The Dink Network

Okay. We've made progress enough to begin licensing the Windemere engine. Chances are we aren't going to use the GPL as it's too restrictive: it can be concluded that the GPL only offers rights for the end user - the distributor gets very limited ones. I had my eye on the Mozilla Public License (MPL v. 1.1), available here: MPL 1.1, and would like to hear any comments about this.

You're probably wondering what we have done. Here's the list:

* OpenGL graphic interface
* Image loading is functional (It can load the Loading screen)
* Resource Server manages lost, wasted, or unallocated memory
* Input from the keyboard is fully recognized and can convert to the Dink key system.
* Input from the mouse is recognized.
* Joystick is recognized but is not yet functional.
* Kernel and other modules are singleton objects and can interact with each other.

The source code remains closed to the public. If you'd like, here's some information about what it uses:

* Open GL
* SDL
* SDL_image
* Image rotozoom functions from SDL_gfx.
* Zlib
* libpng
* libjpeg

Did I miss something? Are you making a Dink Smallwood Web Browser or something?

It's the new engine, gustav.

Closed source? heh.. yay. Let's become Microsoft everyone.

No, seriously, why closed source? And what's so bad with GPL? Isn't it so that it's popular just because it gives rights for everyone?

And I thought Dink was something of Seth's, that he was the one who had to choose licenses and stuff.

Or do I totally miss the point maybe?

*fully agreed*

Lost and Confused...

>^@@^<

Okay, it seems I have misstated my point. Due to licensing issues with the MPL, the code is closed to the public only until the first release is made. Please see section 2.1c: "The licenses granted in this Section 2.1(a) and (b) are effective on the date INITIAL DEVELOPER [The Dink Project] first distributes ORIGINAL CODE [our source code] under the terms of this license." After it's released, however, you can do whatever you'd like with it.

Why not the GPL? The GPL sucks for a first party distributor. Period. Intellectual property of that distributor may be taken, used, modified, displayed, performed, sublicensed, and/or distributed with no notices whatsoever except for those on the source code files. Thus, any copyright notices will not make it into a third party binary distribution and any altered versions are not marked with any notice messages, prominent or not, stating the third party distribution is an altered version of the original. Also, it is made possible, in addition to the above, that a third party distributing a modified version of the original source, may be falsely represented as the original first party without penalty except that covered under any applicable laws of your particular state or government.

The GPL may be great for you as an active persuer of software (GNU or not), however imagine what it would do for a larger corperation. Ouch.

lol. you're not serious are you? This is the DINK network. We're making funny little dmods here. you are talking about this like you are working on a time machine. Dude, licensing? copyright? "imagine what it would do for a larger corperation" larger corperation? WE?

Uhm, yes. Get real.

Yes, I am very serious.

And the Seth part of this? The fact that he "owns" Dink and such?

Silly Birdy. Seth has nothing to do with this. We're not using his code. Here is his license:

---
*** Dink Smallwood Source License Information ***

This software is provided "as is" without express or implied
warranties. You may freely use, modify and distribute this
source provided that the copyright text below is included in
the resulting source code, for example:
"Portions Copyright (C) Seth A. Robinson, 1997-2003

You may use this source in personal and commercial products, you
are not required to release the source code.

Please note that sharing this source does not in any way relinquish interest or forfeit any rights enjoyed by
Robinson Technologies and Seth A. Robinson concerning the name Dink Smallwood and related media includeding graphics,
sounds, music, scripts and map data. (hereafter referred to as "Dink Smallwood Media").

Repackaging or distributing the Dink Smallwood Media in a modified format requires permission from
Seth A. Robinson. Please consult the license included with the Dink Smallwood full version distribution for
more information.

Fastfile.*, ffcreate.*, dsutil.* and ddutil.* are copyrighted by the Microsoft Corporation and excluded
from the above license.

-Seth A. Robinson (seth@rtsoft.com)
www.rtsoft.com

This software is provided "as is" without express or implied
warranties. You may freely use, modify and distribute this
source provided that the copyright text below is included in
the resulting source code, for example:
"Portions Copyright (C) Seth A. Robinson, 1997-2003

That's great, but in no way have we used his source.

You may use this source in personal and commercial products, you
are not required to release the source code.

Good for us.

Please note that sharing this source does not in any way relinquish interest or forfeit any rights enjoyed by
Robinson Technologies and Seth A. Robinson concerning the name Dink Smallwood and related media includeding graphics,
sounds, music, scripts and map data. (hereafter referred to as "Dink Smallwood Media").

Big deal. We're only rewriting the engine.

Repackaging or distributing the Dink Smallwood Media in a modified format requires permission from Seth A. Robinson. Please consult the license included with the Dink Smallwood full version distribution for more information.

