The Dink Network

When creating a d-mod (as I myself have discovered on a few occasions) one of the most difficult areas is balancing the difficulty.

Now, in a rather "controlled" d-mod such as Eternal Suicide, where there is no levelling up, balancing the game is quite easy. It just takes a little time playing through the game, modifying enemy stats up/down. Easy.

However, in a more open game, difficulty levels can prove a huge problem. Specifically, this problem can come about due to having multiple secrets.

A staple part of any decent quest/epic is having at least a few good secrets. Yet how can you balance a game well if you are not sure how strong Dink will be?

Let's take a look at a hypothetical example...

In the d-mod Dink Kicks Evil's Ass Once More, there are many secrets. One player (let's call him Player 1... I know that's a bit out there, but bear with me) collects all the secrets, yet another (Player 2) misses most/all of them.

How can a d-mod author balance a game where two players stats might vary as much as this...

Player 1: Strength 17, Defense 12, Magic 10

Player 2: Strength 10, Defense 9, Magic 6

An extreme example, perhaps, but this is a very real possibility.

So, my esteemed colleagues... how can a d-mod author best avoid issues such as these? After all, nobody like a d-mod where you waltz through the game, hardly paying attention; neither does anyone enjoy a game where you die time after time after time.

One route would be to modify a boss's stats depending on Dink's own (as in SOB), but what other views do people have on the matter?

I feel sorry for Player 2

Another way could be to control the number of opponents the player faces. For example, for every 5 Strength, Dink would face a Slayer. So Player 1 would face 3 and Player 2 would face 2. Player 1 would have to kill more opponents but he can deal more damage at once and Player 2 can deal less damage but also faces fewer opponents. Just something that I think of right now, I never used this technique

Though, in my D-Mods, I just add some strength, touch damage and hitpoints as the game progresses. But then, my D-Mods have no greatly varying player stats and not that many hard to find secrets (if any) so it's pretty much under control. My D-Mods are easy too

A player who doesn't find any secrets should have a hard time, as long as some of the secrets aren't too hard to figure out. I'd balance it somewhere in the middle. A player who finds them all should have an easier time, while the dumbass who doesn't find any should get what he deserves

Another thing would be add optional areas/battles that would be balanced for players that have accumulated high stats. That way, not finding stuff isn't really penalized and those who found the secrets are rewarded with being able to handle the optional areas.

I always make my games easy enough that I can win them.Unfortunately that also makes them 'waltzable' for many better players.

I suppose you have to look at the games that got good reviews in that department and follow their example.Opinions of Beta-testers probably helps a lot too.

A player who doesn't find any secrets should have a hard time, as long as some of the secrets aren't too hard to figure out. I'd balance it somewhere in the middle. A player who finds them all should have an easier time, while the dumbass who doesn't find any should get what he deserves.
I agree with Striker on that.

Stat based creatures. When your stats goes up, more/harder creatures will appear. That's the best solution I can think of. That way the player would ALLWAYS have enemies that are at least a _bit_ challanging.

The player who is unable to find any secrets could be limited in how far they can progress in the game or restricted from accessing additional, non-essential elements of the game. Maybe some of the secrets should be treated as undefined mini-quests.

At the same time, the popularity of RPG's comes from the fact that there is not only 1 way to play the game. The player should decide whether they wish to quest their way through a scenario, battle it out against unbeatable odds, or some balance between the two.

I think we should schedule the particulars of individual quests, but quest completion should not be a requirement of the game. Leave it open for the player to decide their own level and flavor of entertainment. This is an interactive game and not a movie.

mm

Another thing would be add optional areas/battles that would be balanced for players that have accumulated high stats. That way, not finding stuff isn't really penalized and those who found the secrets are rewarded with being able to handle the optional areas.

This is an excellent solution, and upon further thought, it seems pretty similar to what Arik and I did with the Temple of the Ancients in Cloud Castle 2.

Any other suggestions, guys?

In "The Scourger", you had a quest to find some crystals. 10 to proceed forward, 12 to gain something special(a fireball). Forward in the game, the fireball can be found in a storyline quest(when the player really needs it).
You may put in the secret areas some weapons/spells that the player will find further in the game. This way, for the Player1 the battles will be a piece of cake, and Player2 will be able to kill his monsters too.

