Stop the guinea pig torture in Newchurch
Take a look at this site. Especially at the photo gallery. Don't get sick though, since the photo's are really horrible. Lets help those poor guinea pigs. You can write an email to the several listed companies.
PLEASE HELP!!
Stop guinea pig torture
David Hall and Partners breed guinea pigs for laboratories to use in experiments. The business is run by the Hall family who have been sending animals off to die in laboratories for over 30 years.
Based in and around the village of Newchurch, Staffordshire the Halls have a number of stinking, windowless sheds where tens of thousands of guinea pigs are imprisoned at any one time awaiting torment inside laboratories across the world.
Video footage taken from within these breeding sheds during a raid by concerned campaigners showed a high mortality rate amongst the young. Also found was evidence of distresses mothers killing and eating their young, a behaviour exhibited by stressed animals who sense there is little chance of their offspring surviving.
The pens were filthy and full of excrement. Paperwork taken from the farm showed the pens, containing 9 females to one male, are only cleaned out once a week.
The Hall's think 5ft by 2ft is a suitable amount of space for ten adult guinea pigs and as many as 30 young at any one time. Within these prisons there is nowhere for the animals to persue their natural behaviour of hiding, foraging and burrowing.
There are so many guinea pigs dying in this hell hole that the bodies have to be removed on a daily basis.
These tiny creatures are being factory farmed in degrading conditions. In the sheds they are bored, extremely stressed and their natural patterns of behaviour are frustrated. They constantly self-mutilate or cannibalize each other as a result. They are then killed onsite or in the bloody laboratories in the Halls' ruthless quest for profit.
PLEASE HELP!!
Stop guinea pig torture
David Hall and Partners breed guinea pigs for laboratories to use in experiments. The business is run by the Hall family who have been sending animals off to die in laboratories for over 30 years.
Based in and around the village of Newchurch, Staffordshire the Halls have a number of stinking, windowless sheds where tens of thousands of guinea pigs are imprisoned at any one time awaiting torment inside laboratories across the world.
Video footage taken from within these breeding sheds during a raid by concerned campaigners showed a high mortality rate amongst the young. Also found was evidence of distresses mothers killing and eating their young, a behaviour exhibited by stressed animals who sense there is little chance of their offspring surviving.
The pens were filthy and full of excrement. Paperwork taken from the farm showed the pens, containing 9 females to one male, are only cleaned out once a week.
The Hall's think 5ft by 2ft is a suitable amount of space for ten adult guinea pigs and as many as 30 young at any one time. Within these prisons there is nowhere for the animals to persue their natural behaviour of hiding, foraging and burrowing.
There are so many guinea pigs dying in this hell hole that the bodies have to be removed on a daily basis.
These tiny creatures are being factory farmed in degrading conditions. In the sheds they are bored, extremely stressed and their natural patterns of behaviour are frustrated. They constantly self-mutilate or cannibalize each other as a result. They are then killed onsite or in the bloody laboratories in the Halls' ruthless quest for profit.
those little... die halls! maybe we should put those people in cages and torture them, see how they like it 
This.. This.. it's just... Stupid. Just plain and simple stupid! They're rats! RATS!! You know, filthy rodents! Gah! this so freaking stupid.... I shake my head in pity of the makers this site, and give my sincere hope that they find a life. Really. I'm all for a good cause, but.. there rats. Like, why would you want one as a pet even? It's like, "lets all go to the field, catch a rat, put them in a cage and name it Hemphry!" It's ludicrous! It's compleat and utter.. gah!!
Gah!!
Would the people of the site rather they used monkeys or, maybe the excess human population? I could give a few, uh, ... recomendations for thouse studies.
But anyway, the very concept of this site make me scream in the stupidity of the world!!
GAH!
Edit. Yes Tal. The Spelling error has been fixed. Too bad there are probably 35 more...
Gah!!
