The Dink Network

I want your opinion on a few things. (And yes, your feedback will be seriously considered as I am dedicated to making it as good as possible.) There is quite a bit here, but please stick with me. If you have a opinion of the things I ask about please give me the reasoning behind your opinion, offerwise I cannot properly consider your opinion and therefore will not be influenced by it.

1) Should Dink get a girlfriend in my dmod? If it does happen it will be at the end of the dmod, sort of as reward (for Dink, not the player). It is just that I prefer happy ending.

2) I am using invisible sprites to "plug" some of the hardness flaws of the Dink engine. (Yes I do know about the hardness tiles, but they have weird shapes that I don't like or agree with, so I am using invisible sprites since they do a better job in my opinion (or at least the ones with better hardness boxes do).) Does anyone have a problem with that?

3) Does the idea of doing mini mission to work your way up to being ready for the main mission bother anyone?

4) I was going to make my dmod more of a serious dmod than is usual for dmods (though humour would still of been there), but way more comedy has made its way into the dmod by... well, accident for lack of a better word. (Example: a pacifist slayer and smart ass remarks from Dink.) After I realised this I realised dmods alomst have to be that way. What do you think of this opinion?

5) The continent Dink lives on is not fully exporable in this, my first dmod. It will instead be explored in my future dmods. Is this really a good idea?

6) My dmod is set in a alternate Divkverse so that I don't have to stay consistent with the crappy dmods (which chafes at me), though that means I can't keep consistent with the good ones. What do you think of this? And can you give me some advice on how to tip my hat to the good dmods?

7) I am being fussy about the small details that are usually ignored by dmod authors... the things that make the suspension of disbelief that much easier. This will of course delay my dmod's release by quite a bit. I know what you're thinking: he won't finish his dmod because he will be working on it and get bored of it. Well... no actually. I love the creative process. I meam I have been working on my books for a decade or so now... despite never being truely satisfied with them. Oh and that won't happen if my dmod because I have recently realised I was too fussy with things. I have toned down my fussiness to the point where I can get details to a high level of quality without an infanant level of delay.

Sorry about that being so long. Thank you for being so patient. Any constructive advice or criticism would be much appreciated.

1) Why not?
2) Using invisible sprites you must remember that the number of sprites on one screen is very limited. If you exceed this limit, the game may crash.
3) It is the usual practice I think
4) A DMod may be serious, but not gravely, so a little spark of humor here and there is necessary
5) Why not? If you are making a sequel
6) There was once a timeline, but many good DMods don't keep it.
7) How understandable... The same here

1) If you want. If it's a reward for finishing the d-mod, why would anybody complain? It will hardly affect the gameplay, will it?

2) Dodgy. Be very careful (as Tyrsis says) not to exceed the sprite limit per screen. Otherwise, there is no real problem with this.

3) This is the typical way. You would be venturing away from the norm if you went straight into the main quest.

4) In my opinion, the best d-mod are those that are serious for the most part, but have humourous and eccentric characters. NOTE : This does not mean [i]annoying</i? characters, as these two traits often get mixed up. And Dink should always be chippin in with his stupid little comments. The rascal.

5) It was done in Quest for Dorinthia, and it is a fine idea. No problems with that. In fact, it will save you time on the sequel, as a fair bit of mapping will already have been done.

6) A d-mod doesn't hae to make sense! Cloud Castle 2, for example, is set in it's own "Dinkiverse", and follows on straight from the original game. Yet we still stuck in referenes to other d-mods, and other quests Dink had supposedly undertaken.

7) Depends what sort of detail you mean. You may be thinking of sripting nigh on every object.. fair enough. But if you really want to suspend disbelief it is down to NO hardness errores, NO bugs, sp_nohit(¤t_sprite, 1) for all bits of grass and other miscellany lying on the grass. That sort of thing.
Hope this helps. If you have any queries/comments on what I've said, just ask.
Good luck!

Yes I know about the 100 sprites limit but the most I have got to is about 48... and that is a screen for a forest not a screen where the hardness sprites are on.

And I have been so busy with creating dmod that I have been able to try very few dmods. Especially since me and DuckFriend share a computer.

Thank you for the comments guys they are very much appreciated.

Of all the dmods which have zero bugs, AGAE has the most

1) Sure he can get a girlfriend. It would be pretty dinkish, though, to give him a possibility to screw his chances by giving the player the ability to say something stupid to the girl.

