The Dink Network

As many of you know, I run The Doctor Who MIDI Club. I have recently released and awesome MIDI, called Crisis.

I also added a links page. I would like feedback on this all please. It would be greatly appreciated.

I myself like Dr. Who, and I have been to your site several times. I like it, all the MIDIs are good quality.

Thanks. So, what, you're one of my regular visitors who votes on the poll? Nice!

Yes, I do vote and visit often. I like Dr. Who and I think the music is a strong point in it.

Decent combination of instruments, the underlying melodies fit the main melody too. However, the biggest problem with this song is the awful repetetiveness - I became bored of the song even before it was half done because the same thing just keeps on repeating and repeating...

Try having a bit more of a structure, like popular songs like to do (verse, verse, refrain, verse, refrain, bridge, (refrain), outro).

Pardon me, DaVince, but what do you mean by 'refrain'? I'm not a real musician.

What? Everyone should know what a refrain is, even if you're not a musician. I won't explain it to you, use Wikipedia.

There's no need to be a dick dude, he's only 12 or 13 and probably not in a choir or band.
DinkDude, the refrain is the part of the song that gets repeated, often with the name of the song in it. Or, you can check Wikipedia, but I didn't and won't because the previous comment was cruel.

Edit:I would delete this post also, but since there are replies to it, I'll leave it for continuity.

Oh shush. The whole RTFM phrase was invented because of guys like you. Today it's really easy to figure out stuff from dictionaries and encyclopedias online, so there's really no excuse anymore to say "I don't know what X is".

...

Anyway, I made a new MIDI. He's a Pirate - Orchestra. Feedback?

Although it's not completely my work, what do you think about the choice of instruments, the drums?

Lol, for a second there I only looked at Dinkround's and Phoenix's icons, so I thought Dinkround was telling himself to shush.

EDIT: I really like the Pirate MIDI. The new instruments give it a good touch, but, I like the original better because.... well, it's the original.

I do agree that one should take the time to "RTFM" or research something before asking about it, but c'mon, boys. Let's all play nice. I brought dirty magazines for all of you.

"There's no need to be a dick dude, he's only 12 or 13 and probably not in a choir or band."

Dude, I learnt what a refrain is in elementary school. It is a word that anyone should know the meaning of... or at least I can't imagine it someone NOT knowing it (within the boundaries of Europe/the US, since refrains pop up in these countries' songs most).

Ah well, whatever. I won't complain too much about someone not knowing a word that seemed common knowledge to me...

Now, about the POTC MIDI... It's pretty accurate (except for the timing in the notes here and there), the instrumentation is good. I'm missing bass tones a bit though, but then again I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers.

Heh, a 5:1 surround sound system, is likely to sound better than a laptop. But, I think some of it does need a little work. But hey, I'm too lazy.

Bear in mind that the education you'll receive from country to country, or sometimes even from one school to the next, will vary in content and/or quality...

(Notices Tal did NOT buy any "dirty magazines" for us loyal female dinkers)

Post retracted, would delete if I had the option. Suffice it to say that the caliber of some people posting leaves me wanting for proper social intercourse. From this point forward my posts will have to do with D-mods only. I shall not reply again to this thread, regardless of what anyone else posts.

Edit:(Read: Not new post) Basically, I refrained from saying STFU and a few other choice phrases (even though I originally typed them), because at the time of the original post I was inebriated, and upon re-reading the post I realized my error and erased it. And though I wish I could delete this post, it seems it is stuck here, unless a moderator decides to delete it. But it contains nothing offensive, so I think it will not be deleted. Much to my dismay.

o.0 I must of missed something here that might be vital to the conversation. However, it seems that if dinkdude had taken offense to the comment made by davince then it would of been his responsibility to state that himself. either way I could care less.

And in connection to Tal's comment, I think Finland is number one in education...so if you want the 'best'...there ya go.

You COULDN'T care less, you (probably) mean.

Intercourse?

Don't correct me, Tal. I am infallible, much like the pope. I meant what I said...kinda...sorta. Ok I messed up; shoot me now.

I might have seemed a BIT offensive, but blame it on the fact that by far most people in my country have learnt what a refrain is... Don't worry about it so much, ok?

Unless your country is more musically inclined than most, I sincerely doubt "most" have "learnt" what a refrain is.

I do hope they learned that the past tense of "learn" is "learned", though. You know, in those mandatory English classes in the Netherlands.