Would the people of the site rather they used monkeys or, maybe the excess human population? I could give a few, uh, ... recomendations for thouse studies.
But anyway, the very concept of this site make me scream in the stupidity of the world!!
GAH!
Edit. Yes Tal. The Spelling error has been fixed. Too bad there are probably 35 more...
Do you think Guinea Pigs would experiment on humans if they could? Kill the guinea pigs! Kill the rats! 
Yes!
My proof?
We all know the superintelligent multidementional beings in the form of mice will be doing tests on us until we figure out what the question is!! Unfortunalty, the earth will blow up then, but oh well.
There is always cricket.
My proof?
We all know the superintelligent multidementional beings in the form of mice will be doing tests on us until we figure out what the question is!! Unfortunalty, the earth will blow up then, but oh well.
There is always cricket.
Yes, guinea pig torture is horrible, but look at the human genocide occuring in Africa. We're sustaining guinea pig existance while wiping out our own. Why does the US do nothing? Why do we hear nothing of it? Instead America invades the faultlines of the Middle East, with tensions building, while people starving to death and put through horrors beyond our imagination are begging for US intervention. And I could go on for hours, but I have a paper to write, on the fourth of frickin July.
Edit: And this is only one of the countless horrors occuring to the human world, that animal rights protestors apparently don't recognize as significant as some animals. And believe me, though guinea pigs are suffering, there are humans out there suffering far worse physical, and not to mention emotional, stress. The closer things hit home, the more we should deal with them. So why then, I say, should we place various animals that have little or no impact on our lives in front of millions of people dying who could be helping stabilize the world instead of tearing apart their own? Again, I rant, and I have to write a paper, but I just felt I needed to broaden what I was saying beyond just African genocides, to better state my point. Which is, stop human suffering and conflict all of the world, and join Hinduism, and look past this illusory existance! Practice Yogic activities and free yourselves from karma, and find (and "become", the idea, at least, of) Atman (or Brahman)!
Edit 2: Wow, that was a long edit, sorry about that, I'm done now.
Edit: And this is only one of the countless horrors occuring to the human world, that animal rights protestors apparently don't recognize as significant as some animals. And believe me, though guinea pigs are suffering, there are humans out there suffering far worse physical, and not to mention emotional, stress. The closer things hit home, the more we should deal with them. So why then, I say, should we place various animals that have little or no impact on our lives in front of millions of people dying who could be helping stabilize the world instead of tearing apart their own? Again, I rant, and I have to write a paper, but I just felt I needed to broaden what I was saying beyond just African genocides, to better state my point. Which is, stop human suffering and conflict all of the world, and join Hinduism, and look past this illusory existance! Practice Yogic activities and free yourselves from karma, and find (and "become", the idea, at least, of) Atman (or Brahman)!
Edit 2: Wow, that was a long edit, sorry about that, I'm done now.
July 5th 2003, 03:11 AM
Dukie
Chrispy, Eattherats, what the hell? I didn't expect this from you guys..
The site is talking about Guinea pigs, not rats! The very fact that you don't even care to make the distinction already says enough. And there are companies that DON'T test on animals, so if one can survive without these cruel methodes, all can.
I'm still wondering which of the two posts is the even more idiotic one, but I'll go for Eattherats's.
Yeah, let's not care about animals, fudge the enviroment, humans are the most precious things in the world. You don't hear about Africa cause that's not interesting enough, not good enough for the ratings. And people aren't "begging for US intervention", I don't know where you got that. And if I'm to follow your course of thought, then the millions of Arabs can die too, cause they absolutely no impact on your life.
Bleh, Redink is better at pointing out obvious stupidity, but I try.. But I guess you guys have got some psychological issues, so you can blame it on that.
The site is talking about Guinea pigs, not rats! The very fact that you don't even care to make the distinction already says enough. And there are companies that DON'T test on animals, so if one can survive without these cruel methodes, all can.