2) Can't see why anyone would.

3) a. It's up to you to make the plot of the d-mod exactly like you want, so you decide!! You're revealing the whole thing to everyone beforehand.
b. Doesn't bother me, anyway. I guess some people will object. But some people will object to everything.

4) The plan sounds good. Don't reveal the meaning of life at the end or anything too grand, but I think it's always a nice idea to have some more depth than "Dink will now resque this object by killing boncas".

5) That's how Dink Smallwood originally was, but the "supposed to continue" just didn't... Sounds good to me, again.

6) It's pretty easy to ignore the crappy d-mods... or any d-mods. Actually, if I remember anything, very few add elements of other stories or even acknowledge their existence. I don't think the universe the mod is set in matters, really.
And as for tipping the good d-mods... just mention Finland somewhere. No, kidding, ..which d-mod was the one where the goblins came in pulling the big weapon? It's been so long since I played anything. That was a well-done tribute. Which was it, anyone?

7) This wasn't a question? Detail = nice.

1) So nothing simonkish here eh? Fine with me.

2) If you use tons of them / use them on houses.

3) No

4) Good humour is always good.

5) It depends.

6) There's nothing wrong with that though you could always just ignore the bad dmods.

7) Don't be too fussy.

1) It's your mod so you decide.

2) Seems rather useless if there's a perfect other way to do that, but the answer's 'no'; why would anyone have a problem with that? It's the outcome that counts, not the way you did it.

3) Is there any other way then?

4) Make sure the player believes (the reason for) the adventure, and then add humour. Humour is better then graveness.

5) It's about the story, not about how much you can explore. No one will even know you've got a whole continent and even if they do, they won't care. It's about the adventure you can play, not about the things you can't do.

6) Don't worry so much. Just do it the way you think is good.

7) Usually ignored? Now you sound cocky. There are a lot of mods that are good which don't have small details. Just details don't make a mod good.

I have toned down my fussiness to the point where I can get details to a high level of quality without an infanant level of delay.
Dude, no one cares. No one gives a crap what your level of delay is or is not or what it would've been if you added more details or less. It's what the d-mod is like that counts.

"Dude, no one cares. No one gives a crap what your level of delay is or is not or what it would've been if you added more details or less. It's what the d-mod is like that counts."

Owned?

Thankyou for your comments.

Firstly, SabreTrout, none of the mapping will already be done for the sequels as Dink will immediately move on to the new continent.

Secondly, Sharp, I am not revealing everything before hand. I would never do that. Unless I mentioned things on the plot I would not be doing that. I am a strong advicator of not revealing the plot early or before the right time. Apart from the girlfriend thing they are all just minor details that have nothing to do with the plot. And that one exception is only one of many possible rewards for Dink I am considering so it may not even make it's way into the dmod. The only reason I ask is because I am not sure if it is appropraite to Dink's character, so I thought I would ask those with more Dinking experience for their opinions.

Thirdly, Binirit, I obviously don't think the other way is perfect. I don't like the shape of the tiles.

Fourthly, I agree Binirit, it's the putcome that matters, not the method, but some people have weird preferences and opinions.

Fithly, yes there is another way, Binirit. There is the "large main adventure that covers the whole dmod" way.

Sixthly, Binirit, I don't think you understood number 7. I was not saying that those other dmods aren't good because of lack of detail or that mine will be better because I am paying attention to detail. I was stating that I am not ignoring some of the "hidden" details that are ignored simply becuase their is ways to plug some of the holes Seth left in the engine and design of the game. I suggest you use DinkEdit or WinDinkEdit to look at the hardness of most sprites to see what I am talking about. Take walls for inside a house for example. The horizontal ones have a hardness box that only covers half the wall, leaving a part of it not hard. One way to fix it is use an invisible table that is set to be hard to "plug" that problem. What is arrogant about that? Nothing as far as I am concerned. Look, I know that plot is more important than the minor details, but are you telling me you wouldn't prefer walls and houses you can't walk through part of? Well, I know that while most people wouldn't care too much they would prefer walls and houses that at least seem to have correct hardness. And my comment about making it easier to suspend disbelief is based apon the opinion of the esperts on games, books and movies. What is arrogant about agreeing with the experts? Nothing as far as I am concerned.

