The Dink Network

So, we're having a discussion on the group fb page about a secret area, sorta northeast of duck island. I think it was a glitch that he was able to access the area the way he did but regardless, there must be a way to get the potion and treasure beyond the 2 volcanoes. I don't remember how though. I don't even remember the area. So, anyone?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2503972241/

Video of area

I think that's just a relic of what was to be.

I guess maybe the idea was you'd access it through a tunnel, but Seth never put the built other end. Anyway it's not possible to get there without cheating. You might also have noticed that the potion isn't scripted (it doesn't bounce), the chest and stairs don't do anything either.

Seth should complete the game.

Seth should complete the game.

Seth should finally make Online Dink. There's been talk about how cool that'd be, all the way from early 2000s. He's made far more complicated online games by now and has access to all the original code and graphics. How hard can it be.

Or re-make Dink with the original models and shit.

Dink is not popular enough to warrant the amount of time necessary to update or improve it.

He's sold, at most, 5000 copies on Google Play. After Google's 30% cut, he's made somewhere between $2,093 and $10,465. He seems to have sold fewer copies on the Apple App Store (they don't give download estimate, but he has 111 ratings on the App Store vs 274 on Google Play), so let's say he made half as much on the App Store. That brings his total revenue for Dink Smallwood HD in the range of $3,000 - $15,000.

RTSoft and Hamumu are making about $12,000 per day with their Growtopia game.

So basically -

Seth: "Screw my fanbase who have kept Dink around for over 15 years and have made lots of extra content for it and have also reported countless bugs my "HD" version has presented, I have money".

...that's real nice. And all about an unfinished game that was rushed out the door at the final stretch of the game.

He can choose between supporting a game that has a few thousand players (generously) that makes him little money, or he can support a game that has millions of players that makes him a lot of money.

Even taking money out of the equation, it makes more sense to support a game with millions of players vs a game with thousands of players.

The game's never been 'unfinished', they just didn't add as much content as they originally planned. That happens with just about any game or any project of any significance.

It might've made sense to update it instead of creating Mystery Island, but the time for significant gameplay or story changes has long since passed.

And yet, with 12000 dollars a day, whatever portion he gets is clearly enough to last. He could whip up a small team of like 2 or three people to get the rest done as it was originally intended.

But I guess the money he has now is enough to call it quits on the people and the game that got him where he is now.

-_-

There's a series of interviews with Seth (look up Matt Chat Seth Robinson) in which he states he had made around $50,000 from sales of Dink Horrible and Disgusting at that point so far since 2010 when it was released.

It's a shame he never made DinkEditHD for us to make maps with. He may still release the source like he initially claimed, but I am not holding my breath.

It's a shame, sure, but it's not like Seth owes us anything.

To be fair, even if he has more prolific projects going on (and let's face it, Dink was never at the top of that list. Even when making it he knew it wasn't gonna be too big a deal), it wouldn't take too much of his time to finish Dink into the form he initially planned it. Some of the original ideas were great and would probably make the original game's story seem far more sensible and complete. I know it's not gonna happen, but it really wouldn't take him more than a few months to add that stuff. Hell, if he had time to make Dink HD, which wasn't that big a success, he could finish the game. It'd be a nice tribute to the community. Heck, it'd have made sense for him to add the missing stuff when he made Dink HD.

Or maybe we as a community could try to get Seth's original ideas and try to complete it for him? It'd have been a long time coming, certainly. Dink v1.10, anyone?

"X doesn't owe us anything"

The classic rebuttal. Dink would've gone nowhere if a seemingly immortal community didn't make games with it. It's not like the guy who knows exactly how the language works can't take like a day to stop bathing in cash to finish what was originally intended.

Or maybe we as a community could try to get Seth's original ideas and try to complete it for him?

A damn good idea. Also see if we can get the original models as well. It's not like Seth really gives a shit about Dink anymore, so if he hasn't already trashed them, we might find a use for them.

Yeah, it looked like it was a glitch that allowed him to walk off the sand and into the water over to that area. I thought perhaps I had just forgotten it but I think I probably never saw it. So, just a mean, mean tease. A treasure chest that will never be opened. *sob* Anyways, thanks for the info. A couple people posted on the fb page about it and it was muchly appreciated. I actually started playing the game again today, from the beginning. Played up until a goblin guard obliterated me. Good times.

SimonK apparently asked RTSoft to see if he could get any of the 3D models many years ago for his own purposes and he couldn't. I doubt much has changed since then. In Bmp_dinkpack.zip it says that RTSoft would consider licensing them so if you ever have a bag of cash lying around, throw it at them and see what it brings.

