The Dink Network

This was in the news recently;

What do you think?

Considering the lack of liquid water and no plant life I'd say there can't be animals on the martian surface. However it could be underground and occasionally comes to the surface.

Even though the chances of it actually being alive are thin at best I will be surprised when I hear what it actually is assuming it's something non-living. Perhaps different rocks at different distances that appear together from one angle.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

Ehhh...

nice.

I agree. So womans are made in Mars ?! :/

Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus.

boys acutally come from colledge to get more knowledge girls do come from venus but only to get more PE.NIS!

Mars needs women.

They could be rocks, and they probably are, but since Mars once WAS a livable planet it's possible something survived somehow. You never really know with planets like these, I guess.

Agree completely, it does look like it's coming from the rock on the front (sitting on it =) but things like that are bound to be found when you picture a lot of rocks.

The mysterious holes are also worth thinking about, who knows what might be found inside.

-1

Quite a cool picture. And what about the Mysterious Ghostly Child in a party photo?

And what about this weird thing that keeps popping up whenever I post? It's getting really annoyi..... nevermind, it's my avatar.

Spooky. Spooky spooky spooky. But, it could just be some sort of reporter's trick.

I know. It just started popping up all of a sudden and.... oh. You were talking about the topic.

Seriously, it does like some sort of rock formation. At first I thought it was a real woman, but then after zooming in it looks like a bunch of rocks. A bunch of rocks that do impressions, but still, rocks.

the pic with the woman could just me animated

i believe i am in a big mess... that 'woman' is my top secret project i have deployed amongst the planets... oops i have said too much

krisknox is at -1 warnings already?! Poor man, Striker's going to kick his ass!

She looks hot... Unless it's just a rock, but I mean... Like that would really stop you.

the ghost is double exposure in the photo digitals too

I would say the same, except that was a digital photo.

The rocks look like sand people and yeah I reckon they are rocks.

how can you even tell the gender of an alien lifeform (if it even is living) since alien anatomy is completely different and maybe there is only one gender... a race of asexuals? or maybe they are both asexual and sexual, with both parts (kinda like flowers)

what if it isn't living?

How do you know there are aliens and their anatomy is completely different? You don't. The title is just to catch people's attention and they mean it looks like a female human.

Really anything is viable. Who says they have to 'look' like anything? They could be made out of a certain substance that is unreadable by our eyes. We could be living amongst them and not even know. There are billions of possibilities only limited by your imagination. I heard a quote a lil while ago that I like in this situation. "Whether we are alone or not in this galaxy; either choice boggles the mind to consider." Thats paraphrased of course but you get the point...

There are no such things as aliens. Don't try to argue with me because I'll just kill your computer if you do.

I don't believe in aliens either but you can't stop other people from doing so and you shouldn't threaten them for saying they do either.

Not believing in aliens is pretty stupid if you ask me, there are so many millions of planets and solar systems out there you just can't rule out the possibility.

What I'm not really believing is that there is still intelligent life on Mars anymore: there might have been, but the conditions on Mars have been "unlivable" for millions of years now so something really special should have happened for the life forms to have survived or adapted.

Being Christian, I say that the Universe has not been around for millions/billions of years, but thousands. And I still believe there's no such thing as aliens, and nothing you say will change my opinion.

...and nothing you say will change my opinion.

That's a common characteristic among religious people though...

"And then there are fossils, when anyone tries to tell me (the earth) was made in seven days, I reach for a fossil and say 'fossil.' And if they keep talking I throw it just over their head."
-Lewis Black.

One of my favorite quotes.

I agree. And where do they get off with this nonsense about the earth revolving around the sun? The Bible clearly implies a geocentric universe. Forget Copernicus, no one has ever disproven the Ptolemaic system.

Close this thread. Now. This will go nowhere. When it comes to Godwin, religion is the new Hitler.

You're too young to fully understand the impact and concepts of religion. Just let it rest until you've fully matured, and then we'll see what you believe. Of course, the fact that you believe now suggests that you have a family or relatives who believe, and thus you are a product of their beliefs, and not a product of your own reflection and contemplation upon the matters.

As I said, unless they completely manage to brainwash you, give the whole religious thing a thorough thinking through when you're old enough, and you might discover a thing or two. If you find yourself turning defensive over what I've just written, don't worry. That'll pass once you grow older, as long as you keep an open mind. Just never forget to keep an open mind.

Hate to break it to you, but the DN isn't subject to your demands, heathen.

