The Dink Network

I find this very interesting...
Warning Sign.

The people responsible for burying the nuclear waste in the yucca mountain complex here in the USA are having a serious problem. The waste will be dangerous for the next 10,000 and the rock is stable enough geologically to be trusted not to move. However what if future civilizations cant understand the danger and accidentally uncover it?

Some of the comments at the bottom by readers are really funny;

"This is high up on my DI scale. I think it's very nobel that the people behind this have the foresight to warn a culture existing thousands of years from now.

I think I like the landscape of thorns idea, but I can just picture stupid college students from the 6013 A.D. having drinking parties there. After that, it's only a matter of time before they try to break into the waste storage area looking for more booze. "

Its really pretty funny to think that people so far advanced in the future wouldnt understand that the area is dangerous. Unless of course humanity de-evolves into tribal societys that cant maintain a historical record. In that case they wont have the tools necessary to dig up the stuff so its no problem then.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

We'd have to have totally forgotten the English language, which I don't see as likely. Of course there is always the issue of whether we'll even survive that long.

I like it how DN's swear filter made 'dang interesting' of that URL.

But yeah, it IS a problem, and it's still not fixed even, because Nuclear energy is still being used.

Yes, that's cool.

What's even creepier, is that it forwards to the correct site.

I don't think it's possible for the English language to be forgotten. Possibly when the sun explodes in like 4 billion years... There are 300 million people in the U.S. and lets assume that 90% of the population can speak English. So 270 million people in the U.S. speak english. Then about 15% of the rest of the world speak English, so about another 640 million people speak English. Overall, about 910 million speak English. With the growing population of Earth, many many more people will learn English. In a few millenia, The population will get to over 7 billion (current about 6.4 billion) maybe tens of millenia. And the amount of English speakers will hit over 1 billion. So until the sun explodes and takes Mercury, Venus, Earth, and possibly Mars with it, the English Language will never die.

(Took so long to research and write, about 15 min... )

But the English language can change. Compare medieval English with today's English. There's only 500-1000 years between those. What could happen in 10000 years? Nobody knows.

English will not be forgotten, but it will change.

I never thought of that...

But the English language can change. Compare medieval English with today's English. There's only 500-1000 years between those. What could happen in 10000 years? Nobody knows.

English will not be forgotten, but it will change.

Good point. As a writer I have made a informal study of this - and will do formal study of it at university over the next ten years (I want to get a PhD in English) - and know exactly what you're talking about.

This isn't even a problem.

If you want to build a mine, the first thing you do is you make exploration holes first. And then you analyze the samples. If your core sample glowing, you don't send people down there. Done.

And if you think that they are going to be mining the earth anymore in 10k years, you are sadly mistaken. Either we will be going down many hundreds of kilometers, or we will have asteroid mining crap. The earth will be pretty much mined out by then anyway.

Maybe we'll have the technology to fix the whole radiation problem anyway. Maybe we can turn radioactive substances into non-radioactive substances by then. I consider that to be highly likely.

I mean if you'd tell someone 2000 years ago that I can communicate with someone on the other side of the world in a fraction of a second and that people have stood on the moon they would probably not believe me. And that's just 2000 years ago, imagine what would happen 10000 years from now...

Maybe, metatarasal, maybe... But this is a topic where it is extremely dangerous to gamble that we will have that technology.

Actually, Mideval English isn't that different from current English, probably less than 200 different words. So 10k years from now, it will be different, but not that different.

I don't think it's that big a deal really. Conceal it in a desolated place, don't especially try to hide it, and stamp warning labels on it. Even if they didn't understand at first, what the warnings say should become pretty obvious after a few people died.

Ya, I don't think people 10,000 years frome now will be stupid enough to go near that area. Humans gained intellegence over the last millenia, so in 10 millenia, humans theoreticly will be smarter than humans now.

This is in English, and its from one of the more popular Middle-English texts, and was only written like 800 years ago or so.

Whilom, as olde stories tellen us,
Ther was a duc that highte theseus;
Of atthenes he was lord and governour,
And in his tyme swich a conquerour,
That gretter was ther noon under the sonne.
Ful many a riche contree hadde he wonne;
What with his wysdom and his chivalrie,
He conquered al the regne of femenye,
That whilom was ycleped scithia,
And weddede the queene ypolita,
And broghte hire hoom with hym in his contree
With muchel glorie and greet solempnytee,
And eek hir yonge suster emelye.
And thus with victorie and with melodye
Lete I this noble duc to atthenes ryde,
And al his hoost in armes hym bisyde.
And certes, if it nere to long to heere,
I wolde have toold yow fully the manere
How wonnen was the regne of femenye
By theseus and by his chivalrye;
And of the grete bataille for the nones
Bitwixen atthenes and amazones;

...Nevermind then...but some words are spelled a bit different then they are now but they still mean the same thing. Ex. olde=old tyme=time etc.