I would have liked a proper high definition version with voice acting and FMV sequences rather than crappy stretching and filtering, but what you have to realise is that Dink stinks. It will always stink and that's why people have appreciated it. You can get as mad as you like, but it won't make Seth do anything.

>Dink would've gone nowhere if a seemingly immortal community didn't make games with it
I would actually wager that the vast majority of people who have ever played Dink have never bothered with DMods apart from what is bundled.

I would actually wager that the vast majority of people who have ever played Dink have never bothered with DMods apart from what is bundled.

Doesn't change that Dink persists to this day because this site still produces content.

SimonK apparently asked RTSoft to see if he could get any of the 3D models many years ago for his own purposes and he couldn't. I doubt much has changed since then. In Bmp_dinkpack.zip it says that RTSoft would consider licensing them so if you ever have a bag of cash lying around, throw it at them and see what it brings.

I guess that solves the mystery of why SimonK vanished. He must work himself into the ground on whatever cartoons he works on to spend it all on the models. Although, that was years ago. Growtopia seems to be all Seth gives a shit about now, so maybe our collective insanity can convince Seth to release the models. Literally no loss anyways and we'll get to see Dink's gigantic bulge more clearly.

What you seem to be forgetting is that Seth is first and foremost a businessman, and that his primary goal is to earn a profit. He isn't a hobbyist or "gamer" like we are. If Seth got really broke or had another child and needed the funding or whatever we may be able to pool our life savings together and buy the models to the game along with the rights, but until then nothing will really change in that regard as there's no incentive for him to do anything.

What you seem to be forgetting is that Seth is first and foremost a businessman, and that this primary goal is to earn a profit.

It's gotta suck when you just become a "businessman". Just a machine to make profit and do nothing more.

So I guess "I like makin' games. How couldn't you?" should be "I like money. How couldn't you?"

Also, only being in something for profit is a godawful way to do anything. Look at Capcom - spamming Street Fighter and DLC. Fans ask for Megaman and they abuse their fans by cancelling Legends 3, blaming it on the fans, and then proceeding to make a bunch of shitty mobile Megaman "games" to piss on everything he once stood for. Now they're in the ditch and up for sale. Oops.

Getting pissed off and badmouthing Seth Robinson definitely isn't going to make him any more likely to do what you want.

Speaking against a profit-only mindset isn't badmouthing anyone.

I wasn't talking about that post in particular.

There's just a sense of hostility to this discussion that rubs me the wrong way. Every time I've dealt with Seth he seemed fair and actually quite a nice guy. And he's already done stuff for us. He didn't have to release Dink as freeware when he did. Sure, he could do more if he wanted to, and it doesn't hurt to ask, but it's the tone that bothers me.

What bothers me is raking in piles and piles of cash and just continuing to do that like a machine without acknowledging how we've discovered about a million things wrong with Dink HD and how we've tried pushing a Steam Greenlight.

Especially the second part. That would bring in even more money for Seth, which seems to be the thing he cares about the most. It also bothers me that he sells the most broken version of the game currently available and the customers probably don't really know that 1.08 is nowhere near as buggy, if not completely without bugs.

I do think it's fair to say that he really ought to update Dink HD. It needs work.

He even came here and asked for us to test it. Then he vanished. Have we a single word on any updates at all?

All things considered, RTSoft has been reasonably pleasant in their dealings with the modding community by releasing the source to the engine/scripts, as well as the freeware release, co-operation on 1.08 and helping with WinDinkEdit. Certain people have been excessively mean to Seth such as in this thread which hasn't helped anything.

However, I think getting us to test DinkHD without including any sort of development features (debugger, editor, or command line switches) was a bad idea, as most of us here tend not to bother using it.

And yet that's the version to be sold without ironing out the bugs we've reported since its release. I've got nothing else really to say about it except that's it's never a good sign to see profit come before fixing up your product. I don't know what deadline was set for them when Dink first came out, but wasn't it something to do with a magazine release?

Check out Seth's blog, especially this and this (the part about freemiums). He really doesn't strike me as a money-grubbing scum at all, and he's been really nice every time I've emailed or chatted with him. With that said, it couldn't hurt to yell at him and accuse him of selling out. I'm all for guilting Seth into doing more stuff with Dink.

That game would probably be a whole lot better on proper platforms. Onscreen buttons are terrible. No tactile feedback which I hadn't really thought of until someone threw that term out there, awkward hand placement, blocking your view...

As far as selling out goes, no. He has not done that. He appears really caught up in sales and profit, but I haven't seen anything on just flatout selling out to some shitty company. More like, selling out to money if that's even a thing.

When's the last time we had a word from Seth about Dink HD anyways?

Seth sold out in the 90s when he got rid of the rights to LORD, and Planets: TEOS so he could finance the release of Dink.