/is personally fine with this thread continuing.

My brother goes to uni and he learnt that carbon dating only works accurately up to about 150 years or so. It may have been more but it certainly doesn't prove if something is thousands of years old.

Even if the universe has been around for only thousands of years (although there's plenty of evidence against that kind of thing), there are still billions of solar systems, indicating life on other planets is quite possible.

You know, the Universe has SOOOOOOO many planets and it's even bigger you can think it is. So, it would be VERY stupid if we, humans, in this tiny planet we call Earth, would be the only ones who live here!!

And DinkDude, if you're christian, it doesn't mean you are always right. I say, that God doesn't exist cause there are so many other "how earth got born" stories.

I think God pretty much rules your life, if you only believe in Him!! You know, such a guy up on the sky yealling: "Hey, I command the World!" is just a stupid idea of humans. Get to live with it!

And, I say, that aliens, or whatever they call theirself, are really living, and not any Gods!! Why do I believe in aliens? Read what I wrote earlier on this post!!

Protip: Relative error and Percentile Error, read up on it.

I demand an ice cream!

Being Christian does not dictate your opinion, though. You're allowed to have opinions and draw conclusions that might differ from the Bible without it necessarily making you somehow unreligious. In most Christian communities, anyway - there are some more puristic views, I admit...

So any argument that goes "Being Christian, I must quote this as my personal opinion" is somewhat suspicious. Own your opinions and beliefs, don't make your religious background responsible - it's not.

Note: owning your opinions will grant you lots of respect, 'cause that implies you've done some thinking related to them. It's also OK to say "I think this is so, but I'm not sure". It's better than "I must believe this and never budge."

I've had bad enough life, so DO NOT tell me what to do!! If there was a God he would have saved my face!!

I believe Sharp and Phoenix pretty much nailed it on the head.
You're allowed to believe whatever you want; the only problem is when people take things merely on the word of someone else. You're not stupid (I hope) I'm sure anyone here can form a basic view of how the world got started or reasons why there is or isn't life on other planets without the help of a centuries old books or religious fanatics assaulting you with sensory terrorism. As you can probably tell from that last statement I am not a fan of 'organized' religion. But that's beside the point.

I think the sooner our society can get away from this vicious cycle of passing down their religious beliefs on to the impressionable next generations of the world the better.

I believe most of us don't need religion to be happy anymore. Narrow minded thinking and spending precious lives in preperation for something nobody can know even exists can only slow progress with little or no benefit (fulfillment) for individuals. Many a year ago, life for the vast majority of people was, for want of better wording, pretty shootty. Widespread poverty, famines, plagues and all of that jazz were rife with no end in sight. Nowadays, we still have these things, but we are also much closer to solving these massive problems. We should stop relying on an afterlife for things to get better and accept that this could well be all we've got. Lets make the best of it, no?

Just my, perhaps contrived thoughts on the matter (I come from a family of people, with the exception of one, who are all athiest/agnostic/somewhere in between. I feel strongly about my beliefs, just as the guy who sparked off this debate (dinkdude?). That's not to say I havn't thought a lot about the matter, I have, as I'm sure dinkdude has. To him, my beliefs would perhaps seem silly, as his to me. Maybe I'm the brainwashed one here, even though I'm sure I'm not... Just a thought) .

p.s. Sorry for not being the most articulate writer. I'm pretty dang wrecked and I'm not really at the best of times.

i am an athiest who has been raised to my desire (spoilt a little...) and have been tought to beleive what i want... so my parents let me grow up to be who i want to be, not who they want me to be.

i have learnt to respect religion so i am not going to argue with any 'fundamentalists' out there

even in a catholic school they teach that the bible has a few 'tall stories', and that we shouldn't beleive everything in it. (at least my old primary school did. i'm in grade 7 this year)

The Bible is described as the inspired word of God and people who say they are Christians but don't believe in some parts of the Bible are just as bad as the Mormons or any other kind of cult. Taking the parts of Christianity that you like and disregarding the rest doesn't make you a Christian.

It's true that some of the Bible is literal and some figurative which is why there is so much discussion and arguing between people like Catholics, Protestants and Mormons which is a good reason to take advice from others but believe what you want.

You're too young to fully understand the impact and concepts of religion.

Pheonix, I understand why you think that, but I have thought about it. Now, I'm not 'fanatical' as in "Look! That guy just hit a Christian! Let's bomb Iraq!" But I do understand, and I think I am mature enough. I may not act like it all the time, and I'm sure you'll all agree, but I am.

