What do you need?
This is something we've discussed before, but I'm sitting at my laptop trying to find the motivation to continue with and/or pick up a new project, and it comes to mind.
What holds you back in your d-mod creation? What elements of the engine do you find problematic to work with? Do you find the hardcoded elements (stats etc) get in the way? Or is it not the engine at all? Is it the lack of different assets that inhibits your creativity?
What do you think?
What holds you back in your d-mod creation? What elements of the engine do you find problematic to work with? Do you find the hardcoded elements (stats etc) get in the way? Or is it not the engine at all? Is it the lack of different assets that inhibits your creativity?
What do you think?
640x480, bad scripting language, lack of an editor that works and the layout of Dink.ini make it annoying.
I'm still waiting for Guile support in FreeDink.
Graphics shouldn't make the game at all. It it mildly annoying that Seth never released the 3DS Max/Poser models for the community however.
Seth has made Novashell for everyone to use, and I think it's about time people moved on from something designed for a 486 with 16MB RAM.
I'm still waiting for Guile support in FreeDink.
Graphics shouldn't make the game at all. It it mildly annoying that Seth never released the 3DS Max/Poser models for the community however.
Seth has made Novashell for everyone to use, and I think it's about time people moved on from something designed for a 486 with 16MB RAM.
The engine etc doesn't really hold me back at all, if I wanted more powerful stuff I'd learn and use Novashell, Unity or whatever. Some of the actual bugs can be annoying but it's usually possible to find a workaround.
What holds me back is just me, I guess. Expert procrastinator
I'm finding the hardest part of making a D-Mod being making and telling a good story. Everything I've made previously has been fun but not exactly big on story, so working on something more serious is a bit harder. How to get a good atmosphere and a detailed story across using almost entirely dialogue (which is hard in itself) without having tons of long cutscenes, as well having a good and balanced gameplay with an interesting map is quite a skill.
Making a simple game like a D-Mod gives quite an insight into how much work goes into a "real" full game (and how important good planning and design can be, as opposed to making it up as you go along).
I'm also something of a perfectionist so I can spend hours getting a script working perfectly and then I'm fed up, so can often only get a tiny actual amount done for a long time spent doing it.
As for what does motivate me... is completing stuff I suppose. It is nice to release something and find that people enjoy it, plus finally managing to complete a tricky part that has been a challenge is a real kick.
And anything that involves tinkering with computers is always good with me, so D-Modding is perfect
Coding, graphics, sound & music, mapping...
What holds me back is just me, I guess. Expert procrastinator
I'm finding the hardest part of making a D-Mod being making and telling a good story. Everything I've made previously has been fun but not exactly big on story, so working on something more serious is a bit harder. How to get a good atmosphere and a detailed story across using almost entirely dialogue (which is hard in itself) without having tons of long cutscenes, as well having a good and balanced gameplay with an interesting map is quite a skill.
Making a simple game like a D-Mod gives quite an insight into how much work goes into a "real" full game (and how important good planning and design can be, as opposed to making it up as you go along).
I'm also something of a perfectionist so I can spend hours getting a script working perfectly and then I'm fed up, so can often only get a tiny actual amount done for a long time spent doing it.
As for what does motivate me... is completing stuff I suppose. It is nice to release something and find that people enjoy it, plus finally managing to complete a tricky part that has been a challenge is a real kick.
And anything that involves tinkering with computers is always good with me, so D-Modding is perfect
Coding, graphics, sound & music, mapping...
I don't agree with much YeOld said 
The resolution isn't an inhibiting factor, I would place that also in the "annoying" category. Let's face it, most 2D art is made for a specific resultion. But, look at RPGMaker VX, it has an even smaller resolution to work with and it has a huge fanbase. I think the art in Dink is fine. Do I wish there were more options for NPCs? Absolutely. Do I think my project will be worth less because of it? Nah.
I don't see why you would say we have an editor that doesn't work. WinDinkEdit Plus is a great editor, never had any issues with it that I couldn't work around. I wish Dink supported more than 99 sprites on a screen though.
The layout of Dink.ini is just fine once you get to know it. The options I wish it had are mostly available in DinkHD.
And Novashell does not have any resources that come with it, making it impossible to use for most of this community. Plus, the scripting language for it is not learnable by more than 60% of the people here. The DinkC language has many limiting factors to be sure, but so far it hasn't really kept me from doing what I want much, except for the few limits that ARE an inhibiting factor like concurrent variables, sound effects and scripts running.
Opening up XP requirements and UI modification would be a big plus though, perhaps through XML.