In a few millenia, The population will get to over 7 billion (current about 6.4 billion) maybe tens of millenia.
A few millenia?? Just think that in 1970, the world's population was about a half from the current population.

I think we'll make 7 billion in less than 15 years.

Well, it's hard to say. Lately in the western civilization, the population is decreasing. Ofcourse, Africa counters that heavily, and in India the population is increasing rapidly also, but it might change in a couple of hundred years or so.

What makes you think humans will exist 10,000 years from now?
I agree humans gained intelligence over the last millenia, but they didn't gained wishdom at all. We're about to destroy this planet, but most people can't see this. In less than 50 years, we'll remain without any oil, but few people can see this too.

The biggest danger is in the oceans. Several countries have already dumped radiocactive waste there using the ' out of our sight, out of our minds' policy. We can get away with a fair bit of crap on land, but it the oceans die, no more O2 for breathable air.
Personlaly, I think life will evolve to tolerate radioactive material, but it would still make sense to hold our governments accountable for it policies, and not let them dump it onto the next administration. Its easy actually. No nuclear reactors should ever be built unless they can burn to depletion. HEY!, why does the US and Russia send radioactive material to other countries like Canada to burn to depletion??? Thinking ahead costs much less that hindsight.
BTW, styrofoam cups last even longer than plutonium.

Ya, the population in 1970 was 3.7 billion. 36 years later...6.4 billion, another 2.7 billion. So yeah, in about 15 years, it will be over 7 billion. My calculations were incorrect because I never looked up the population of like 30 years ago...

So...the English speaking population will get over 1 billion in the next century.

Math is fun.

When I was 2 years old, I was 35 inches tall. When I was 4 years old, I was 40 inches tall. So... 5 inches every two years, lets ignore the height I was when I was born. That means I should have been 8 feet 4 inches tall when I was 20 years old, and I should be 16 feet 8 inches tall when I'm 40 years old!

Granted, the population will probably increase to over 7 billion in the next 15 years, but you can't extrapolate that from two data points.

Ya, that's what I said.

Lately in the western civilization, the population is decreasing

No. It's population growth that is decreasing in the western world, not population.

I admit I didn't check it, but I know that at least some countries have an absolute population decrease. The Netherlands, for example.

Math is fun.

When I was 2 years old, I was 35 inches tall. When I was 4 years old, I was 40 inches tall. So... 5 inches every two years, lets ignore the height I was when I was born. That means I should have been 8 feet 4 inches tall when I was 20 years old, and I should be 16 feet 8 inches tall when I'm 40 years old!

Granted, the population will probably increase to over 7 billion in the next 15 years, but you can't extrapolate that from two data points.

Indeed. You might as well try to predict what side a coin will land on every time of a thousand tosses as try to guess population growth and numbers of the future. You'll have just as little chance of success.

I admit I didn't check it, but I know that at least some countries have an absolute population decrease. The Netherlands, for example.

Well, I'll admit their may be some countries, but in general it's population growth that is decreasing in the west, not population numbers. I know this because two of my university papers covered it, Bridging the Social Sciences as part of the paper's theme and Communication Skills in a writing task on a extraction from a essay on the issue.

Um... no. If you had more data points (say one a year) you could do some Calculus to fairly accurately predict population growth, at least over the next few years.

That means I should have been 8 feet 4 inches tall when I was 20 years old, and I should be 16 feet 8 inches tall when I'm 40 years old!

You forget that most men stop getting taller around 21. Plus you don't grow exactly the same height every year. Plus around 13-14, you sprout up at some point...and most men don't grow over 6'6". Most men are shorter...

The only way it would be even remotly possible is if you were dumped into radioactive toxic waste and it transformed you into a giant. But that isn't even possible except in Sci-Fi

The Netherlands actually have still a growing population. A decrease in population is predicted.

Um... no. If you had more data points (say one a year) you could do some Calculus to fairly accurately predict population growth, at least over the next few years.

So calculus allows you to predict something that is not consistent? When you get right down to it population growth depends on the attitude of people not mathematics. Mathematical formulas cannot help to predict what attitude the people of the future will have. Looking at current education and the philosophies of those around children can help with that, but not that's only for the immediate future. Population growth depends on how people view contraceptions, sex, reproductions, kids, when they want kids, and mores. That is why mathematics can only get it right or even close through luck rather than because it is a reliable way of predicting population growth.