Wow Tal, you're on an english kick. Taking a grammar class or something?

Dunno how it's now, but in my time, music education was as mandatory as English. "learnt" VS "learned" is yet another British VS American English thing.

And as British English is taught at schools in the Netherlands it makes sense...

Indeed.

Interesting. Of all the American English/British English comparisons I've seen, I've never spotted that. "Learnt" seems... so very bad. Thank you for that correction, though!

I am amused, Tal. A year or two back, when I was being the grammarpolizei, you were all over me complaining about it, and now you're just like I was. Yes, amused I am.

I can't think how I normally spell it. Learnt or learned... Probably learnt, unless it's like 'a learned person' which isn't the same.

Ask Oxford is great for things like this.

Btw DD95 I like your MIDIs, though I agree with whoever it was that said the first one is a bit repetitive.

Yes, it was repetitive, but at the moment, I'm trying to get all my orchestra stuff worked out. Basically, I'm just trying to find out which instruments work before I start working on big tunes.

I am amused, Phoenix, by how desperately you seek to troll around here.

Screw you. I was just stating the actual factual situation. Don't blame me if you suffer from amnesia.

Things change in the span of a few months or years. You were pulling straws.

And now, I've improved Crisis. And I don't just mean your usual fix-up-a-few-mistakes kind of improved. I mean, it's completely changed. Check it out.

Was Phoenix pulling straws from his head?

No one likes my MIDI?

Chill, it's just a MIDI anyway.

Actually, I don't really like the song. Sounds a bit "generic" (as in, it's obvious it's a MIDI, even when using a good soundfont).
Also: too much repetition, new instruments being added just play the exact melody as everything else, which means that the song doesn't really bring you anything new. You have a decent melody, but because it's repeated by everything at any given moment in the song it makes the song annoying. Try a few more melody combinations next to instrument combinations.

I'll be honest and say the tune got so annoying halfway through I stopped listening.

Are you sure you listened to my improved version? Because, I didn't really think it was that repetitive. But, still, you can't give me any real feedback until you listen to the second half. That half is the best, I reckon.

Also, Stephen, the guy from the Doctor Who MIDI Archive (He makes some kickass MIDIs), said it was a good MIDI and could see any way to improve it. But that's probably because he listened to it all.

Also, Stephen MP3-ised Crisis for me, and made it sound more realistic. I can email it to you or something, if you want a more realistic version?

"Are you sure you listened to my improved version?"
CrisisImproved.mid

I was thinking of using the melody to make something with more variation where the melody WOULDN'T get way repetitive, but Windows did something weird and crashed on me.

Also, I use nothing but alternative MIDI soft synths and some good sound fonts, which usually make better MIDIs sound like they weren't MIDIs at all. But with this song, it's ALWAYS blatantly obvious it's a MIDI.

Eh, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

But, I really don't see how you see that as repetitive! It simply builds all the instruments up slowly using the tune, then it all changes.

Okay, if you want a more realistic version, go check my website again.

Problem is, it builds up the song using the same melody over and over again for 80% of the instruments, making the tune in itself repetitive. How you can not hear this I don't really understand...

Okay, well, I'll try and work on it some more, if it'll make you happy. But did you look at the MP3-ised version? What did you think?

Downloaded the Mp3, have to transfer it to my other computer before I can preview it. But I'll give you my opinion on it soon.

As for the Midi, I can't download it for transfer cos it keeps trying to open it in a Quicktime tab =S

The instructions are on the page. Right click the MIDI link, and click 'Save Link As'.

Also, DaVince, I've fiddled with Crisis a little, and I've decreased the intro dramatically. Also, at the end I've set the drums to not fade out with the rest of the instruments, so, tell me what you think now. It's here.

It's a good improvement, there's a lot more going on than before in the song's structure.
I still have some comments, though:

You might be having a bit too many crashes, I mean, after every measure? Try to find the moments where it can sound most effective.

You need an "interlude", or "bridge", or whatever you like to call it. Meaning that somewhere in the middle of the song, you completely change the tone height and melody you're working with, and it builds up to make the "regular" melody that comes back after it sound greater. Otherwise it'll just keep going on the same and the same until the song repeats (assuming if one would repeat the song, of course).

EDIT: Oh yeah, you could do more interesting things with the bass notes too, like have them deviate a bit more from the "base tone height".

