people on Steam who want to use a broken linux version.
September 4th 2015, 11:28 PM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
haha lol , i am pretty sure anything could be included along with the game as extras , i would love to have that original dink smallwood intro video as a extra as well, along with images of the dink smallwood cd cover.

but apart from that seriously we can even have a paid enhanced version of the game which is much more complete.

Again i am going to take a example from greenlight to show how it has worked
1) we had black mesa source (fan made source port of the first half life game) which is free to anyone being made outside of steam

2) They put the free version on steam greenlight and it was one of the first games to get greenlit.

3) After they got a solid base of supporters for a more complete version polished version of the game they released a paid version of the mod in early access http://store.steampowered.com/app/362890 and its a sweet hit, the half life fans are happy and so are the creators of the mod who have worked hard on this.

I think seth deserves to have a enhanced more complete version of dink smallwood with steamworks that costs something on steam. Dink smallwood going freeware back in those days was something of a revolution.
September 4th 2015, 11:43 PM
girl.gif
Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Dink v1.08, Freedink, and Pokemon: Bible Version to let steam users discover the best we have to offer right from the start.
September 5th 2015, 01:02 AM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
kosovo je srbija 
Hi Seth thanks for making Dink.
September 5th 2015, 03:46 AM
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DinkDude95
Peasant Male Australia steam
The guy with the cute D-Mod. 
"Speaking of fragmented, Dink 1.08/Dink HD/Freedink/Dink Edit/WinDinkEdit, DinkEdit++ etc, everything is a bit confusing in general in the dinkaverse."

This is so true. That's what happens when a game has been freeware/open source for 10+ years, though.

"Thanks for replying here seth , could we at least try to put a version of dink smallwood HD on steam greenlight to see how much popularity the game has still ?"

I think the main argument with Dink on Steam though is "What's the harm?". Maybe not a single person will download it from Steam and it'll get buried under Greenlight for eternity. And what's it cost us? $100, split five ways? Understandably (although it is freeware/open source) Seth is still our Lord and Master and his iron fisted rule will guide us, but all of us will just say "What's the harm in putting it up there anyway?".

Arguing about what version and what D-Mod Manager to use is irrelevant at this stage, all anyone wants (I think) is a good reason as to why it shouldn't go on Greenlight.
September 5th 2015, 03:52 AM
girl.gif
Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
100 dollars 5 ways? Who else is in on this?

Let's split it more. Let's all chip in 12 cents.
September 5th 2015, 02:28 PM
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DackFIght
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
@Skurn, I don't think we have that many people still lurking to even chip in a dollar each & reach the goal. We could get Rob to perform Dink Style magic tricks to garner fans for Dink. Also could any bad thing happen if we go against Seth's wishes?
September 5th 2015, 03:02 PM
girl.gif
Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Seth implied no because nobody will get it/vote for it. Again, not true. I'm sure there are people out there who will go through the list and say "Holy shit, Dink Smallwood? This game? From 97? Finally!"
September 5th 2015, 07:09 PM
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DackFIght
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Is voting too mainstream or not? If not, we'd have the hipster crowd & guarantees the vote.
September 5th 2015, 07:30 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
It's not that it's too mainstream, it's just absolutely pointless in the US.

Are we suddenly changing the topic to politics? Because it wouldn't surprise me.
September 5th 2015, 10:21 PM
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DackFIght
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Well we have to make sure that we get some good voters, if we don't have anyone, but us on our side, odds are we'll lose. Also how many votes are needed to get past a green-light? Also can we play "Red light, Green Light" now?
September 5th 2015, 10:59 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Seriously, the worst shit ever gets greenlit there. RPG Maker games with default assets and bland maps get voted on for duck's sake. Why not Dink?
September 6th 2015, 11:03 AM
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DackFIght
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Because people would be afraid of the masterpiece's like "Pokemon: Bible Version" & "ABC" they think they can't handle it while holding onto their sanity & cookies.
September 7th 2015, 07:55 PM
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Seth
Peasant Male Japan
 
Well, the main reasons why I couldn't let you guys put my stuff on steam (at least not under the name Dink Smallwood, which is copyrighted by me and can't be used as a condition of the source code release) are:

* The person doing it needs to be a legal entity responsible for handling complaints and issues like copyright infringement, etc (games with addons especially deal with this. What if someone makes a DMOD "Dink genocide and super rape" and posts it in the forums there and stuff? The community here is probably pretty well behaved and tame compared to what you'd get.

* If any mistakes are made or support isn't given, or the build is broken on 50% of the platforms, it reflects back to me and my company in a probably negative way (why did he let that happen?!!)