I'm still wondering which of the two posts is the even more idiotic one, but I'll go for Eattherats's.
Yeah, let's not care about animals, fudge the enviroment, humans are the most precious things in the world. You don't hear about Africa cause that's not interesting enough, not good enough for the ratings. And people aren't "begging for US intervention", I don't know where you got that. And if I'm to follow your course of thought, then the millions of Arabs can die too, cause they absolutely no impact on your life.
Bleh, Redink is better at pointing out obvious stupidity, but I try.. But I guess you guys have got some psychological issues, so you can blame it on that.
Dammit...I too have to agree with Dukie. Which isn't like me at all. Guinea Pigs are great, and are not rats!
Okay, let me clarify some things.
Yeah, let's not care about animals, fudge the enviroment, humans are the most precious things in the world.
I didn't say completely overlook animals and the environment, but since other humans are of closer relation, and thus have more direct and immediete consequences to us, then yes, we should put ourselves in front of the environment and animals. However, what it seems to imply to you, but does not imply, is that just because our primary concern (at least of these three things) should be for humans, we cannot have secondary concerns that are still looked after.
You don't hear about Africa cause that's not interesting enough, not good enough for the ratings.
Wrong. If people were to hear about the tribes killing each other off every single day, wiping each other from the face of the earth, it would seem more interesting to most of them than, for example, rainforest depletion in Brazil. Do you know anything about the 1994 Rwanda genocides? Or do you first connect that year with Kurt Cobain's suicide? Which should be more important? The reason we don't hear about it is because the US isn't planning on intervening any time soon, or at all, and therefore doesn't need to rally the support of the gullible American majority.
And people aren't "begging for US intervention", I don't know where you got that.
I got that from journal articles online and not, my International Relations professor, and over all, searching for articles on it. Maybe you should sometime too, you might learn more about the world today than the government-media tells you.
And if I'm to follow your course of thought, then the millions of Arabs can die too, cause they absolutely no impact on your life.
Eh, I was going to type something rather rude here, but decided against it, since you have no idea about the impact the Arab world has today. (Oh, and by the way, the Arab world is made of Arabs )
Yeah, let's not care about animals, fudge the enviroment, humans are the most precious things in the world.
I didn't say completely overlook animals and the environment, but since other humans are of closer relation, and thus have more direct and immediete consequences to us, then yes, we should put ourselves in front of the environment and animals. However, what it seems to imply to you, but does not imply, is that just because our primary concern (at least of these three things) should be for humans, we cannot have secondary concerns that are still looked after.
You don't hear about Africa cause that's not interesting enough, not good enough for the ratings.
Wrong. If people were to hear about the tribes killing each other off every single day, wiping each other from the face of the earth, it would seem more interesting to most of them than, for example, rainforest depletion in Brazil. Do you know anything about the 1994 Rwanda genocides? Or do you first connect that year with Kurt Cobain's suicide? Which should be more important? The reason we don't hear about it is because the US isn't planning on intervening any time soon, or at all, and therefore doesn't need to rally the support of the gullible American majority.
And people aren't "begging for US intervention", I don't know where you got that.
I got that from journal articles online and not, my International Relations professor, and over all, searching for articles on it. Maybe you should sometime too, you might learn more about the world today than the government-media tells you.
And if I'm to follow your course of thought, then the millions of Arabs can die too, cause they absolutely no impact on your life.
Eh, I was going to type something rather rude here, but decided against it, since you have no idea about the impact the Arab world has today. (Oh, and by the way, the Arab world is made of Arabs
)Eh, I'll respond to Chrispy's half too.
The problem is not that he makes the distinction, it's that you do make the distinction between them. What's wrong with him not making a distinction? If you're trying to imply that Guinea pigs have more of a right to live than rats, and rats deserve more torture than GP's...well, that should speak for itself. And what are the companies that don't test on animals? And what things do they test? Some things require live test subjects, in case you didn't know.