Lastly, how about letting people make up there own minds, Binirit? Don't decide for other people what they do and don't care about. That sort of behaviour is irritating and arrogant. And you're wrong. I have seen a lot of evidence that too much delay annoys a lot people because they get sick of hearing about a game/movie/book that "is going to be released" but gets to the point where it seems it is never going to get released. Fir exapmle, I am getting sick of hearing about SabreTrouts dmods because he keeps saying he is or will work on them and keeps giving estimates for their release that keep getting later and later.

Oh, and thank you everyone for your feedback. It is much appreciated since I strongly believe in getting feedback.

People notice things like hardness.

"And I could go behind the black hole as a fairy which kinda broke the suspension of disbelief for me." SimonK, on Cycles of Evil

But almost no one "ignores" these details. Go find a good dmod which does, besides Cloud Castle 1.

I have played quite a few dmods that never fixed it. And I didn't mean that people don't notice it. I know they do. That is why I had the speach mark around hidden. It's just that that is the term the experts use for it. I'm not sure why.

Poor boy. You need a banana.

Take walls for inside a house for example. The horizontal ones have a hardness box that only covers half the wall, leaving a part of it not hard.

I hope you're talking about the one piece of wall that isn't used in original Dink and therefore Seth didn't bother to do a hard box for it and not the vertical hardness of the walls. You did know that the hard boxes of sprites can be edited right?

Well, maybe you should try playing GOOD dmods .

Seriously, good hardness is *expected*. People will criticize you if you don't have it.

Edit: I presume that Bin was refering to unimportant details, like trees and flowers. But I don't really know.

Well I never mentioned them, only hardness and such issues, so I don't know where he got that idea from if that is indeed what he thinks.

Oh, and how stupid do you think I am? All dmod authors with a fraction of intelligence know to at least try to make good dmods. I am no exception.

Hey, just edit the hardness of the indoor walls in dinkedit. it's easy No need to litter the screen with crappy hard sprites.

Fithly, yes there is another way, Binirit. There is the "large main adventure that covers the whole dmod" way.
Which then always has small quests. Your mini missions.

Sixthly, Binirit, I don't think you understood number 7. I was not saying that those other dmods aren't good because of lack of detail or that mine will be better because I am paying attention to detail.
You said that you're being fussy about the small details that are usually ignored by dmod authors... In other words: you are adding those small details that other dmod authors do not. And one would not add something if one thought that it wasn't good. So you are convinced that those small details are good since there is no point in adding something that is not good. Right? And since you state that those details, which are good and therefore make the mod good or make it at least better then it would've been without those details, are added by you, but usually not by other dmod authors, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that I did not only understood your number 7 perfectly well, but also that you think your dmod is better with those small details then most other mods (since 'usually' refers to something that happens quite frequently) and since you have not made anything yet it is cocky to declare in anticipation that your mod will be better then most D-mods that have been made.

Thirdly, Binirit, I obviously don't think the other way is perfect. I don't like the shape of the tiles.
You asked if anyone would have a problem with that. Thàt was your question. I answered that no one would, since it's the outcome that matters. And if you don't like the other way, why bother asking if you already know you're going to do it the way you want it to be done? Which, IMO, is the only right way: one should always do it the way one prefers.

Fourthly, I agree Binirit, it's the putcome that matters, not the method, but some people have weird preferences and opinions.
Somehow I don't think you'll be influenced by other people's preferences and opinions, so why don't you just do what all other authors do: make a d-mod you like.

Look, I know that plot is more important than the minor details, but are you telling me you wouldn't prefer walls and houses you can't walk through part of? Well, I know that while most people wouldn't care too much they would prefer walls and houses that at least seem to have correct hardness.
No, I am not telling you that. I told you that you sounded cocky to me saying that usually D-mod authors are not adding those small details which you are planning to add. Which, I just found out, is sprite-hardness in your opinion. Not worth discussing if it should or should not be in a D-mod, since it's a basic thing. So should you be fussy about those 'small details'? You should just make sure the hardness is correct. That's all.

And my comment about making it easier to suspend disbelief is based apon the opinion of the esperts on games, books and movies. What is arrogant about agreeing with the experts? Nothing as far as I am concerned.
But that wasn't what you said. You said that you are being fussy about the small details that are usually ignored by authors. If you had wanted an answer to the question whether you should or should not follow expert advice, whether we believed or not believed the advice given by experts is sound and/or if it is or is not arrogant to follow or not follow advice given by experts, then you should've asked thàt.