Okay, so...

a) reduce the amount of crashes.

b) add some sort of a bridge.

I can work with that.

And what do you mean by 'bass notes'?

Like this!

-------------------------------O--F
O E
-----------------------------O--D-
O C
---------------------------O--B---
O A
-------------------------O--G-----
O F
-----------------------O--E-------

Erm... what?

Those are bass notes on a score sheet.

Okay, DaVince, I spent a while working on it, but I couldn't really do anything about a bridge. All I could do was reduce the amount of crashes. I think I've put them in effective positions, but, what do you think?

Lala *BUMP*

DaVince, what do you think of my new version?

You're starting to get better. The same thing still repeats a lot, but at least it stops to take a breather here and there and gives more variation in instrumentation.

Now, if you could add a complete overthrow of the melody/tone height somewhere in the middle and then switch back to the main melody, it'd make it even nicer. Maybe some more variation in the tone height of the bass part too.

Edit: Here are some suggestions, maybe?

Okay, DaVince, for the past week or two, I've been working that into NoteWorthy and trying to fit it in with all my instruments and such (NoteWorthy is pure crap at importing MIDIs ) and it's sounding awesome! Once it's finished, it's going to be so cool. Thanks for those suggestions.

Cool, I'm looking forward to it (and your next piece, which should automatically be an improvement too, right?).

Okay, DaVince, I've worked hard on this. I couldn't quite get the intro right, and I couldn't find any way to get some dang drums in there, but this is what I've got. What do you think? And what could I add on to it? Is this what you had in mind for me to do?

Also, I must say, it's some really nice music you made there.

In my opinion that is much better, but it seems cut off, I think it would improve if you added a lower, longer note to the end. But besides that, I enjoyed the music.

Ditto; at least most of the improvements made the music better, and the end result is still pretty good.

Heh, I see you kept all pieces of the structure in the same place, you could have copied things over here and there, tried adding some more stuff of your own. My suggestion were, after all, just suggestions, actually parts that you can cut up here and there to spread over the rest over your song.

Still, things are getting a lot better. I agree on it being cut off though. The intro with the fade is awesome.

About percussion... How about using the toms? Like, maybe something like this. And here is another suggestion for the percussion... Of course, don't have the drums playing continuously, but later on in the song, to build tension. You can even leave them away for a later part in the song to have even more tension built - tension is part of the song's goal, after all.

PS. If you need a MIDI of the second percussion suggestion, lemme know. I think it loses its volume changes when I export to MIDI though.

"The intro with the fade is awesome.

That's why I put it in.

"Heh, I see you kept all pieces of the structure in the same place, you could have copied things over here and there, tried adding some more stuff of your own. My suggestion were, after all, just suggestions, actually parts that you can cut up here and there to spread over the rest over your song."

Okay, I took your advice, and I'm changing the basic melody to the original Crisis basic melody, because I preferred that. I also added in some other original stuff, and I'm working on getting the rest of your suggestion thing in with my new thing. If I'm making any sense.

Also, I managed to fit the original percussion in, and I'll take your advice with the tension thing.

Overall, this is turning out to be one heck of a MIDI.

Say, DaVince, you seem to know what you're talking about with MIDIs and stuff. Do you have a place where you store all your MIDIs on the net? I'd be interested in checking some of them out.

Actually, I don't usually make MIDIs, but rather music files in the module (module = MOD, XM, S3M, IT... I only use IT) format. I can make MIDIs with the program, though it's not too accurate with exporting, and I like using custom samples/instruments anyway.

They're on my site.

Whoa, man! Some of the stuff I got a chance to listen to is awesome!

Hehe, thanks! It doesn't contain much songs newer than 2007 though...

Okay, mate. This is epic! I've finally finished! What do you think?

Good stuff!

Right at the end it seems cut short a bit though, just that note.

I thought someone might say that. Do you think the note itself is too short, or the actual MIDI ends a bit abruptly at the end? Should I add a rest or two after it, or make the note itself longer?

The timing on the instruments sometimes seems stretched now (well, only near the part where the tone height changes)... Plus the fade out on the drums in the beginning actually removes tension. Actually, I don't think you should fade on the drums at all, but rather have them gradually come in by adding more drums (or removing them).

The rest of the MIDI's come along quite nicely. The end part is nice.

Yeah, I did think it sounded quite bland with no drums, but I wanted to hear what you thought. So, add the drums and stuff back in? Alright!