Being Christian does not dictate your opinion, though. You're allowed to have opinions and draw conclusions that might differ from the Bible without it necessarily making you somehow unreligious.

I said before, I'm not majorly fanatical, like Muslims, but I do believe what is in the Bible.

Oh, and about all that not-true stuff in the Bible, they're called 'Parables', told by Jesus to demonstrate certain scenarios. Say, for example the commonly known Parable about the man who built his house on stone, and the man who built his house on sand. There was a storm, the sand house was destroyed, but the rock house stayed safe. The rock dude is like someone who has a firm belief in Jesus Christ. It may be hard work to get, but in the end, you're better off.

Oh, and didn't I say something like: Nothing you say will change my opinion.?

By the way, I didn't mean to start a major debate, but I feel glad, that I did.

Trust me, you didn't start a debate. This debate has and will go on forever.

Hades: I have to disagree with you there. No two people can read the bible and get the same thing out of it. So therefore by what you said, no one is a christian. The bible is not a historical account by any measure; it is, however, a good book to base morals off of. My only real pet peeve with the bible is the old world language it is written in. Yes there are modern versions, but they lose a lot of meaning in the translation. Most people can't read the bible and get anything from it cause they can't understand what it is saying.

DinkDude: I feel sorry for you then; everyone here has a belief one way or the other, but to close yourself off by saying "nothing you say can change my mind" seriously hinders your ability to learn...anything.

Vortex no get the joke?

I wasn't being completely serious when saying "Nothing you say will change my opinion". I was kinda joking. Glad you understood.

Well the third or fourth time you say it, it kinda starts to take on a truth. Sarcasm doesn't exist in text form.

I'm not majorly fanatical, like Muslims

Wow. Just wow.
I'm gonna give you a chance to read that over again, and say something different.

Watch out Chrispy...it may be sarcasm. Seems to be a sarcastically volatile area

I am sorry, moustly DinkDude, and everyone. I had one of my bad days, which I don't want to talk about here, and it was possibly the worst day i've ever had. So, I'm sorry, if I would tell you, you may would understand better, but I don't really wanna tell you.

So yet again, I'm sorry.

Anyways, I see SimonK right now lurking this page. Is he coming back? There was a posting by him a little time ago.

I'm not majorly fanatical, like Muslims.

...

Chrispy is the first person to comment on this... Is this a common attitude in America? That's not to say we don't get the same kind of thing in the UK, but I really don't think its too common (BNP, The Sun and others may change my opinion).

Remember, ALL generalisations are stupid.

Oh and @ vortex who said the bible was great to base morals on, it was some WEIRD shoot in it:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations … then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. (Deuteronomy 7:1-2)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Then Moses said, 'Anyone who will not listen to that Prophet will be cut off from God's people and utterly destroyed.' (Acts 3:23 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

The list goes on (Leviticus 20:13 NAB (kill fabulouss)), and on (Isaiah 14:21 NAB (kill sinner's sons)) and on (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB (God is a dickhead, really)).

Unfortunately, I don't actually have my own bible, but I have found multiple sources for all these quotes.

Most quotes are from http://www.evilbible.com, then compared against multiple other sources via google (I know not the most reliable method... If anybody can check these things out, just so we can be 100% sure of their reliability that would be good).

The only thing I trust in the bible is 'do on to others as you would be done by, and I didn't need a 1700 year old book to tell me that. When it comes to euthanasia, abortion, punishment and other difficult issues, can we really trust a book that says theese terrible things?

Haha, yeah, I think the bible makes a horrible moral guide. The old testament is filled with stuff like that and the new testament has it's share too. God himself is a very unsympathetic fellow for the most part, it's also clearly implied that multiple gods exist in the old testament.

Penn & Teller had a nice quote about it, I'll look it up~

"Whatever you do, don't read the bible for a moral code: it advocates prejudice, cruelty, superstition, and murder. Read it because we need more atheists, and nothing will get you there faster than reading the dang bible."

Well, DinkDude, it's not necessarily about understanding the concepts in Christianity but it's more about religion in general: why does religion exist and what consequences does it have when you come to accept the authority of a text, of a preacher or of a fellow group of believers. It's like Phoenix said: keeping an open mind is very important as it may turn out that reality and the old religious texts don't quite agree with each other.