I am being fussy about the small details that are usually ignored by dmod authors... the things that make the suspension of disbelief that much easier. This will of course delay my dmod's release by quite a bit.
You make it sound like something real special you're going to add to your D-mod, but you're only talking about hardness! There is nothing special about that, let alone that it would delay your D-mod's release in any extra-ordinary way, since it is a normal part of making a mod.

Lastly, how about letting people make up there own minds, Binirit? Don't decide for other people what they do and don't care about. That sort of behaviour is irritating and arrogant.
If it's not true it is. If it's the truth, it's not. And I know it's not since it's true. I know what people have said in the past.

And you're wrong. I have seen a lot of evidence that too much delay annoys a lot people because they get sick of hearing about a game/movie/book that "is going to be released" but gets to the point where it seems it is never going to get released.
You are right when it concerns a new D-mod by, for example, SimonK. Then we can't wait untill he's finished it and then we're annoyed ( well, sort of ) if it's delayed since we want to play it real bad and experience a fantastic new adventure.
But for most D-mods, inluding yours, that isn't the fact.

Fir exapmle, I am getting sick of hearing about SabreTrouts dmods because he keeps saying he is or will work on them and keeps giving estimates for their release that keep getting later and later.
You obviously are a newbie, or even a n00b. No one who has been longer on the DN would say that in the mean way you intended it.

oh, and thank you everyone for your feedback. It is much appreciated since I strongly believe in getting feedback.
Well, you obivously don't. You don't listen to people who have been around a tad bit longer then you have or who have made a or some D-mods.

But then again, you're not the only one, not the first one and you won't be the last one - we've seen a lot come and go. So welcome on board and enjoy the ride. It gets a bit rough sometimes , but I've no doubt you can handle that.

Okay I will reword that: "The main mission that covers the whole game. And I mean the ONE large mission that incompasses the whole game. I have played games that use that approach.

Actually is it not possible to add things that improve things, yet are not in and of themselves that great? I was simply stating that my dmod would be better than a version of it without those details. You're right... I can't accurately predict it is better... which is why I don't think that.

Actually I was explaining why I said the oriiginal comment, not saying that method is set in stone.

Well if someone states an opnion that has reason and logic behind it I will seriously considered it but so far you have given me no explanations for your opinions so I cannot consider them properly and from all angels.

Actually I was saying that it will improve it, not that it would be a great improvement nor did I make any comments that implied it.

And, I, too am going off what other people have said in the past as I stated. Until now you did not. And from my experience people do eventually get sick of hearing about ANYTHING that is continually talked about but never released.

Really? SabreTrout often makes mean comments and based on the fact that he has files here that are now old, he is obviously no newbie. So just because I make a mean comment does not mean I am a newbie.

Well, actually I doubt everyone here has made dmods. And your comments are the only ones I have made these comments to. Which means there is little evidence that I don't listen since the other messages were ones of support from these same dmod authors you are talking about. I am not going to change something when I get more support than critism. Besides one statement of yours has influenced me. That is this: I am now going to worry about those fussy details at later stages so that my first alphas for my testers can be tested at earlier stages, thus speeding up the development stage since I don't have to correct them later on.

Oh and you have been constantly insulting my intelligence by making comments that include parts that I would have to be stupid to not know (such as worry more about plot than minor details). In fact as someone who has been writing creative stories for a decade I would have to be particualrly stupid to not know that. If you are going to be insulting rather than constructive then please don't respond to my posts. I don't appreciate patronizing commenmts.

Sorry, everyone else, about my ranting about my ranting and rathing.

"All dmod authors with a fraction of intelligence know to at least try to make good dmods."

I honestly have never thought of that... No sarcasm.

BTW, Bin = female, unless I've been hitting the crack-pipe too much.

<MESSAGE DELETED DUE TO BADLY THOUGHT OUT ABUSE TOWARDS DRACONICDINK>

But you haven't got a clue about how I work on my d-mods.

I keep saying I'm working on them because... I am. A lot. And what estimatees have I given recently? Having a demo out by the 10th is the last thing I said since the CC2 release date, which was put back over and over, with good reason.

That d-mod has a LOT in it. So before you start talking about my problems with releasing d-mods (after all, it's not like I've finished any, is it?), then finish your own.