EDIT: Was typing this will Sparrow replied and I agree with everything he said too For me the story is the most important part of any game, fortunately it comes easily to me, you might say it's the only real talent I have xD Now if I could work past the procrastinating! At least I've been able to quench my thirst for unlimited features a bit
The resolution isn't an inhibiting factor, I would place that also in the "annoying" category. Let's face it, most 2D art is made for a specific resultion. But, look at RPGMaker VX, it has an even smaller resolution to work with and it has a huge fanbase. I think the art in Dink is fine. Do I wish there were more options for NPCs? Absolutely. Do I think my project will be worth less because of it? Nah.
I don't see why you would say we have an editor that doesn't work. WinDinkEdit Plus is a great editor, never had any issues with it that I couldn't work around. I wish Dink supported more than 99 sprites on a screen though.
The layout of Dink.ini is just fine once you get to know it. The options I wish it had are mostly available in DinkHD.
And Novashell does not have any resources that come with it, making it impossible to use for most of this community. Plus, the scripting language for it is not learnable by more than 60% of the people here. The DinkC language has many limiting factors to be sure, but so far it hasn't really kept me from doing what I want much, except for the few limits that ARE an inhibiting factor like concurrent variables, sound effects and scripts running.
Opening up XP requirements and UI modification would be a big plus though, perhaps through XML.
EDIT: Was typing this will Sparrow replied and I agree with everything he said too
For me the story is the most important part of any game, fortunately it comes easily to me, you might say it's the only real talent I have xD Now if I could work past the procrastinating! At least I've been able to quench my thirst for unlimited features a bit 
I would like it if variable values could hold symbols instead of only numbers. It would be awesome to have &sword = gold in your script to make you pick up a Gold Sword (lousy example, I know).
I think the dink engine is as good as it gonna get.
I should have said "modern" instead of "working". Free/DinkEdit is fine, but it is slow and inefficient for many, and WinDinkEdit/+ doesn't work properly on Vista and up, and has a tonne of unresolved bugs.
Making a standalone copy of your game to give to people is also a tirade unto itself, and generally you have to get people to download and install Dink to play it which they generally aren't going to do.
Novashell actually has quite a collection of example programs included. I don't know why you think there are no resources with it. If you don't like Lua (which isn't at all difficult), there's always Game Editor which uses C and has an incredibly active community and is under continual development.
Even so, you're free to use Dink BMPs for whatever you would like.
The sprite limit is 99 in the map editor, but I believe you can push it higher using scripts.
Making a standalone copy of your game to give to people is also a tirade unto itself, and generally you have to get people to download and install Dink to play it which they generally aren't going to do.
Novashell actually has quite a collection of example programs included. I don't know why you think there are no resources with it. If you don't like Lua (which isn't at all difficult), there's always Game Editor which uses C and has an incredibly active community and is under continual development.
Even so, you're free to use Dink BMPs for whatever you would like.
The sprite limit is 99 in the map editor, but I believe you can push it higher using scripts.
May 22nd 2011, 10:47 AM
Sparrow
"The sprite limit is 99 in the map editor, but I believe you can push it higher using scripts."
Yes, you can go up to about 300 that way.
Yes, you can go up to about 300 that way.
I'm similar to Sparrow aka Procrastinator extrodinare, but in a way, I sometimes think the effort to make a Dmod might be worth it if we had paralax scrolling, height mapping, alternaive cameras and more map and sprite space.
When I said resources I meant assets. Novashell doesn't come with its own set of assets, so there's not much any of us could do with it except remake Dink which is an excercise in redundancy
May 23rd 2011, 08:17 AM
ipd
Well, as said before, the problem is not in the engine, the problem is the laziness of the dinkers.
Well hardness holds m'e back I will have done this awesome map and either everything will be hard or nothing at all and I don't want to fix it or upload it because every things hard beginners mistake .
.
What holds you back in your d-mod creation?
Probably motivation to just go on with it. All my D-Mods have been created for different contests. I think I need some sort of deadline; when it has to be completed (like a contest deadline). Creating a thread and update the progress would be motivating. However, there's always a big risk that it'll never be completed and thus disappointing people that are anticipating it to eventually show up.
Seth has made Novashell for everyone to use, and I think it's about time people moved on from something designed for a 486 with 16MB RAM.
I partly agree with this, Toast. I'm really curious to create a game in Novashell, the only thing that holds me back are issues like: having to learn LUA, create all new sprites and tiles that are needed, and so forth...
Probably motivation to just go on with it. All my D-Mods have been created for different contests. I think I need some sort of deadline; when it has to be completed (like a contest deadline). Creating a thread and update the progress would be motivating. However, there's always a big risk that it'll never be completed and thus disappointing people that are anticipating it to eventually show up.
Seth has made Novashell for everyone to use, and I think it's about time people moved on from something designed for a 486 with 16MB RAM.
I partly agree with this, Toast. I'm really curious to create a game in Novashell, the only thing that holds me back are issues like: having to learn LUA, create all new sprites and tiles that are needed, and so forth...