I'm not a christian, and really could care less if the bible was one giant satanic ritual. However, one thing I do know is that you can't quote the bible like that. Like I said earlier, it's so old and written in such a ancient vernacular that taking quotes like that out of context can be confusing. I'm not saying that all those quotes, if examined, can be proven to be innocent; I'm just saying that in most instances, that is the case.

In my experience, even though they have the bible, christians have not been the most moral people through history; however, no religion is perfect. Actually, Wiccans (at least to me) have been some of the nicest people and are great friends. Now classifying one religion as friendly and one not is wrong, I'm just speaking on my own behalf. At least I am not fanatical like Muslims

It's a good point vortex, but how could a quote like Leviticus 20:13 NAB (If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives) ever, EVER be seen as innocent? There are people who believe this bullcrap and act on it. It's rare indeed, and the individual would no doubt already be quite touched, but put it this way:

Would you take moral advice from somene who says that any man who sleeps with another male should be killed? Let your kids be taught by a book that teaches this? Nowadays, if a politician were to say things like that, he would be in a lot of trouble (recently, Nick Griffin, leader of the BNP narrowly avoided prison for inciting racial hatred and wht he said was not as extreem as above), and rightly so (boo freedom, yay equality).

Edit: I'm not a christian, and really could care less if the bible was one giant satanic ritual.

Oh yeah, I really could care. With however many millions of people believing it to be the sacred truth, the word of god it's simply insane to not care, even a little if its telling people to go out and kill homosexuals, witches and whoever else.

Being from Norn Iron, a country that still seems to revolve around religious hatred (I'm actually gonna punch the next person who asks me if I'm a catholic or a protestant) I know how much religion can effect people. Communities split up, families torn apart from violence or murders. Religion is causing more harm than good. If people are so goddang thick that you need a book to tell you the difference between right and wrong then whadya expect?

Sorry, but the whole deal is just really making me angry.

I also know a very sound Wiccan.

it is not just 'parables' like for example the 99 sheep, but there are more parts of the bible that have a few 'extra details'

i am not here to argue though, so DD95 can beleive in everything in the bible like a fundamentalist if he wants. this discussion reminds me about the time when another 12 yr old asked me if santa was real or not... of course he still believed

Wow. Just wow.
I'm gonna give you a chance to read that over again, and say something different.

What? They blow up Restaurants, they bomb countries, and it usually has something to do with their religion.

You say they as if every Muslim is a terrorist. That's just plain ignorance. You can't put a label on a group just because a handful do something stupid. Every belief (religious or non) has it's own radical faction(s). You can't say that all Muslims are radical, that is very far from the truth.

My brother-in-law has this Bible and 3/4 of the page is alternate translations and words so yes, the Bible shouldn't be taken word for word exactly and the meanings can be very different in another language/culture. Some of the Bible is also instructions for the people mentioned there, not direct instructions on morality or how we should live our lives.

Extreme Christians had the crusades, extreme muslims have jihads... I'm sure the other big contenders have their own flavor of killing.

And Spacehoggy, i agree for the most part. As a kid, I was forced to go to church (i see this causes many people's aversion to religion also) so I have some experience with the bible. And yes, I see how some parts of the bible are not what I would use to raise children off of; however, I wouldn't exactly call it a book of filth. But yes it is sad that people can figure it out on their own the difference between right and wrong.

But isn't this why religion was 'created' in the first place? People needed answers to questions that no one could. So what happened? They created a deity, something that would answer their questions. The only thing that has ever really amazed me about religion, is the power of the human imagination. The ability to reason this out in your head. I have always thought that maybe I was stupid cause I couldn't understand how someone could believe that there is some...man, spirit, thing...looking down on us like a kid with a magnifying glass looking down on ants. I don't know, I guess we will find out who is right and who is wrong when we die, right?

You're letting the media tell you what to think. There are over 1.6 billion Muslims, so if they were all as fanatical as you think, civilization wouldn't exist.

Does anyone remember the "Bomb Iraq!" topic?

No?

Does anyone still remember the topic about women on Mars at least?

There was a topic about women on mars? All I know is that there is this fancy new topic about religion. I think the subject line is "woman found in"...uh oh...

p.s. I went back and reviewed the Bomb iraq thread just to relive some old memories and I found one of my favorite quotes from this forum. For those of you that weren't here when okalyddude frequented the board you may not find this as funny as others will.

"meh... i've been kinda away from the boards for a while.. and i'm too lazy to flame all the morons and don't have time to read their drivel.. so uh, just assume that right now, if you're an idiot, i'm calling you an idiot."