You really needed the fireball in The Scourger? I only thought it was for that secret tree really near the end. But then, I immediately got all 12 crystals

Hmm, in Outlander, some of the secrets and items (eg the flame wall spell, a scythe that doubles your magic, one that shoots fireballs, and the molotov cocktail) are very powerful, despite their appearance at the beginning of the game. Monsters are stronger depending on what magic/items you have. Some of the enemies gain abilities (not in the demo, but in the latest version) such as spellcasting and decapitating the player (the decapitation sequence was fun to make) if you've found many secrets.

No, it isn't neccessary. And the only time you 'need' it is for that tree. The rest of the time its just another fighting tactic.

OK, I just want to ask...someone made some evil Dink graphics, where do I find them?

Cifra, you can find them from
http://www.dinknetwork.com/display.cgi?action=File&ID=479
And now I guess that we should go back to the topic

Obviously limiting the amount of experience the player can receive will result in a very fair level plateau, but on the other hand making experience higher will reward players who try levelling up. This means that weaker players who get lost a lot and spend a lot of time killing things will have higher stats and therefore have an easier ride, in theory. Of course, in practice, weaker players who run away from things are pretty screwed. Leaving out monsters who give uber-experience at the end is probably the fairest compromise.

Secrets are trickier, because they reward the particularly diligent/anal player over the one who just wants to play the game at his or her own pace, although if you don't go overboard on megapotions and amazing items then it shouldn't matter too much. My favourite secrets aren't the ones that simply chuck potions at you anyway though, they're the ones in Eternal Suicide which gave you a novelty subquest or they're the Dildonator or they're the puzzle cave in LOT that gave you a cool but rubbish magic.

I'm not a fan of self-adjusting difficulty systems in a level based game - what's the point in levelling up if everything levels with you? - but I can see the appeal. Basically the most important thing is that secrets don't get closed off from the player - if you get stuck and you can't go back to try and find some of the potions you missed, you're pretty screwed.

Personally, I'm interested in the Metroid approach, which rewards both the diligent secret-finder and the crazy player who eschews powerups along the way through extras on completion, depending on how many items you find. Of course, this assumes that you have extras to give the player on completion.

I hope I am not bringing up a too old of a topic, but I am having trouble finding some awnsers to Dink's Level cap of 32, I can not get higher than level 32. Does anyone know how to make Dink Smallwood in a DMOD make Dink's Highest Level 99 or something like this?

32 os the max.

So is it hard coded into the Dink exe file? Or has anyone figured out how to script changes to the level max? Thats what I was asking, not asking if 32 was the max or not...

It's not hardcoded. Check out "lraise.c", and change the
"if &level < 32" part into if &level < 99" or something.

Well, in a way it is hardcoded; the statusbar can only handle a certain number of digits, then it starts to look odd and ugly

Mabye make a major secret near the last half of the game and make it so if a player needs the extra stats they can spend the time trying to figure out the riddles to open it or something.

If you were a higher level player they wouldn't need to spend the time going through all the work to get the secret.

Took me awhile to find a source C file, but I managed to make it work. Thanks for your help guys... Now the exp is another issue, which I read in another post on here that is hardcoded.

And there's the problem s.t. if you get enough Exp to level up past two levels, you level up one, and I think then the game freezes. IIRC.

It worked, all the way to Level 99! However, the exp is 99999 max and so it does not make it challenging if you make Level 32+! Monsters that give lots of exp at higher levels, or higher def, attack, hp, and exp would make you level faster and faster, instead of slower and slower like traditional RPG's.

Also, my game never crashed leveling up, so not sure what your talking about exactly, Chrispy.

Chrispy is referring to the bug that causes the game to crash if you get enough enough experience to go up 2 levels at once.

For example, if you were level 1 and received 10,000 experience points, the game would freeze.

That bug has been fixed in 1.08. I would know, having gained something like 5 levels at once in a D-Mod just yesterday.

Well, I do know that exp does not carry over once your required exp to level up is 99999... I have to constantly use fire spells to update the exp before fighting another monster...

One method of balancing things out would be having exp gained be based on Dink's level like Suikoden. Killing pillbugs at higher levels would give no exp. Somehow beating a dragon at level 2 gives tons of exp. This would also by default solve the problem of faster leveling beyond level 32.

You would still have some issue with stat increases due to hidden potions, but it would be easier for player 2 to make up the difference.

Still, I think it's better left a bit unbalanced. If I search well, while you run ahead, I deserve an advantage.