My impression is that Lua is used with a lot of programs, especially games, so it would be useful to know anyway, if you like messing around with scripting in general.
for me what holds me back the most is laziness like skull said.(plus i spend more time making my fictions)
The impossibility to add more sprites in the ini file (more than 1000 sequences or what it is), is really annoying.
Okay Marpro I have decided to write an introductory guide for you. It's a work in progress and far from complete. I hope you have Chrome because firefox doesn't word wrap.
At the moment it covers using the map editor, importing simple images and editing their collision data and whatnot, and also making warps between two locations. I'm about to get onto the mod manager and simple scripts. Some of it may be a bit unclear in parts but I am working on it.
It's designed to be like tut1.txt
At the moment it covers using the map editor, importing simple images and editing their collision data and whatnot, and also making warps between two locations. I'm about to get onto the mod manager and simple scripts. Some of it may be a bit unclear in parts but I am working on it.
It's designed to be like tut1.txt
Yea I need motivation to continue. I'd have great motivation if Dink still worked on my computer, but it doesn't, so I really just hope to finish one dmod for you guys, just to see how I did, and then be done with it. I need some free time to do so though, so I hope to have a dmod finished by the end of summer... Can't promise anything because I'm very lazy.
except on Mac OS X which is not designed for childish pursuits such as video gaming anyway
Lawl.
Lawl.
My suggestion: Find another person to help you!
EVERYTHING is more fun with two! Your weaknesses may be the others strengths, or, at the least, you can b**** about your weaknesses together. All projects move faster with more people.
So, in my opinion, when you're stuck on a project, you should post here (maybe under "development") and see if someone would be interested in helping you.
Other advantages:
* Two people, two senses of humour = more and funnier jokes.
* Two heads, twice the ideas = better plot
* Two sets of eyes, two points of view = better scene depth.
and the list goes on from there.
EVERYTHING is more fun with two! Your weaknesses may be the others strengths, or, at the least, you can b**** about your weaknesses together. All projects move faster with more people.
So, in my opinion, when you're stuck on a project, you should post here (maybe under "development") and see if someone would be interested in helping you.
Other advantages:
* Two people, two senses of humour = more and funnier jokes.
* Two heads, twice the ideas = better plot
* Two sets of eyes, two points of view = better scene depth.
and the list goes on from there.
Other disadvantages:
* Two people, two senses of humour, not necessarily compatible.
* Two people, twice the ideas = Arguments on where the story should be going.
* Two people = twice as many people who can quit
* Two people = twice as many people who can not feel like DMODing at the moment
And the list goes on from there.
I appreciate you looking at the bright sides but in reality there are a lot of problems with making a DMOD with more than a single person, especially if you only work online. I won't deny that there are quite a few benefits in working together, but historically it has never really worked out. Multiple group projects were started but none of them have produced anything noteworthy, except perhaps an article. This is to a large part due to the technical difficulties in working on a single map file. You usually have only a single map file between two people so only one person can work on it at a time.
Now a well set up project might overcome these difficulties, but so far it hasn't really ever worked out...
* Two people, two senses of humour, not necessarily compatible.
* Two people, twice the ideas = Arguments on where the story should be going.
* Two people = twice as many people who can quit
* Two people = twice as many people who can not feel like DMODing at the moment
And the list goes on from there.
I appreciate you looking at the bright sides but in reality there are a lot of problems with making a DMOD with more than a single person, especially if you only work online. I won't deny that there are quite a few benefits in working together, but historically it has never really worked out. Multiple group projects were started but none of them have produced anything noteworthy, except perhaps an article. This is to a large part due to the technical difficulties in working on a single map file. You usually have only a single map file between two people so only one person can work on it at a time.
Now a well set up project might overcome these difficulties, but so far it hasn't really ever worked out...
What do I need to make a DMOD?
An internship with someone as to how to make one.
I cannot get thing out of the tutorial videos.
An internship with someone as to how to make one.
I cannot get thing out of the tutorial videos.
Try metas Intro to Dmodding- even I managed that with some help and thats saying a lot!
If India and Pakistan had better relations, I would visit DinkDoodler for a week and learn how to make a DMOD.
It doesn't matter if there's 1, 2 or five million people working on one D-Mod. There's always the fifty-fifty chance it won't get done.
I appreciate you looking at the bright sides but in reality there are a lot of problems with making a DMOD with more than a single person, especially if you only work online.
I wonder how the original Dink team succeeded in doing it. I guess they were motivated by their need to make money.
I also wonder if a team D-Mod would have a better chance if people split up the responsibility by feature. That is, one person does the story, graphics, and music, and the other person does the scripting and mapping. Something like that.
I wonder how the original Dink team succeeded in doing it. I guess they were motivated by their need to make money.
I also wonder if a team D-Mod would have a better chance if people split up the responsibility by feature. That is, one person does the story, graphics, and music, and the other person does the scripting and mapping. Something like that.