The martian woman is crying right now guys.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

Don't you just hate it when god comes in to steal your spot light...

She's crying rocks?

I quite liked this topic, and I think we can still squeeze a little life out of it if we try, like some sort of religious discussion containing toothpaste tube.

So yeah, heres a thought that vaugly relates to the fndamentalism discussion earlier; What if faith is less of something that depends on our imagination as Vortex put it, but more of an evouloutionary pre-disposed 'sheep' mentality. The reasoning behind this is that there are so few 'fundamentalists', while a large portion of people would say they are positive god exists, as well as heaven, hell and all that stuff. Well, if you were 100% sure you were going to win a bet, would't you put more than a tenner on it? Course not, you would put everything you can find on it, which is precisely why it baffles me why there are so few so called religious 'extremists' out there. If I was sure it was for the greater good and therefore get me to heaven, I'd do whatever the bible told me to. Kill homosexuals, burn witches... You get the idea.

Picking and chosing from your scripture is like playing chicken with eternal dangation, and if its eternal bliss, 4x (47 or 42? I can't remember.. Aw well) virgins or simply to avouid burning in a lake of sulphur, surely it makes sense to follow everything you interpret from the bible as closely as possile.

Of course if would be benificial for society if all these 'extremists' werent so murderous and whatnot, but what they do makes perfect sense. Much more sensible to live a life of chastity, treating women as inferior and to beat up fabulous people (depending of course on your interpretations of the bible, providing you ommited <u>nothing</u than to go to church an odd sunday.

But yeah... I've smoked a lot of blow today, so if anyody feels like poking holes in my argument, please do so.

...as it may turn out that reality and the old religious texts don't quite agree with each other.

Heh. A friend of mine (who is doing a Physics major) is a born-again Christian and a preacher in his community. A really nice guy. Every once in a while, he lets us in on how great the Bible is. The Bible apparently tells about the sea currents, the big bang and it even prevents the mass of all electrons in the university (or a similar quantity - I have to confess I've forgot what it was, but it was in a verse that spoke of "all the dust of earth").

I'm absolutely certain he will not find any phenomenon in modern day physics that would somehow be against the Bible. Which is fine by me. He seems to be confident in his faith and have a pretty consistent view of the world.

The only thing that bugs me is that it's all coming from someone else - it's not like he discovered that the sentence in the Bible was describing the big bang. Then again, most of what I hold to be true is coming from someone else. I doubt anybody can do all of the thinking himself without ever being influenced by others... it's just a nice ideal. I'll admit I'm not living up to it

Yup, religion is just another excuse to indulge in tribalistic idiocies.

Yes, most people haven't read the Bible cover to cover (myself included) but it isn't really that long. I'm sure you could find a book on some religious debate or even a book on some computer language that's longer and yet people pretend to know everything about it. If you hear something about Christianity that you don't quite believe you should always check with the Bible because that's where the whole religion stems from.

i dont bother to read those books on computer language. the two languages i use the most don't have any books (that i know of) so i just write a bit of code-check the help files to see if i can do what i want to do and eventually pick it up like that

and i doubt anyone would have enough time on their hands to be able to read through the entire bible. if you HAVE read it cover to cover please discuss your thoughts about what you read here

and i doubt anyone would have enough time on their hands to be able to read through the entire bible.

Yes, you go live in your little fantasy world... of course there are people who read the whole thing. There are even people who read the whole thing several times. And they're not that few, really.

And what two languages is it that you use, then? I'm sure there are books on them.

Talking about this, brings an old Weird Al song to mind. Amish Paradise. And there's one line which goes: "I'll be laughing my head off when you're burning in hell!"

Nothing quite like fear to ensure your faith, eh?

Actually, I'm pretty sure that in numerous places in the Bible it says "You are to fear the LORD" or something like that.

Even if it does, that still doesn't invalidate my point.

i dont get how it is supposed to 'invalidate' your post it is actually supporting it. and why are we supposed to fear this guy that is apparently three different things at once-a dove, a dead guy, and another guy who says he is all-powerful

Yes, it does support my post, which is why I said it doesn't invalidate it. Though, I may have misinterpreted his intent and he was agreeing with me. That he has been frightened into faith is something I find to be reprehensible on a personal level.

Striker, I wasn't frightened into faith. Don't be daft.

And FireBall, you got it wrong. God is three: Father, Spirit, Son. Father = God. Sprit = The Holy Spirit. Son = Jesus.