Anyway, don't take this as I'm a pro-GP tortue guy. In fact the conditions they are in sicken me as well. My point is that there are things more important than GP's, that you should adhere to.
The problem is not that he makes the distinction, it's that you do make the distinction between them. What's wrong with him not making a distinction? If you're trying to imply that Guinea pigs have more of a right to live than rats, and rats deserve more torture than GP's...well, that should speak for itself. And what are the companies that don't test on animals? And what things do they test? Some things require live test subjects, in case you didn't know.
Anyway, don't take this as I'm a pro-GP tortue guy. In fact the conditions they are in sicken me as well. My point is that there are things more important than GP's, that you should adhere to.
Sorry if I came across saying that I supported torture of animals/animal testing, cause I don't. I just didn't like the site as its using the urban belief that guinea pigs are in some way 'better' than rats, which I don't really see, in order to promote sympathy for there cause, and make a buck. They don't even say what kind of animal testing goes on with the rats. They say,: "..until they arrive at the laboratories where they will die in vicious and useless experiments" Useless. Hmmm. Thats it. Would there supporters be so for them if they learnt just what these useless experiments were? ex: Shampoo/Conditioner, soaps, skin care products, most anything that has a danger or warning sign (how do you think that they find out what this or that might do?), most types of medicine and quite a bit more.
I also wonder how these pictures were made? Because if the guy let the photographers come in, these are probably rare cases that are really bad, or if not, did they break and enter or tresspass?
I don't really know. Some of the pictures look like they don't even come from the farm, almost like they came from laboratories that were already testing on the animals. And why thouse animals look so terrified: You shine a million candlepower or whatever light on a friend less that a meter away and you see if they don't cringe or back away.
Oh yes, and the prominent dead one's: maybe they are ones that died, and were put in a cage in the back to be hauled away later. One can't be certin.
And the living conditions don't look too bad for them. If you do think that thats bad, you should look how they mass produce chickens and egg's, now thats tight.
Gah, I don't even like arguing this side, but still, I have to, as no one here is trying to get the other side of the story.
I don't make the distinction between the two, because at my farm, my ever so thoughtful cousins mercifully released a bunch of them out. Come harvest time, we find out they got into the grain. Made me so freaking angry.....
Oh well. 'scuze the spelling errors, I was in a hurry. Make of this what you will.
Ta.
I also wonder how these pictures were made? Because if the guy let the photographers come in, these are probably rare cases that are really bad, or if not, did they break and enter or tresspass?
I don't really know. Some of the pictures look like they don't even come from the farm, almost like they came from laboratories that were already testing on the animals. And why thouse animals look so terrified: You shine a million candlepower or whatever light on a friend less that a meter away and you see if they don't cringe or back away.
Oh yes, and the prominent dead one's: maybe they are ones that died, and were put in a cage in the back to be hauled away later. One can't be certin.
And the living conditions don't look too bad for them. If you do think that thats bad, you should look how they mass produce chickens and egg's, now thats tight.
Gah, I don't even like arguing this side, but still, I have to, as no one here is trying to get the other side of the story.
I don't make the distinction between the two, because at my farm, my ever so thoughtful cousins mercifully released a bunch of them out. Come harvest time, we find out they got into the grain. Made me so freaking angry.....
Oh well. 'scuze the spelling errors, I was in a hurry. Make of this what you will.
Ta.
July 5th 2003, 08:45 AM
EvilSmurf
Rats in sewers are the kind they should use. BUT no the psyco fugs think its ok its not cool not at all but go figurre what if they where us and we where them would the world be better off?
I think we have a much more important disaster at hand right here: Chrispy has spelled "ludicrous" as "ludacris". This is the most shocking disturbance in human nature that I've witnessed since the death of disco.
Chrispy! We do not learn how to spell from rappers!