I don't think blaming Seth is anyhow necessary. Yeah, we've kept Dink alive but how has that benefitted Seth whatsoever? We've kept Dink alive and updated it for ourselves, not for Seth. What good has it done to him? Nothing. We've just been a small community he put a start to, that's been riding on the sidelines and gone along for the journey. Just because we've existed and kept Dink alive, doesn't mean we've advanced his career as a game-developer anyhow. He hasn't made a penny because of us, but because of the games he has been making after Dink. Yes, you could argue that if we never kept Dink alive to begin with, he wouldn't have been able to release Dink HD and wouldn't get money off it now. But seriously, he could've released Dink HD even if this community never existed. I don't know very many people who've been long-time members of this community and bought Dink HD. Most who bought it are people who played it once or twice back when it was released, and then forgot about it, without even having a clue about us. By giving us Dink, its source and its easy-to-use editor, for free no less, Seth has done far more than most (if any) developers would. He doesn't owe us anything. I just think it would be nice if he did finish the game into its full, originally-planned form. It'd be a cool nod from him to us that he still remembers, and is grateful for us keeping a game he created alive for such an unbelievably long time. I think it would be cool even for him, to get Dink into the form he once wanted it to be in. Or he could just give us the original models, ideas and stuff, and allow us to finish it. A way in which we could, in reverse, show our gratitude to him.

I do still somewhat agree with what I said in that old thread. It's not a scam or a fraud, but I do think it was kind of a weird, unnecessary and sudden thing to release Dink HD. Firstly, I don't think it was needed on multiple devices (I don't think ANY game needs to be). It also does make me wonder if Seth was in some money-problems back then, because he seemed to really quickly put it together, in kind of a half-assed way, barely making sure you could play through the original game without problems, and then put it up for $3, and then completely forgot all about it as soon as it had sold a decent amount. It really just makes no sense to me that a game that had been freeware for over ten years, now suddenly had a WORSE version that cost $3. It's not a lot of money, but it's the principle of the whole thing. You still can't even play 3/4th of the D-Mods on Dink HD without encountering major problems. Dink is an old, already somewhat broken game that you can get for free, and I really don't think a buggy version of it, like Dink HD should cost anything. Maybe it would have been fair to charge $3 for it, had he added the unfinished stuff. Even then it'd have been questionable, imo.

It's apparent that the people here are definitely not the target audience for DinkHD. In fact it's difficult to determine who is, as this new generation of "casuals" aren't going to enjoy it much, and the people who originally bought it in '98 or got it freeware don't like it much either.

>Or he could just give us the original models, ideas and stuff, and allow us to finish it

First off, Seth didn't make any of the graphics. That was left up to the artist, Justin Martin who was initially a 50% stakeholder in Dink who has chosen not to release the 3DS Max models or Photoshop files, and doesn't care at all about DModders. See this thread for details.

I very much doubt he would willingly release any of the 3D models without a rather hefty payment (if at all) meaning that unless we all coughed up some dough, our only alternative would be to recreate all of the models and render them ourselves which was sort of what Windemere was about.

I will also state that although Seth is primarily a businessman, he has been very active under the name "MrFun" on many Ludum Dare competitions and does enjoy making free games as part of a competition meaning he's not a money-grabbing wanker like Skorny seems to have concluded from my other post.

To be fair, it's not that he doesn't care, it's that he'd rather not share these files that he worked hard on.

As for Seth and Growtopia, I moved here from Hamumu software (Which I moved to from here, originally) when Jamul stopped being involved with the community and just started working on the game all the time. Those of us left there dream that one day he'll return, but we also don't actually want the game to fail. I hold a similar opinion of Seth. He is talented, and I wish he could put his talent to work on something I'm interested in, but I prefer that he has the money to be alive long term and stuff than for him to be grasping at straws trying to earn a living.

I think some people here just don't appreciate that this is their only source of income, and that they need to choose money when they are presented with the choice.

And by choosing only money, they will inevitably fail.

There's obviously no hope of Seth giving a crap about Dink ever again unless it begins making a crapload of money, but if Growtopia is really the only thing going for him, and it's a mobile app with bad controls, then something else is going to have to be there. Honestly, Dink probably has the greater potential. A good remake with all the original ideas would be something I'd buy for sure.

What about Dink 2. Seth once said that the game is nearly finished. Well, nearly... all graphics are ready, the story is written, and game engine ( I think its new ) also completed. He just needs to sit down and put it together, but apparently never will. Can that be uploaded here somehow? We had that discussion already, but hey, it's 2015 already...

And Skurn, if you wanna kill Seth, just play the game

Wasn't that Dink 2 thing something Msdink said on april 1st?