Geez, get your facts right.

You were indoctrinated into it, fear just helps you stay there.

And you may find some disagreement with that "fact".

Spirit=Dove
Jesus=Crucified (In other words DEAD)
Father=How Can Someone Be All Powerful

i have my facts more correct than you DD95, and i am an athiest. seems to me that someone doesnt even understand what they dedicate their entire life to. how stupid to live your life believing in something you dont know much about?

What on Earth? What do you mean I don't know much about it. If you know more than me, why are you an 'atheist'?

Anyway, I reckon Atheists are just scared of facing the truth. Atheists hate God, right? So they must think he's real, they have to, otherwise they couldn't hate him. So, the only reason that they hate him, must be because they're afraid of facing the truth, they wanna be cool, they wanna do bad things, look at bad stuff, etc. That's my opinion, anyway.

And FireBall, go insult your ass.

*Cough*

Atheists don't hate God. Your post states exactly the opposite of the truth.

Much to learn, young padawan! It's rather obvious that you know little to nothing about atheism or related world views. Now you don't have to agree on what non-believers say but at least get your facts correct (e.g., don't go to Conservapedia when you want to read something about the world )

Athiests hate god...?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha... I'm sorry, but that's probably the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while - and I know teenagers.

Ha.

Atheism: 1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2. a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (i.e. Some atheists claim to "Excercise no belief in a god" the same way they would exercise no belief in pink unicorns.)
Also see: George Carlin

But what about the blue ones? o.O?

i dont hate god, since i dont believe in him. and how can i be scared to face the fact i am going to hell when there is no such thing? many religions state they have beliefs, all of which claiming to be true. i think none are true. and i am totally un-cool, i am considered a nerd and i actually take that as a compliment. and about bad stuff? apparently, just being ALIVE is a sin. yep, that's right, as soon as you're born, you have 'original sin' (i am not sure of the name so dont insult me DD95 i know more than you) so why would you care? no-bodies perfect and if such a 'heaven' existed than no-body would be able to go there! of course there is reconcilliation but you shouldnt have to be religious to be forgiven, or to forgive someone. and i am not THAT bad... honest!

and why do i know so much? because i have gone to a catholic school. i am one of the few that went at an older age (i went to a catholic school at grade 2) and didnt get BRAINWASHED like everyone else. non-catholics even got baptised once they started going there!

the reason i left was because
a. my old school was a peice of shoot
b. my father decided i should go there instead because he went to that same catholic school. BTW he isnt catholic either

and i would insult my ass, but there isnt much to insult about it. oh and, about being 'bad' you are one heck of a bad catholic, using bad language go pray to your 'god' and hope he forgives you. HAVE A NICE DAY!! ...not

When did I say I was catholic? And besides, I was hoping the swear filter would kick in.

no-bodies perfect and if such a 'heaven' existed than no-body would be able to go there!

A-ha! That's where you're are completely wrong! If you believe that Jesus came to the world, died, and rose again (I just proved that he's not 'some dead guy') and you accept you're a sinner, you ask God for forgiveness, and you actually believe what's in the Bible, (you don't just say "I'm a Christian!" but not do anything) then you will go to heaven.

but you shouldnt have to be religious to be forgiven, or to forgive someone.

You don't have to be. Say you accidentally hurt a kid at school, if it was an accident, saying sorry and meaning it is enough, it's over and done with. But if you purposely hurt the kid, you should say sorry and ask him/her to forgive you.

Four words, "To each his own." I love this debate but it all boils down to the fact that no two people share the same belief. You may claim the same religion but if you really break it down everyone finds differences eventually.

My own flavor of "religion," if you can call it that, is a mix of several philosophies. This is probably because I am a very open thinking person and accumulate what I experience into my belief, which basically means it changes slightly from day to day.

Anyway, back to the topic.

This is one problem I have with Christianity, ambivalence. Christians to me are like car salesmen. If I buy a car I want to pay what that big yellow sticker says on front windsheild. However, upon buying it, I find taxes, title fees, financing fees, etc. Every 'recruiter' from the baptists that I have ever run into claim this "ABC's of Christianity" BS. Admit Believe and Commit and you are forever saved by the grace of Jehovah almighty, bathed in the blood of jesus christ. Thats not true, and you are seriously hindered in formal thought patterns if you think thats all.
believe what's in the Bible, (you don't just say "I'm a Christian!" but not do anything) most of the bible in up for interpretation. If the bible tells me to drown anyone who doesn't believe in the power of Yahweh does that put me in the clear? You could just say that "The bible only preaches good works" but then your preacher tells you that good works can't get you into heaven. I have no problem with god, I don't believe in god, but anyone that believes in him is cool with me. Its religion that ducks it all up. Lenny Bruce (one of the greatest comics of all time) said "Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God."