The Netherlands actually have still a growing population. A decrease in population is predicted.

Im curious... what is that prediction based upon?

DD sayeth: but not that's only for the immediate future.

redink1 sayeth: at least over the next few years.

Of course, we can never get it right on the person, but give or take a few hundred million, we can come very close.

Mathematicians make several models for population growth. Cases in which people get more children, less children, and some other variants. For this, they use the data of the past 100 years or so, and for the next 10 years the graphs of these models are almost the same. Given the data for the next 10 years, they can see which of the original models comes closest, and base new models around that. Again, a minimum variant, a maximum variant, and some in between.

The fact that immigration extrapolations won't make up the birth deficit shortfall extrapolations.

More countries are going down in population if you don't count immigration than if you do. But popultaion support by immigration isn't a good idea in the long run.

You might as well try to predict what side a coin will land on every time of a thousand tosses as try to guess population growth and numbers of the future.
Have you ever heard of Gauss' bell? It's a graphic that describes what are the chances when you throw a number of coins(what are the chances for all of them to fall on the same face, or 75%of them to fall on the same face, etc.). It looks something like this:

___________*__________
________*_____*_______
______*_________*_____
____*_____________*___
_*__________________*_
0% 25% 50% 75% 100%

Or... not really. It should look like a bell, but my drawing skills aren't that good.

Of course, we can never get it right on the person, but give or take a few hundred million, we can come very close.

A few hundred million! A few hundred million isn't what I'd call "close". It's too large a number to be "close".

[i]Mathematicians make several models for population growth. Cases in which people get more children, less children, and some other variants. For this, they use the data of the past 100 years or so, and for the next 10 years the graphs of these models are almost the same. Given the data for the next 10 years, they can see which of the original models comes closest, and base new models around that. Again, a minimum variant, a maximum variant, and some in between.

As I said, luck.

No, I haven't heard of it. besides it's irrelevant, as I was talking of guessing what side it would land on once for every time out of 1000 flips, not the chances of them all falling on the same side.

Calculus has to be hard...

On 6.5 billion, 100 million is close.

Calculus has to be hard...

I remember that in high school I failed in calculus, triginometry and a few other areas. I recently managed trigonometry easily in my maths paper, though.

On 6.5 billion, 100 million is close. What you talkin' 'bout?

To me closeness is about more than % of the larger number, it's also about the size of the smaller number. 100 million is to large to be close to me. After all that's almost 25 times the population of New Zealand!

NEW: NZ population: about 4.1 million.

And at that certain moment, across the whole of the world, suddenly 1000 bananas are rotten. The rotten-banana-distribution is the same as the good-banana-distribution, if possible.

Dammit. 1000 bananas are 100 times as much as the amount of bananas I have at home. That's a lot of bananas!

Bananas are really delicious and good for you...(This talk 'bout bananas is making me hungry...)

(What I originally wrote here has been withdrawn; while I still may not necessarily agree with you, what I wrote completely ignored a point you made, d'oh)

Bananas are really delicious and good for you...(This talk 'bout bananas is making me hungry...)

Mmm, indeed. In fact I'm going to go eat one now.

(What I originally wrote here has been withdrawn; while I still may not necessarily agree with you, what I wrote completely ignored a point you made, d'oh)

Yeah, we all do that from time to time. it's called being human.

Yeah, we all do that from time to time. it's called being human.

Ooo, Tal got burned.

Ooo, Tal got burned.

Not that I intended that. I intended to supply comfort.

Comfort by patronizing? Tsk tsk...

Yeah, the italics made it seem condescending, but if that's not your intent..

Sorry. The italics were meant to emphasise not offend.

Still, Tal was burned.

Um, if DD didn't mean that as an insult, then no I was not burned. Sometimes I wonder if you're any more intelligent than a bowl of apricots.

Um, if DD didn't mean that as an insult, then no I was not burned. Sometimes I wonder if you're any more intelligent than a bowl of apricots.

Now that is a burn.

Bowls of tulips on the other hand...

Sometimes I wonder if you're any more intelligent than a bowl of apricots.

Are you talking to me?
Yeah, as I read that, I was thinking that the flames went in my direction. I am aflame. I got burned...

(Tal might have been talking about you DD)

Use the Preferences and switch Message from Flat to Nested. View this thread again and you'll have a much better idea of who Tal is addressing.