...This post was made in jest, mostly, but I had to correct him. I do feel bad that the guinea pigs are going through torture, though.. I love guinea pigs. *big heart goes here*
Chrispy! We do not learn how to spell from rappers!
...This post was made in jest, mostly, but I had to correct him.
I do feel bad that the guinea pigs are going through torture, though.. I love guinea pigs. *big heart goes here*
You guys write way too much. Now you're gonna make me write a lot too. I never should have opened my mouth. But I'm right though and I'm gonna try to keep this short.
I would just like to say, it not necessary for companies who make anything EXCEPT for medicines to test on animals. In this day and age, there are enough (more expensive) other ways of testing side effects and whatnot. So companies that test on animals are just minimizing their expenses at the cost of animals. A shame. You guys think there are no companies that don't test on animals? Check this out. I'll wait. Seen that? Quite a huge list, ay? I see the Body Shop there, I see Estee Lauder.. Hmm don't they only make skin and hair care products? Don't they need to test on animals? For macaroni's sake, no!
In fact, you should check out the whole PETA site, you'll learn a lot. It makes no difference that that sites only tries to protect GP's, it's better than nothing! All animals should be protected and all initiatives like this should be supported. The people who made this site definitely care about other animals too, they've just made this their cause, you can fight everything at once.
I guess that covers Chrispy, but dude, seriously, I read the blogs, you've got a depression, go see a psychologist or a doctor, you'd benefit from it.. Maybe this isn't the time or place to mention this, but still.. (same thing for you Rey)
Now Eattherats, you're just wrong on way too many topics for me to cover, but I'll try. Like, you claim that I don't know more about the world than what the "goverment-media" tells me. But I don't live in the USA, I live in Belgium, so you have no clue what MY media or MY government tells me. It's you who is brainwashed and think of the Arab world as a direct threat to you, just because of 9/11 (and the following media-hype, Bush's plans, etc..) while more than 99% of the population doesn't even care about you guys. There will always be people who hate the USA, but the underlieing reasons for that should be tackled, instead of invading every country.
And if African genocides would attract ratings, you WOULD see them on your screen every day, you don't think the networks would want those ratings? Point is, it's still boring, it's always the same thing, so it's not on TV.
I hope I can stop here, the point about animal testing has been made, if anyone still doesn't condemn animal testing after visiting the PETA-site seek help.
I would just like to say, it not necessary for companies who make anything EXCEPT for medicines to test on animals. In this day and age, there are enough (more expensive) other ways of testing side effects and whatnot. So companies that test on animals are just minimizing their expenses at the cost of animals. A shame. You guys think there are no companies that don't test on animals? Check this out. I'll wait. Seen that? Quite a huge list, ay? I see the Body Shop there, I see Estee Lauder.. Hmm don't they only make skin and hair care products? Don't they need to test on animals? For macaroni's sake, no!
In fact, you should check out the whole PETA site, you'll learn a lot. It makes no difference that that sites only tries to protect GP's, it's better than nothing! All animals should be protected and all initiatives like this should be supported. The people who made this site definitely care about other animals too, they've just made this their cause, you can fight everything at once.
I guess that covers Chrispy, but dude, seriously, I read the blogs, you've got a depression, go see a psychologist or a doctor, you'd benefit from it.. Maybe this isn't the time or place to mention this, but still.. (same thing for you Rey)
Now Eattherats, you're just wrong on way too many topics for me to cover, but I'll try. Like, you claim that I don't know more about the world than what the "goverment-media" tells me. But I don't live in the USA, I live in Belgium, so you have no clue what MY media or MY government tells me. It's you who is brainwashed and think of the Arab world as a direct threat to you, just because of 9/11 (and the following media-hype, Bush's plans, etc..) while more than 99% of the population doesn't even care about you guys. There will always be people who hate the USA, but the underlieing reasons for that should be tackled, instead of invading every country.