As for you being called a n00b, it's not because of "being mean". It's because, my dear friend, you act like a small, attention starved child who just cannot understand why people are shouting at him, when he keep kicking them inthe shins and stealing their cookies.
Dragons are shoot.

Oh bollocks, just open the editor and go make a D-Mod If you have trouble creating something, ask here for development questions. If you want to discuss something, just talk about it. But all the original questions (and this whole thread) seem pointless to me; just go make a D-Mod the way you think it's good and release it - then you can create a thread discussing the good & bad matters of it. There's no point in discussing the "excellence" of your upcoming D-Mod, if you wanna mention features then ok but things like sprites or tiles for hardness is just common sense: a house has proper hardness period; it's up to you how you're gonna add it in the editor. People who play the D-Mod don't notice the difference anyway.

A-men!

Heheh! You're absolutely right!

Actually is it not possible to add things that improve things, yet are not in and of themselves that great? I was simply stating that my dmod would be better than a version of it without those details. You're right... I can't accurately predict it is better... which is why I don't think that.
No, you did not say that. You said that you would be fussy about adding small details that are usually ignored by D-mod authors. You never said anything about your D-mod with and your D-mod without those small details. You said something about D-mod authors and that gave the impression that you were comparing your D-mod with other ones. However, if your only intent is to compare two versions of your D-mod with eachother, you shouldn't mention other authors; that is namely confusing.
And to answer your question if it is possible to add things that improve things but that are not that great in themselves; yes, of course. But you knew that before asking.

And, I, too am going off what other people have said in the past as I stated. Until now you did not. And from my experience people do eventually get sick of hearing about ANYTHING that is continually talked about but never released.
Well if someone states an opnion that has reason and logic behind it I will seriously considered it but so far you have given me no explanations for your opinions so I cannot consider them properly and from all angels.
If you don't understand something I said, you just have to say so, and I will explain it again, in a different way if necessary. I've got no problems with that.

Really? SabreTrout often makes mean comments and based on the fact that he has files here that are now old, he is obviously no newbie. So just because I make a mean comment does not mean I am a newbie.
The one thing you are very good at, is combining facts that have nothing to do with eachother - and this sentence is a fine example. You say that just because you make a mean comment that does not mean you're a newbie, and you make it sound as if I would've said that. But, the truth is that I said that no one who has been longer on the DN would say the things you've said about Sabre in the way you've said it, namely with a mean intent. Hence, you must be a newbie, or a n00b. You're combining however two things, the first one being that you said something in a mean way and the second one being a newbie, and you then stated that making mean comments does not make one a newbie. Which is of course true. But it also has nothing to do with anything, because no one has said anything of the kind. Except you, that is.
And that someone else makes mean comments does not mean you should too. There are a lot of things that other people do and just because they do it, does not mean you should do it too. Hence: if Sabre makes mean comments, you should say something about it, and not make mean comments yourself.
Besides that, you obviously do not know Sabre very well. If you would know him better, you'd know he never makes mean comments - and if he does, it's for a reason.

Well, actually I doubt everyone here has made dmods. And your comments are the only ones I have made these comments to. Which means there is little evidence that I don't listen since the other messages were ones of support from these same dmod authors you are talking about. I am not going to change something when I get more support than critism. Besides one statement of yours has influenced me. That is this: I am now going to worry about those fussy details at later stages so that my first alphas for my testers can be tested at earlier stages, thus speeding up the development stage since I don't have to correct them later on.
Even if I were the only one who thought the way I think and who had the opinions I have, even then that wouldn't change anything nor would it withhold me from saying how things sound to me. And you still sound cocky to me.

Oh and you have been constantly insulting my intelligence by making comments that include parts that I would have to be stupid to not know (such as worry more about plot than minor details)..
Did I say that? Show it to me! You see things that are not there. I never said such a thing, nor would I imply it since something like that never would cross my mind, for I may not always like the way you sound, and I may disagree with you on certain points, but that does not mean that I would consider you stupid.

In fact as someone who has been writing creative stories for a decade I would have to be particualrly stupid to not know that. If you are going to be insulting rather than constructive then please don't respond to my posts. I don't appreciate patronizing commenmts.
And you have every right to not like patronizing comments. As I have every right to not consider mine as such. And to consider yours cocky. There is really no big deal in that, since we all have a right to our own opinions. And if ours differ, that is no reason for me to stop discussing things or to suddenly stop talking to you. I respect you for the human being you are, it is that simple. I really had no intention of being either constructive or insulting; I just responded to your comments and disagreed with some. If that's a reason for you to not wanting me to respond to your posts, then I would have to reconsider the impression you gave me, since I really don't mind a discussion and I really don't mind someone disagreeing with me - and I thought you wouldn't either.