Good for us, however we're not repackaging the game media.

Fastfile.*, ffcreate.*, dsutil.* and ddutil.* are copyrighted by the Microsoft Corporation and excluded from the above license.

Microsoft can go screw themselves. We're not using their code.

---

So as you can see, your questions are irrelevant to the matter at hand. We're writing a new engine; it will not include any of the original game media.

and you are planning to make money out of this engine rewrite? And what more are you planning to do with this new engine? Is it really such a big deal?

Christ, will you stop making such a fudgeing big deal out of this? We plan on releasing this to the public unless you keep being such donkeys about it.

Okay... legal stuff aside or read or farted on...

Bottom line is you're making a new engine, which can use (but doesn't have to) the original Dink graphics/sounds/music to play Dink Smallwood, plus it can use new graphics/sounds/music - right?

It's backwards compatible with current DMODs and stuff - or maybe it isn't, but I didn't read everything... so sue me

Hope the new engine works out well, and thanks for the effort.

Thank you, SimonK. Everything you said is correct.

New little tidbits:

Sound is functional. We're using fmod: let's hope it stays that way.

Supported audio formats:

midi, mod, mp3, ogg vorbis, wma, aiff, analog or digital cd playing.

Supported audio capabilities:

3d audio, mmx, dsp effects, spectrum analysis, user-created samples and streams, synchronization, EAX 2&3, and "more" - whatever that means.

Supported image formats:

BMP, PNM, XPM, LBM, PCX, GIF, JPEG, PNG, and TGA. I recommend you all stick to .png for it's good quality:compression ratio.

Oh.. I think I missed something here. You're making a new engine, which is backwards compatible with dink dmods, but not necasserily a new *dink* engine?

I still wanna know if you're thinking of making money out of the engine though. I'm not making a big deal about it. But clearly, you are.

Now why doesn't it support wav?

I'm not thick, but I don't know much GeekSpeak. (no offence). I might be able to write games entirely from scripts, but I'm not quite getting what you are trying to say. Please answer these questsion:

1. Are you making a new dink engine?
2. If not, what are you making?
3. If so, how on earth are you going to do it?
4. Are you insane?
5. Can I please have $2,000,000 (australian)?

No offence Gustav, but those are silly Ask Tal questions

And wav isn't necessary as you can easily convert it to mp3 which will save space.
BTW, the entire media community is trying to promote MP4, why not support that too
Oh and, what happened to SPC support? I guess it's not a priority, but most of those songs can loop indefinitely and only take up 20-70 KB.

Questions answered:

You're making a new engine, which is backwards compatible with dink dmods, but not necasserily a new *dink* engine?

I guess you could say that, yeah. It's a replacement for Seth's dink engine (which has 39 instances of the word "shoot" (that'll probably be blocked out by the swear filter).

I still wanna know if you're thinking of making money out of the engine though. I'm not making a big deal about it. But clearly, you are.

No and no.

Now why doesn't it support wav?

It supports anything that fmod supports.

And Gustav, your questions are so ridiculous I'm not going to answer them.

Kyle, SPC support is....being put on hold.

Nobody wants to answer them... let me give it a try:

1. Yes, well no, well, kinda.
2. A new engine which can be used as a Dink engine.
3. Using a computer.
4. The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.
5. Not from me, ask someone else, I guess Michael J. and Bill G. have some spare money. George W. B. might also have some. You'll have to change it yourself to australian-$, though.

I hate mp4! Why you may ask? None of the media players I have support it. Sure you can play them one by one, but I can't put into an album fudgeing form! I can't burn them onto cd's or onto a data cd since my player doesn't recognize mp4! AAAAAHHH!

Download Foobar, it's an excellent media player. And it supports mp4 playlists

I have the feeling you did not read the GNU GPL, right?
Among others I read:
"You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files and the date of any change."

This sort of thing is why we let Merlin be our legal eagle. I'm just the guy who helps code it

We're planning on making the engine *completely* backwards-compatible with the current Dink engine. This will largely be achieved through use of converters, but there are some cases where we've tried to match the Dink engine's systems; DinkC++ is one.

I'm just the guy who helps code it.

*Cough Cough*

I'm impressed. Developers can and should make sure thier name stays on it even if its freeware. And that was a lot of work too! kudos for the programer boys!!
BTW, I have tried high color graphics with the old engine(s), but it slowed down majorly when drawing new screens that were all high color. Will that work better?

OpenGL is naturally faster compared to DirectX 5. Also, if you look at the original source, it was redrawing the entire screen several times every second. This is the easy way out, and is not necessary. Only what has changed needs to be redrawn.