So you're saying that if you don't believe in God you simply hate him? That's pretty stupid.

dinkdude protists and bactirium
(a.k.a. germs) are sometimes considered aliens

Hehe. Awesome, Scratcher.

A-ha! That's where you're are completely wrong! If you believe that Jesus came to the world, died, and rose again (I just proved that he's not 'some dead guy') and you accept you're a sinner, you ask God for forgiveness, and you actually believe what's in the Bible, (you don't just say "I'm a Christian!" but not do anything) then you will go to heaven.

Please re-read Vortex's post DinkDude95, that's not the point he was making: the point is that when you're born, you're, by default, destined to go to hell. Due to the original sin, all are sinners and therefore, all should go to hell (unless they ask forgiveness et cetera). This is why the pope and friends have such difficulty explaining what happens to children that die at a very young age because they're a sinner (therefore: hell) but they've been unable to ask for forgiveness.

finnaly, someone who [u]understands[/u]. and so what if jesus rose again? the mythical necromancers were capable of raising the dead, just like god. so if you believe in christianity, why not necromancers? or fairies? (no SK not fabulous) or maybe even santa? (BTW does anyone here still get stuff from 'santa'? i dont want to offend any childrens belief) i guess you can believe in any of those things if you want, i'm not stopping you. sure, they could exist, but i have evidence against lots of beliefs. if there is only one true god, that already rules out the greeks and egyptians. and christianity conflicts with all other monolific religions. so if any form of christianity were true than every other religion outside of christianity would be false. most beliefs therefore could not possibly exist in the fundamentalists point of view.

furthermore, if such a god existed than why did he create the world with such hellish entities? i thought that he would be smart enough to make ppl not stray away? or is that too controlling and considered a 'sin'? why did god make train wrecks? kill thousands of 'innocent' ppl? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON??? maybe he is too busy looking after someone else. BUT! i thought god could see everyone and everything at once? well 1. that rules out business 2. how is that even possible.

anyone got any evidence to support my claim OR to support DD95? i would love to hear from you

remember i have done debating before...

furthermore, if such a god existed than why did he create the world with such hellish entities? i thought that he would be smart enough to make ppl not stray away? or is that too controlling and considered a 'sin'? why did god make train wrecks? kill thousands of 'innocent' ppl? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON??? maybe he is too busy looking after someone else. BUT! i thought god could see everyone and everything at once? well 1. that rules out business 2. how is that even possible.

He wants to show how powerful he is when he destroys all evil, and saves all the good guys.

This is why the pope and friends have such difficulty explaining what happens to children that die at a very young age because they're a sinner (therefore: hell) but they've been unable to ask for forgiveness.

Not true. All young children who die, go to heaven. Unless they are super-smart and have the ability to understand and believe. A two year old who dies, is most likely to go to heaven, but a six or seven year old is not, unless they are Christian, as they have the ability to understand, and believe.

remember i have done debating before...

So has pretty much everyone above the age of ten, so that doesn't make you special.

He wants to show how powerful he is when he destroys all evil, and saves all the good guys.

I'd say this is an ad hoc argument: in my opinion, there's no real reason to think God would need to do this to show off his might. There are dozens of other ways God would be able to interact with his creation in a more peaceful way (I think explaining evil is a struggling issue for most religious world views anyway).

Not true. All young children who die, go to heaven. Unless they are super-smart and have the ability to understand and believe. A two year old who dies, is most likely to go to heaven, but a six or seven year old is not, unless they are Christian, as they have the ability to understand, and believe.

That may be your view but read a bit about the Limbo of Infants for example, a hypothetical place/state after death to explain what happens to these infants. Why would the original sin only 'apply' until the child has reached a certain age or capability of understanding the issue?

For this reason, I've been able to argue that a person with a (severe) mental disability might be better off in the end: he doesn't understand the problem of original sin/forgiveness so even though he may live here on earth in misery (or at least with limitations), his eternal life would be in heaven because he was unable to make the right or wrong decision (and it would be wrong for God to condemn to hell those who were unable to make the decision).