* Even if it does get Greenlit (no guarantee of this, although it seems pretty easy these days) you still need a programmer or whoever to package it for Steam and also do updates, and hopefully fix bugs. This is a big job and not one that can be done by normal players. Languishing for an eternity because nobody could do the rel work after being greenlit would be worse than being greenlit at all. The $100 fee to submit it is the least of my worries here.

I like Dink and I am not interested in making any more money from it honestly, I don't think it should be sold on desktops. Maybe it's time to make it free on iOS/Android too. I would like it to be available to everybody and the DMODS super easy to run.

I don't like freedink because it's GPL, which infects the code in such a way that it cannot be used with closed source code which can cause any number of headaches with many libraries. This is why I didn't use any pieces of it or its translations for the iOS/Android port.

I don't like the original 1.08 because it's DirectDraw, non-portable to other platforms, and will probably stop working at some point, and doesn't work at all with mobiles.

I would be willing to open source the HD GL/GLES version with some kind of license that makes sure it will never be GPLed - but I don't think there any programmers out there willing to take that on as a project or could even get it to compile. Am I wrong? Any C++/Proton SDK capable volunteers out there? It would be possible to also curate the .php file it reads the DMOD lists from so new DMODS can be added automatically on the "Install DMOD" menu from inside the game. The nice thing about this is it makes iOS/Android versions able to easily install DMODs too.

On the other hand, if someone decided "I want to put the existing open sourced version on steam (freedink/1.08), but not as Dink Smallwood, but another name" then I think that would be ok, as it avoids the problem with it reflecting bad on RTsoft when/if it is botched. Called "freedink" or 'communitydink" but not Dink Smallwood. But even more fragmentation and confusion.

I think the HD version that runs everywhere (don't underestimate the reach mobile can have, especially if it's made free) is probably the best way forward. I don't think the Steam part matters that much if the overall vision is achieved: One version that works everywhere on every device, that has an "official" group managing it.

Anyway, I don't know if any of that is possible, just spewing out thoughts here.
September 7th 2015, 08:20 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
* The person doing it needs to be a legal entity responsible for handling complaints and issues like copyright infringement, etc (games with addons especially deal with this. What if someone makes a DMOD "Dink genocide and super rape" and posts it in the forums there and stuff? The community here is probably pretty well behaved and tame compared to what you'd get.

We should be able to avoid copyright issues since it would be midi only. Even so, if there's anyone throwing loads of copyrighted music in there somewhere or calls it "Dink genocide and super rape", we just...remove it. That, or Valve will or not even allow it anyways. I'm not sure how it works, but I don't think there's going to be much upkeep with a Dink workshop. Might just need to delete some things from time to time.

As for the updating, there are definitely people here who can handle it. Releasing a "steam-version" of 1.08 or whatever should be fine. It's not like it randomly crashes for no reason or something. Now, if there are issues with windows 8, 8.1 or 10, that's Microsoft's fault and the people using bad software. They should revert to 7.

I would be willing to open source the HD GL/GLES version with some kind of license that makes sure it will never be GPLed - but I don't think there any programmers out there willing to take that on as a project or could even get it to compile. Am I wrong? Any C++/Proton SDK capable volunteers out there?

Some c++ programmers have joined, probably because DinkC is so similar.
September 7th 2015, 09:49 PM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
yeah i knew these complexity existed seth , well since dink smallwood HD is all ready to go on the modern system, cant rtsoft put it on steam greenlight , i am sure the community can help out in any other way.

All we want is a good edition of dink smallwood be out there specially in this age where the old classics are getting a huge comeback.

I am sure most of the community agrees that having rtsoft officially launch dink HD /sequel on the modern platforms / community backing it up with dmods is the best way forward.

I honestly think dink still has that charm , why the other day i was just bored out with the normal games that were on my psp and decided to fire up dink psp version and the train journey went very quickly.

The other day a 10 year old cousin of my saw me playing dink and asked about it , he tried out the game and loved it he was pretty much shocked with how easy the game was to learn[this coming from a kid who plays cod on the consoles and pokemon on the 3ds], it is pretty nostalgic considering i was around the same age back in 2000 when i discovered dink, This game never ages.

Also seth what are the chances that dink hd runs on sony platforms like ps3 , ps4 , ps vita ? i heard sony is very open to supporting indie devs.

I only mentioned a small paid version because most platforms impose limitations on free 2 play released i am not exactly sure what are those limits the one i recall is not allowing trading card drops on steam.
(Trading card drops is a easy way to showcase some of dink's old art style chars at the same time the steam customers love it and most of all seth/rtsoft gets a cut on each card sold).