First off, Seth didn't make any of the graphics. That was left up to the artist, Justin Martin who was initially a 50% stakeholder in Dink who has chosen not to release the 3DS Max models or Photoshop files, and doesn't care at all about DModders. See this thread for details.

I very much doubt he would willingly release any of the 3D models without a rather hefty payment (if at all) meaning that unless we all coughed up some dough, our only alternative would be to recreate all of the models and render them ourselves which was sort of what Windemere was about.

I see. I thought by now Seth might own them completely. Also thought by now neither of them would really care at all for 20-year-old graphics. One would think they'd be happy to give it to this community and see them finally get used.

I don't see the graphics as a big problem though. Seth could still give us his original ideas for the game. There are good artists in this community that could make their own graphics based on Seth's ideas. I don't see any reason he'd want to keep his ideas from us, except if he one day decides he is going to finish Dink into its original form, and then ask money for that too, which would be lunacy.

I don't think we'll need any new graphics to finish Dink. The spikers were never used, for example. For all we know, those things could be more powerful than the golems and maybe the dragons.

There's nothing to stop somebody from "finishing" Dink in an unofficial way.

I say we all finish it together. Like a really messed up love child.

Would it even be unofficial if we got the original ideas and finished it in that way?

No it wasnt an April fools joke - he promised me in chat once Dink2 would be completed - but things change and people move on - hes a business man and making dink wont feed his kids. Im sure this site has endeared dink deeper than he would normally feel about a game hes produced - and its not like we get nothing out of it - headaches (dinkc) friends (u grubby lot) and experience if u wanna accept it (ask iplaydink). Not a bad deal huh

It definitely was. Why are you even bothering to try and say it wasn't?

but things change and people move on - hes a business man and making dink wont feed his kids

Dude makes more money than most people do in 2 billion years by the looks of it, why would it even matter?

> I thought by now Seth might own them completely.

Seth might have copies of them but he doesn't necessarily own them. When developing DinkHD he got him to come back and do the interface graphics which included re-rendering the original title logo. It is quite possible that Seth has copies of all the 3DS Max files, but that he has to get permission before using them or something like that.

I found a ten year old thread on the RTSoft forums where Seth gives his reason for not wanting to release the 3DS Max models. His response made sense at the time, but it's pretty obvious by now that he's never going to use them again.

So our goals are clear - we get Justin's attention for the models, and we get Seth's for the ideas.

If we can get both, perhaps we can just remake Dink ourselves with the models and the ideas as one.

I think seth can make some more decent money than the android and ios releases of dink HD , if he decides to fix up the game good and release it on steam for the same price.

I mean look at aoe 2 , it was dead in the water for ages upto the point that the fans themselves made a expansion for it. What does ms do? Release aoe 2 hd + release the fan exapansion as dlc , The game still sells like hot cakes during any sale.

I am sure after playing dink smallwood for so long, free many fans would be happy to buy a proper DinkHD version pc at ios/android price with proper modding tools and steamworks.
Someone from the community should let seth know about steam.

We've tried that. It baffles me that Seth isn't jumping at the opportunity.

I did some more digging and found another thread from 2007 where Seth announces that a Dink sequel has already been designed but hasn't been developed yet. Someone ought to get him to put it on Kickstarter.

Not if the language for Dmods would be lua or C++. Hardly any dmods would be made for it if that's the case.

The only relevant line in that thread was:
> I may do an official Dink sequel someday (already been designed actually!), so I'd prefer nobody else confused things by releasing an unofficial version.

Hardly any are being made anyway so nothing much would change even if it were to happen (which it probably won't).

Escept that's there's been like 800 dmod releases this year so far.

Why does it have to be on steam? Why not just release it on Steam AND GOG.com for free. That way if the Steam servers gets shutted down (Which IS a possibility) or gets DDOS'ed, it's a bye-bye to your library, i am aware of Offline mode but the thing is, you need to verify the files in online mode to play! Besides, such an old game really deserves to be at GOG.com as Valve does not give a single duck about a modern PC compatibility for older games (See Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2).

There's very little chance of Steam getting ddosed. The security is actually pretty tight.

As for putting it on multiple platforms, why not? Let's get it on Desura while we're at it.

DDOS is not even hacking. If ya thought it is then it's not, it's just sending a bunch of useless data to clog up the bandwith.

Valve already does that themselves by starting sales or just existing. Not that it's useless data, but Valve needs more ducking servers.

Gog is not interested in releasing a free game like dink either , i have seen threads on dink smallwood there, no response from them

"Gog is not interested in releasing a free game"
That's funny. Because 2 months ago Akalabeth: World of Doom was released for free. Besides, there is a option to Submit Your Game if you scroll down the page.

Come to think of it, there are several free games. Mostly Ultima.