Hey do you think I didn't try that DinkEdit just won't save my changes, even though it claims to do so.

That's a bug in dinkedit. New SET_SPRITE_INFO lines go on the same row. Just put them on separate rows and the hardnesses should work.

I know, it's crap. Try opening your dink.ini
remove the weird [] (blocky) signs.
then run INICLEAN by Paul. It's brilliant!

Ok, I will try a few friendly explanations here in the attempt to lessen a few misunderstandings we have both been having.

Firstly you have said "you didn't say that you said..." a few times. You're partly right. The earlier times I din't say that. However, the following times were simply an attempt at clarification through changing the words. I am sorry for every time I have not been clear as I know how fustrating it can be to misinterpret people.

Secondly you keep saying you didn't mean things the way I have been saying you have. I have simply been interpreting them that way because it seemed you were saying that (based on the words you used and how you used them). If I have misinterprited you at all I give you my sincerest apologies, as I know how fustrating it can be to have people misinterpret me.

Thirdly, if I have come across rudely and arrogantly. It has not been my intention to insult anyone or to say that me or my ways are better than ahyone elses. I was simply trying to say it is the best way I know of.

In short, sorry for any annoyance and fustrations I have caused you.

ADDITION: I also didn't mean to imply your opinions were meaningless or worthless to me and that I didn't mean to make it sound like I din't apprecaite your effort. I did. Its simply that I didn't agree as I saw no or little evidence as to you thought what you did, so it would be not be logical to change my opinion to more closely match yours. I am not necessarily saying your opinions are invalid, simply that I have no reason to assume they are, meaning I must remain neutral.

awww...poor dragon.*hug*

I think many of those misunderstandings would never have come if you two would just POST SHORTER POSTS.

Thanks for trying, but I am new at this. I don't know how to edit my Dink.ini to change hardness. If I tried I would probably f*** something up.

Hah? Okay, i am confused now. I see no logic in that comment. It was the words used and how those words were used I believe, not how many words.

The hard box lines are the SET_SPRITE_INFO 193 1 50 16 -50 -16 43 13 ones. In the end of dink.ini, just press enter before every one. If those weird black squares are there, delete them.

Thanks, but ahhh... I'm not sure I needed it. I am a grown man, I can handle it. At least I think I can. I certainly hope I can. If I can't then I have a lot to learn about life.

Okay enough jokes about myself now, I think. Though I enjoy making fun of myself maybe I should do something else for now.

If you use less words the ones that are left become more important and people will pay more attention to them. (You as in overall you)

What I mean is that you and Bin both use more words than necessary to say something.

I still don't think I understand.

Well, I used what I thought at the time was the best way to get my message across.

Go to dink.ini

Scroll to the very end of the file.

The last line will propably look like something like this:

SET_SPRITE_INFO 180 1 13 212 -13 -200 7 188SET_SPRITE_INFO 900 1 90 479 -56 -36 38 25SET_SPRITE_INFO 159 9 60 133 -61 -52 48 21

It appears that showing an example here on the board doesn't work that well, but anyway...

Put each SET_SPRITE_INFO line on it's own line. Like this:

SET_SPRITE_INFO 180 1 13 212 -13 -200 7 188
SET_SPRITE_INFO 900 1 90 479 -56 -36 38 25
SET_SPRITE_INFO 159 9 60 133 -61 -52 48 21

If those weird black boxes are there, delete them.

And just so you know, Draconic, one of the major things that pissed me of is that you say I am always putting back my d-mods, yet you say it "will take a long time to produce one of the truest epics ever", about your d-mod.

But it appears you have a projected release date of mid 2005. Not so be mean, but I really can't see that heppening. 6 months for a crappy epic would be a big ask, but a good one?

Good luck though.

Bah, long posts are always good. Most people at message boards don't understand their value, but it's so much better to write 30 lines than just one.

I don't know if the rest of you notice, but I have some kind of an inner need to stretch my messages with nonsense like this so that they would be longer, and hence, appear more convincing. So there, scratcher.

Bah, long posts are always good.