Honestly seth i think you deserve at least 0.99$ for this masterpiece.

I have no idea though if packaging a game for steamworks is hard or not, seth you could also try putting your other games on steam as well like that growtopia which would fit in nicely as well on steam.

I am really happy that we are at least discussing this out here.
September 8th 2015, 12:51 AM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
kosovo je srbija 
In terms of bug reports, we've started a minor list of mods that won't work properly in 1.09 and the problems they have. It's far from complete and it's not particularly exhaustive, however.

There are also a few minor ones like MIDIs not playing properly which has been reported on the RTSoft forums.

There's also a major bug that shows itself in the Blackjack script that completely locks up the engine requiring one to delete their saved state in order to continue.

The whole Steam thing sounds like it would be a nightmare in terms of legality and financing to get up and running. I wouldn't want to participate and I also don't know C++ (although I could probably get it to compile if I tried hard enough).

Also while you're here Seth, would you ever consider selling/licensing the 3D models from the original game? Do you still have them all?
September 8th 2015, 01:01 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Didn't we figure out Justin still has the rights to all the models?
September 8th 2015, 03:46 AM
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Seth
Peasant Male Japan
 
Thanks, that wiki link has some great info, why am I only seeing that now?? Bookmarked.

As far as models, I know I have a few, but they are high poly and use a really old version of 3d studio.

I did get the duck model working well enough to export a 3d version that was used in Teenage Lawnmower (you could mod the duck's head off in true 3d!) but .. that was using 3DS 9 (this is a $2000+ piece of software) and now even that is like 10 years old and probably won't even run under windows 10 or something. Dunno how useful the characters would be, probably easier to re-model them onto a modern bone-based skeleton.
September 8th 2015, 04:14 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
There must be some way to get the software to work on modern operating systems.

You sure new versions of it can't read them? That would be pretty shitty if they dropped support for a format/didn't have some form of backwards compatibility for it in newer versions.

Remaking them from scratch doesn't seem like it would be something your team would want to do just to give them to us to do...something with.
September 8th 2015, 07:37 AM
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Beuc
Peasant Male France
 
Hey all,

FYI I'm putting finishing touches on a new "DinkGL" renderer in FreeDink, which will make it run smoothly everywhere (including D-Mods that use palette effects).

Wrt Steam I don't have a strong opinion.

I don't like freedink because it's GPL, which infects the code in such a way that it cannot be used with closed source code which can cause any number of headaches with many libraries.

The GNU FreeDink contributors and I used the GPL so it would remain free / open source for the community, and not closed as it painfully was in the past (or still now if you count the HD version)
Also I think it's a good thing that we don't tie our hands with new proprietary libraries.

Cheers!
September 8th 2015, 10:46 AM
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DinkDude95
Peasant Male Australia steam
The guy with the cute D-Mod. 
Yeah, that's a real solid explanation, Seth. That definitely clears your thoughts up on the whole situation, thanks for that.

"I like Dink and I am not interested in making any more money from it honestly, I don't think it should be sold on desktops. Maybe it's time to make it free on iOS/Android too. I would like it to be available to everybody and the DMODS super easy to run."

I purchased the iOS version literally 3 days ago. If you make it free I demand a refund.
September 8th 2015, 11:10 AM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
kosovo je srbija 
> As far as models, I know I have a few, but they are high poly and use a really old version of 3d studio.
>There must be some way to get the software to work on modern operating systems.

I did some research and it seems the .3ds/.prj file format (assuming that's what they're saved in) hasn't really changed since the 90s so they should still all work fine. There's also a freeware student edition of 3ds Max available to people with a .edu email address in case one cannot use a converter like this one to change them into something else more palatable.

It's good to know the duck and some of the characters are safe and well, but do you have any for the terrain or the houses by any chance? I'm just sort of interested in what's still around.

>Didn't we figure out Justin still has the rights to all the models?

That was my assumption based upon historical information regarding the 50/50 split of Dink. Things may have changed since '98, but I assume that Justin Martin has all of the original graphics he made (including the non-3d ones like the king) since he was apparently the one who re-rendered the title screen for iPhone Dink (although I may be wrong).
September 8th 2015, 04:38 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
The stash must be raided.
September 8th 2015, 07:44 PM
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Seth
Peasant Male Japan
 
Beuc,

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree about GPL.

GPL restrictions:

Ever want to try an Oculus Rift or some new controller with a special driver with Dink? Can't. What if you want to use FMOD audio with the iOS port because it does the best job with MIDI? Nope.