As to the difficulties of keeping the versions between people up to date, I recommend using an svn client. They work for more than just programs. And, yes, two people may not be compatible in a project, but you just have to take a chance and try. (By the way: yes, I'm an optimist which is funny considering my choice of pseudonym). Splitting the work is an option, but you'd have to remember to work out each individuals strengths and weaknesses, not just randomly assign tasks. Skull has a point that D-mods might not be finished even if you have many people. What he fails to note however is an increase in likelihood. Any project with multiple people has an increased chance of being finished proportionate to the number of people involved. This is because of the increased psychological pressures involved as extra people come into play. Or put simply: the more people there are, the more people you let down if you fail or quit. No one wants to look like a jerk!
Increase in people will increase the likelihood of the project being finished. But it will also increase the likelihood of it not being finished.
Ok, maybe I need to play the other side a little here to make my point.
Why are projects with more than one person NOT getting finished? Most likely, I'd say they are just not well organised, in general. Look at projects that are finished: they boast clear leadership, clear planning, and clear purpose. Now this is a GUESS, I have not had a chance to chat with any of the dinkers involved in 2 or more man projects, but I think mostly they get together with a vague idea of what the mod they are trying to make is and poke at it randomly together until it just falls apart. So what I would suggest, if you would like to try working together is:
* Establish clear leadership: The person who first had the idea for the mod is the boss. Ideas must be approved by them, and they say what will or will not work for what they have in mind.
* Establish a clear plan: Write the story line FIRST. Not necessarily the dialogue, but all the general events that happen in the story. It can be changed for as new ideas come up, but it will at least give you somewhere to start.
* Make clear a firm purpose: Say "this story is about such and such". Be it time travel, acquiring certain magic, the outcome of a certain war, whatever! There needs to be one well defined central idea. It is the backbone of a good story. Even if you change the story line, this idea should remain constant, or the whole project will become a confused shambles.
Why are projects with more than one person NOT getting finished? Most likely, I'd say they are just not well organised, in general. Look at projects that are finished: they boast clear leadership, clear planning, and clear purpose. Now this is a GUESS, I have not had a chance to chat with any of the dinkers involved in 2 or more man projects, but I think mostly they get together with a vague idea of what the mod they are trying to make is and poke at it randomly together until it just falls apart. So what I would suggest, if you would like to try working together is:
* Establish clear leadership: The person who first had the idea for the mod is the boss. Ideas must be approved by them, and they say what will or will not work for what they have in mind.
* Establish a clear plan: Write the story line FIRST. Not necessarily the dialogue, but all the general events that happen in the story. It can be changed for as new ideas come up, but it will at least give you somewhere to start.
* Make clear a firm purpose: Say "this story is about such and such". Be it time travel, acquiring certain magic, the outcome of a certain war, whatever! There needs to be one well defined central idea. It is the backbone of a good story. Even if you change the story line, this idea should remain constant, or the whole project will become a confused shambles.
I like the way you think! But I must say, it's very different from what I've seen of the DN's culture, so I don't know how well that approach would catch on. Dinkers take their game making very casually. I haven't read a lot of the archives though, so I could be wrong.
That's what most people do around here, when involved in multi-man project, but they still fall apart. Probably because Dinkers don't have too many real-life friends who are actually interested in Dink or can create D-Mods with it, we turn to ask help from people from around the world, which just ain't going to work.
Those who have real-life friends who are interested and know stuff about Dink, sometimes are able to finish their multi-man project, but even still, it usually falls apart for some weird reason. Why? Honestly, I don't know, but I'd think it's because Dink really doesn't need more working on it than mapping and scripting, which one person is fully capable of by himself.
Those who have real-life friends who are interested and know stuff about Dink, sometimes are able to finish their multi-man project, but even still, it usually falls apart for some weird reason. Why? Honestly, I don't know, but I'd think it's because Dink really doesn't need more working on it than mapping and scripting, which one person is fully capable of by himself.
You missed the most important point: persistance to get it done. December this year I'll be with the Dink Network for 10 years so I've seen a fair share of these projects. Ideas for Dink 2 and Dink Online come up regularly (more frequently the last few years). The reason nothing happens is that most projects fail within a few months (usually sooner).
I'm working on a crossword editor for more than a year now. It's still not done. Can you imagine working on something as big as Dink 2 or Dink Online for years? Because that's what you're looking at. You'll need to keep writing code, making 3D models for years until it's done. You'll also need to compose a team and keep working together until you have something decent.
I'm working on a crossword editor for more than a year now. It's still not done. Can you imagine working on something as big as Dink 2 or Dink Online for years? Because that's what you're looking at. You'll need to keep writing code, making 3D models for years until it's done. You'll also need to compose a team and keep working together until you have something decent.