The Forces of Lol and Rofl have convened and brought to us a thread of great hilarity.

Amen brother Tal.

Saying that god wants to "show off his power" is completely wrong because "showing off" is not a very "godly" thing to do. Actually sounds very human to me. If god does exist he isn't a benevolent and merciful god, he is quite the opposite. In fact if he is all powerful, and if he is all knowing; he has pretty much ducked up. At this point most "people" would of pulled out the old eraser and start over. This whole thread just keeps making me think of George Carlin and Lenny Bruce's old stand-ups...fun stuff

i agree that is so totally ducked up and what about non christians who never heard of sin?

You know what?
Hitler was religious, that's what.

Hihi, argumentum ad Hitlerum!

Religious people are just like the Nazis.

Battleground God. If you've never heard of this "game", I suggest you take a look. This is not a game as such, and does not contain offensive material, it's more of a check-up on how consistent your view of god and the world is. (Also fits atheists, I think, so don't hesitate to try it out)

I got me more hits than I was hoping for, but that's just life.
Edit: So that's 2 hits and one bullet for me.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=513855&in_page_id=1811

It's enLIGHTening!

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

Yum Yum. I love biting bullets. (2)

As we are not discussing something that has a definite yes or no answer then getting angry or annoyed because someone is contradicting you will only result in more anger. Perhaps if people didn't contradict others that have voiced their own beliefs we would have a more sensible discussion here. Also saying something as fact (as close as you can get when talking about religions) when you don't actually know will undoubtedly cause strong disagreement and contradictions.

Religious people are just like the Nazis.
Please people, let's not start to insult each other. It's clearly that no christians will stop beliving, and no atheist will start.
On my opinion, this topic is pointless.
I suggest some staff should close it.

I suggest you go back to your Commie pals, cypry.

Being serious for a moment, but I feel the need to explain that I've been joking around quite a lot in this thread. I know Sabre gets it, but I know some of you who I actually like haven't, so I'm just throwing that out there.

People, Joking around on the tubes? Hersay!

Alas, my dear friend, that be reality for ye.

0 bullets, 1 hit... I misread the rapist question, I thought it asked if it was justifiable that he believed he was doing what god willed him to, not if it was justifiable for him to rape and whatnot. Argh.

Was Hitler not a wiccan or something? Eh, I don't really care, it's insignificant.

furthermore, if such a god existed than why did he create the world with such hellish entities? i thought that he would be smart enough to make ppl not stray away? or is that too controlling and considered a 'sin'? why did god make train wrecks? kill thousands of 'innocent' ppl? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON??? maybe he is too busy looking after someone else. BUT! i thought god could see everyone and everything at once? well 1. that rules out business 2. how is that even possible.

Ah, it's all part of Gods plan, my son. Which we oh so conveniently don't have the power to understand as mere men, but trust me - don't question, argue or doubt - God knows what he's doing. Just keep working hard and giving to the church... God knows what he's doing.

Sopposedinly god is everywhere, everything and everyone, But this just makes god the biggest pervert in the know UNIVERESE!
P.S. Im more into science. Or DDC. Or some other dink-religion. Or cheese.

I think you mean "supposedly"?

Haha, I found that more amusing than I'm supposed too.

*BUMP*

Given the chance, I am going to take advantage of it.

This is a "alien thread" so if you're interested in aliens, I found a really curious video. It has some really interesting things in it, which most of you probably haven't head about. It's here.

I was wondering WTF is a link to a friggin Maltese paper doing on TDN. Necro-ducker.

This is why Necromancy is illegal in Elder Scrolls.

Yes, because they hate Maltese.

Just to be an arse absolution necromancy isn't illegal in tamriel it's prohibited within the mages guild. This was done as soon as Hannibal traven was elected to be arch-Mage. Though necrophilia is illeagle the fine is 500 gold for the first offense apperently small compared to morriwinds. But back to the subject necromancy is secretive because it is frowned upon so people do not admit to openly practice it. I created a new character due to the resent conversation and he's a fire spewing skooma addict.

Meh, guess I was thinking of Morrowind then. I believe it was illegal there. Even the Imperials wanted them gone.

Hehe - I'm installing Oblivion on my new HDD as I type Can you actually become a Necromancer in Oblivion? Coz I want to be one

ZOMG sharp was in this thread! <Drools a little bit>

You've already made your perverssion very well aware, Zeddexx. No need for more.

beow chika wah wah

What?
Some particular person won't like this.

who wont like what?

Hehehe.