How about legally run it on a 3DS, Vita, XBox or Playstation? Impossible. It's even questionable if GPL software can ever be legally released on an iPhone at all. GPL v3 definitely isn't. You may think "ha, I hate apple anyway!" but tons of players use these devices.

The original Dink 1.07/1.08 source (and HD source if I also open source that under a license similar to say, the Proton SDK license) *can* be legally used all those places as well as any unforeseen libraries/hardware that come out in the future.

GPL is great for a lot of things (os utilities/apps especially), but games that need to be flexible about the future.. egh, no game devs I know will touch anything GPL with a ten foot pole lest their entire project be tainted.

That said, I really appreciate all the work you've done to get Dink out there to masses and played by more people.

I could tweak HD and open source it, but one thing I can't do is get access to the translations, which of course was one of the main reasons I open sourced it. Guess I learned my lesson, zlib free is a bad idea, won't be doing that again.

Question for the community: Are any Dink translators still out there who would be willing to donate a translation they did under a different license so it could be used by anyone and truly be available to everybody?
September 8th 2015, 07:46 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
How about legally run it on a 3DS, Vita, XBox or Playstation? Impossible.

I think DinkDoodler got it running on 3DS actually. Maybe PS2, though that picture didn't look real. And we have a probably outdated PSP version that might be able to work on the 1000 or 2000 since the 3000 sucks and has better firmware against emulators.
September 8th 2015, 10:54 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
And another thing, Seth. How do you pronounce Milder?

I go with mile dur. Then he can have a relative called Spicier.
September 8th 2015, 11:08 PM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
kosovo je srbija 
Yes Seth please tell us how you pronounce "Milder Flatstomp"? Is it like "miller" or is it more like "mile"? This is very important for us to know.
September 9th 2015, 10:26 AM
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Seth
Peasant Male Japan
 
I always pronounced it like mill-dir. (like miller directory) We can each have our own pronouncation though, as this game had no spoken dialog. Well, unless you count that girl's scream. Or dink's "ugh" when he gets hit. (that's my voice btw! Dink I mean, not the girl)
September 9th 2015, 10:46 AM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
kosovo je srbija 
Thanks for clearing that up. Did you ever have a plan to make a "talkie" release of Dink with full voice acting at any point?
September 9th 2015, 02:28 PM
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I think what DinkHD really needs the most is some kind of a legacy mode (kind of like FreeDink has) where it can correctly play DMODs that use bugs from the older engines. Either that, or we need to go through and update all the broken DMODs and remove the bugs. I wouldn't quite know where to start in either case, but the former sounds quite a bit easier if there is someone skilled enough to do it.

If DMOD's are included in a .php file then perhaps it could automatically set legacy mode on/off depending on the DMOD's setting, that way the player never even has to think about whether to enable legacy mode. That would mean we'd need to go through and make sure we know all the DMOD's that have trouble running in DinkHD, though.

And really, the whole DMOD playing problems is really the only big issue I remember having with DinkHD. Although now that I think about it, does it support any kind of media files like .mp3 or .ogg? That would be a good thing to add if at all possible while keeping it's mobile support. I need to redownload DinkHD and make sure it works on my new Windows 8 computer though. Unfortunately Dink 1.08 Aural+ goes very slowly and even Freedink stutters a bit on it.

I definitely think Dink should remain free for all time at this point. With how old it is, I don't think anyone is going to want to pay money for anything we make. And as soon as they see a price tag they may not even want to check the game out in the first place. I guess if a person wants to they can make their DMOD 99 cents or something, but then probably nobody is going to play their mod.

-

I'll keep saying Mile-dur.
September 9th 2015, 04:21 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Or dink's "ugh" when he gets hit. (that's my voice btw! Dink I mean, not the girl)

Oh man, we're going to need more behind the scenes stuff. Is the grass based off your lawn at the time?
September 9th 2015, 05:00 PM
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Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Or dink's "ugh" when he gets hit. (that's my voice btw! Dink I mean, not the girl)

I was trying to record some new grunt sounds for dink a while back. Never ended up recording one I liked. Voice acting is tough. I'll probably try doing some more voice acting again. I did at least voice the introduction lines Death has is the dmod I'm working on because I wanted a voiced introduction. I'm tempted to voice all his lines, but I'm trying to consider file size and I don't want it to be painfully massive.
September 9th 2015, 07:28 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Why not get one of us to voice the intro, some of us would want to have our voices immortalised. Skurn would make a perfect Death, anything he says would make you so insane you'd want to be dead.
September 9th 2015, 07:31 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
I also have a super secret formula for making evil voices.
September 9th 2015, 11:53 PM
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Leprochaun
Peasant Male Japan xbox steam
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Why not get one of us to voice the intro