I liked the apologies he made. When someone apologises for everthing he said, I have nothing else to say.

Yeah, I hate short posts.

....

Well admitedly I may be being too optimistic but until recently I have been working hard on it and my mind works fast (perhaps a little too fast for my own good since I tend to have too many thoughta in my head sometimes). Considering that I am so fussy I might have to change it to "latest 2005". And by "one the truest epics ever" I mean that it will be one of largest dmods ever since I will be using pretty much every screen on the map.

Oh, and thanks for the good luck wish. Same to you.

Ok... but what black boxes are you talking about?

Well, while I do not have a problem with long posts, I don't support extending posts for the sake of it. I believe if you can say it in fewer words you should do so. But, oh, well, each to their own.

No, you just post many short posts in a row.

And using the whole map means nothing in making the d-mod an epic (in my eyes), but this designation comes from the amount of gameplay the d-mod would have, which means many scripts, which takes a helluva lot of time. Even more so if you want to vary the gaemplay from "kill-kill-rest-kill-walk-kill-walk" like is the norm.

And as you are still learning DinkC, it's not going to be easy. However, if you need any help, don't hesitate to ask.

I do try to help new d-mod creators when I can.

Sometimes weird black boxes get created in dink.ini but you apparently don't have them.

Yes, I know map size alone does not make an epic and that it is gameplay time. However, a larger maps means a larger area to explore and more chance of going to the wrong place in search for the quest location and thus more game time. Also we are talking about a multitude of mini missions leading up to the main mission. So far I have though of 10 mini-missions (which is only the tip of the iceberg (sorry about the boring cliche)). Oh, and those missions most definetly vary from "kill-kill-rest-walk-kill-walk" or any varation of that. So far "retrieve" and "send a message" are used a couple of times.

Oh, and I know that those tons of scripts will delay me a lot, even though most of them are you "talk" to or hit a sprite such as a table or bed or book shlef etc.

Yes, I do still have a lot to learn, although so far (thanks to people telling me what help files to use) I have learned all the commands that I have needed so far. I will no doubt need much much more later, however, and when such a need arises I will do a thread asking what help file to use or for the command(s) (not sure which one yet).

Thanks for the offer to help. I apprecaite offers for help (especiaaly when I need it - and need it I will soonish).

It's a shame I am semi-away for a week, so can't really work on my dmod at the moment. It's just that my parents want me to look after their house while I am gone, so I am only home for a few hours a day at the moment. Oh, well, things happen. Might as well not complain about things that can't be changed and accept them and move on to enjoying life. I mean isn't that what it's all about?

Oh, sorry for rambling on about boring crap. I'm sure none of you (quite understandingly since you don't know me) care what is going on in my life.

Well, I have never seen them, so no. So how would that solve the problem of the hardness on the horizontal house walls not covering the whole wall? And since I don't have them how else do I solve it without using DinkEdit (which won't actually save it when it tells me it is)?

*sob* Don't you listen? Because your problem most propably is that Dinkedit DOES save your changes to sprites' hard boxes but the changes don't take place bacause the SET_SPRITE_INFO lines in dink.ini go on the same line. You need to put them on separate lines in order for the hard box changes to take place.

Each time you modify a sprite's hard box and press S in DinkEdit a new SET_SPRITE_INFO line gets created in dink.ini

Ok, I will try again and look for that occurence, though I don't remember that happening.

Sorry that I didn't understand you before. It's just that I was distracted, not that that's a good excuse, just an explanation as to why it happened.

Okay, I tried it and you were right, though I saw white boxes rather than black, but oh well colour is unimportant. The important thing is my walls now have better hardness.

Thank you, that will make my map file a lot smaller since a lot of invisable sprites would add up.

NEW: It has already saved me 200KB just by making it so I can remove the invisable hardness sprites in a village that is only a thrid done. Ahhhh... imagine how much larger the full map would of been if I had of got round to doing the other hardness sprites?

However, a larger maps means a larger area to explore and more chance of going to the wrong place in search for the quest location and thus more game time.

Uh... but would that game time be any fun? I mean, I can make a D-Mod that waits an hour between every dialogue statement, so my game takes a hojillion hours to complete.

But seriously, most people don't like wandering around the entire map trying to figure out what the heck they're supposed to be doing. In response to my D-Mod FIAT, people complained because there were a couple quests that required you to go to multiple islands. Even though the majority of the quests were localized on the islands, they didn't like having to go all across the map to get something done, even when they knew that they had to do.