The only character with lines right now is Death. He may end up being the only character in the game with any lines actually.
September 10th 2015, 05:50 PM
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DackFight
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
Are there any scenes with background noises? If there's a cave with a side-quest there might be some screaming(more or less) & a bar would be good to have some hidden message whispers, also it could give a clue to a puzzle if needed.
September 11th 2015, 08:25 PM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
So apart from deciding which version to put on steam , everything else is ok for greenlight ?

looking at postal 2 , they have completely changed versions from what first was shown in greenlight
September 11th 2015, 08:30 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Come onnnnn, Seth. Then I can list Dink as the related game on the group. It'll be more complete and stuff.

Side note, though I guess it's pretty important - Dink v1.08 flashes for me in full screen. I dunno if it's the monitor being way too above Dink's own resolution and having to be stretched or if it's the OS itself but I'm sure the good folks over at a-place-where-graphics-are-somehow-the-most-important-thing-ever#PCMasterRace won't be too welcoming to their super expensive 4k monitor flashing at them.

Why do people get those anyways besides to orgasm every time they start up a game?
September 13th 2015, 05:06 AM
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Skull
Peasant Male Finland
"I'd like to be a tree..." 
Look at the love Mario Maker is getting.

Dink was in many ways a proto-Zelda maker. Seth's going to miss the boat - Shoulda been on a reboot.


I kinda agree at times like this with Mario Maker and everything, had Dink been updated a bit graphically, the editor been even more simplified, and then the whole thing marketed correctly, it could've brought a fairly large number of new fans. Of course not as much as a "Zelda Maker" would, but it could still be successful enough.

Then again, I'm also kinda speaking against myself here, cause whenever I see Mario Maker, I'm not that impressed. I mostly see something that should've existed in a more primitive form 20 years ago.
September 13th 2015, 06:01 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Dink is absolutely nothing like zelda at all and should stop being compared to it.
September 13th 2015, 09:40 AM
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DackFIght
Peasant Male United States
Making Topics off-track faster then you can say it 
How can you not see the similarities between Dink & Link!?

Also it seems like we'll need some people to be a tech support then if we put it on Steam. Using this site seems a little iffy if we get an influx of people & it seems like we'd need some kind of way to regulate any Dmoding because of what Seth said.
September 13th 2015, 10:36 AM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
I think supporting the game is pretty easy on steam.

Again i am taking the example of what they did with age of empires 2 and duke nukem 3d on steam.
" well known modders of the game were appointed as moderators by the devs so that they could interact with players and help out"

If we are going with dink smallwood HD i am sure seth can support it in the same way hes supporting the android and ios versions already.
September 21st 2015, 01:46 AM
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kenji720rs
Peasant Male Australia
👾~ #беспл 
Trying to market an eighteen year old game to a newer and younger PC user is seemingly pointless,

The desire some people on here have to try and push Dink Smallwood and create a larger fan base confuses me, All though I think it would be great to see The Dink Network with new active contributors that are bringing creative Dmods on a frequent basis much like what used to happen on here. It can't happen, there is only so much you can do to create exposure and interest in a dated game.

The mobile version of the game on the other hand, has the ability to increase the community for sure though.

And of course, I don't think many of us are going to ditch this place anytime soon. We can only hope for others to discover Dink and feel the same passion for it as all of us do and let the community grow at it's own pace. And really if you think about how many people have joined in the last 3 years and over time became regular users of the site? Not bad for a game approaching it's 20th birthday. I swear man, Dink Smallwood is the ultimate cult game. Point blank
September 21st 2015, 02:24 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck
i like pie 
Trying to market an eighteen year old game to a newer and younger PC user is seemingly pointless,

Gog.

The desire some people on here have to try and push Dink Smallwood and create a larger fan base confuses me

Yeah, I don't really get that either, but I would like for it to be on Steam for my nefarious purposes...and because it should be there. Just think of all the things we could accomplish when we infiltrate Gaben's lair.
December 26th 2015, 10:50 PM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
Sigh another year passes by without making any progress on dink smallwood being released elsewhere

meanwhile odd old games continue to be greenlit and release

-> keen dreams yes the lost episode got greenlight and was released by a 3rd party

December 28th 2015, 11:13 PM
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Spinnerweb
Peasant Male Pakistan steam
Scream Aim Fire 
Speaking of which, where the heck are Pap and Justin? Their current whereabouts are as shrouded in mystery as that of the Black Sabbath album woman.

Maybe they'll secretly release Dink on Steam aaaahahahahahaha.