I would also recommend that you make a quick little romp. Come up with some neat core idea (perhaps one of your ideas for a mini-mission in your epic) and try to develop it to a short, 5-10 minute romp with a dozen or two screens. Put as much effort into it as you would your epic. That way you get to hone your skills.

It would probably only take you a month or less to create such a romp, even if you worked on your epic concurrently, and it would probably provide you with insight you could not obtain in any other way.

So far "retrieve" and "send a message" are used a couple of times.

I forgot to mention, walking from one place to another to deliver messages/packages is also an over-used part of the d-mod formula. Not that they don't work well... but you must be careful not to have many such quests... they get dull quickly.

I would also agree with Redink on the making a small romp first. Not only does it "hone your skills", but you will be able to see how people respond to your own style of jokes/dialogue/mapping etc. Which is always useful. Always.

Oh, I am going to give the player instructions on how to get there. It's just that I want to provide them with a little bit of challenge by not giving them exact directions and making it a little bit of a walk to get there. Oh, and as soon as I figure out how I intend to do something similar to the stones that block off the town in the Dink game.

Oh I hate dmods that are that short, so since I won't like my dmod if it is that short I won't be able to make a convincing or interesting dmod since noone can make convincing or interesting dmods if they themselves do not like them. However, for testing perposes, I will be releasing an alpha to a selected few that incompasses only the first mission. That sort of covers that doesn't it, redink and Sabre?

Oh, and Sabre... I meant that there is going to be a large variety of missions that includes those and as such no particular type is used often. If I did use any particular one too often and still use a large variety of missions then the dmod would be WAY too large as there would be too many missions, which is almost as bad as a dmod that is too short.

It's just that I want to provide them with a little bit of challenge by not giving them exact directions and making it a little bit of a walk to get there.

One person's challenge is another person's frustration. Just be careful. I've had the experience where I think I give an over-abundance of hints and explanations for what the player must do, yet I've had feedback where people got very confused and lost.

... I won't be able to make a convincing or interesting dmod since noone can make convincing or interesting dmods if they themselves do not like them.

That's a fallacy. In the arts, especially in computer and video games, it is a rarity for a creator to be happy with the result of their work. Something doesn't work right, features are dropped, and the resulting work is a mere shadow of its originally planned glory. Of the D-Mods that I've created, I think I'm most happy with Initiation and Cycles of Evil, while I'm quite discontent with the rest.

I think you are getting not being entirely happy with a dmod (which I realise is impossible) with actually not liking or hating the dmod. I would actually hate my dmod if it were so short. If I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't be able to put as much effort into, meaning it would be crapy.

I HATED Cloud Castle 2 by the time it was finished. Why? Because there was far too much detail in it, and it begun to take over my life.

The original was much more enjoyable to create, as I was simply messing about (The cut-scene where you first meet Alessa was the first cut-scene I EVER made) with the engine, and it slowly formed into a d-mod. I didn't plan for great detail, and didn't put great detail in. Of course there were greater, bigger ideas for the plot... but I knew that I couldn't show them properly.
So we (my brother and I) sort of stumbled upon the notion of a trilogy. One large romp, one large quest.. and guess what the 3rd will be?

If you play through the 2 d-mods, you will easily be able to see how we learnt from our mistakes. The reviews of the original had a huge impact on us, and we took that on board, trying to improve on the points that were highlighted -- Where we had gone wrong (difficulty, obscurity) and where we seemed to have impressed (the humour, and the "doing things a bit differently").

And see how much better the 2nd d-mod is. So maybe you could break your huge epic into smaller chunks, getting bigger as they go along, and you get more skilled in DinkC. Or Talon, of whatever it will be called.

Man, I LOVE talking about my d-mods.

This thread is entirely too long.

But very amusing. Considering the length and ammount of his posts, it's amazing Mr. C can still work on his mod.

Well, I realise that I will learn more as I get feedback. And I personally don't like the idea of game plots being split up like that. Oh well each to their own. Besides doesn't my idea of constant alphas released sort of cover what you are talking about?

In the CC games, you would see that the plots are not broken up in the slightest, but there is a larger, overlying one which will only really come out in the 3rd d-mod.

And no, I don't think alphas will do the same job. But I'll stop bugging you now, and let you do it how you see fit.