And if African genocides would attract ratings, you WOULD see them on your screen every day, you don't think the networks would want those ratings? Point is, it's still boring, it's always the same thing, so it's not on TV.
I hope I can stop here, the point about animal testing has been made, if anyone still doesn't condemn animal testing after visiting the PETA-site seek help.
But I'm right though
Well, actually, you can't technically be right or wrong here since it's all opinion... but that's just a minor detail.
My real point is that you're (possibly, perhaps you've looked into other sources as well) getting all your info from PETA. These are people who are very, very opinionated about this, and their site going to attempt to convince you that they are right and all other opinions are wrong. The point is, they're going to be more than a little biased, and if you make a decision about one opinion being correct and others being incorrect before looking at an argument for the other side, you technically aren't well-informed enough to pick a side. (Note that I'm not accusing Dukie of not looking at an argument for the other side before making his claims, I'm just stating this...)
As for my stance on animal testing... yeah, it's bad, but I'm not going to go become an activist because of it. Personally, I agree with EatTheRats that there are more important issues for me to be concerned with... although technically I'm not too terribly concerned with them right now seeing as I'm quite tired and should probably take a nap. Anyways. If you're so adamently against animal testing that you have to post a big rant on a Dink Smallwood message board, why don't you actually hop a flight to these testing labs and picket, or start a letter-writing campaign, or organize a protest? Make your bite louder than your bark and do something about this if you have such an issue with it. Change the world or something.
Well, actually, you can't technically be right or wrong here since it's all opinion... but that's just a minor detail.
My real point is that you're (possibly, perhaps you've looked into other sources as well) getting all your info from PETA. These are people who are very, very opinionated about this, and their site going to attempt to convince you that they are right and all other opinions are wrong. The point is, they're going to be more than a little biased, and if you make a decision about one opinion being correct and others being incorrect before looking at an argument for the other side, you technically aren't well-informed enough to pick a side. (Note that I'm not accusing Dukie of not looking at an argument for the other side before making his claims, I'm just stating this...)
As for my stance on animal testing... yeah, it's bad, but I'm not going to go become an activist because of it. Personally, I agree with EatTheRats that there are more important issues for me to be concerned with... although technically I'm not too terribly concerned with them right now seeing as I'm quite tired and should probably take a nap.
Anyways. If you're so adamently against animal testing that you have to post a big rant on a Dink Smallwood message board, why don't you actually hop a flight to these testing labs and picket, or start a letter-writing campaign, or organize a protest? Make your bite louder than your bark and do something about this if you have such an issue with it. Change the world or something. Dukie, you presume that you are correct, and you assert that Chrispy and I have psychological problems. That, bluntly put, is useless, and immaterial to what we're talking about. First of all, if you leave your mind closed before an argument begins and hold to your belief stubbornly no matter what reason is shown to you, then of course you'll say, "I'm right though", and refuse clear evidence. Second, you are not a psychologist (as far as I know), and even if you are, you haven't had nearly a complete enough evaluation of either of us to claim we suffer from mental problems. Just using it to make you seem sane and right is not relevant right now.
Anyway, you've all avoided my strongest points in my earlier post.
There are experiments that require live subjects, in order for them to be accurate, and I never said there weren't any companies that didn't test on animals.
Funfact: PETA claimed that milking cows hurt them, and we should stop milking them and drink beer instead.
When I said you don't know much more than what the media tells you, it was based on what you said in earlier posts, like when you said that the Arab world has no impact on my life whatsoever.
I don't believe, and never said anything to imply that I thought, that the Arab world is a direct threat to me, though many government systems and individuals within them are.
Anyway, a point was there are more important issues that require more immediete responses from people than animals rights and environment because they have a more immediete, greater, and direct impact on us, such as genocide, world hunger and poverty, and international conflicts, and I just started this because I didn't really understand why Guinea pig torture was addressed before things like genocide. As you can see, I got carried away, because of various things. Sorry about that.
Just because something isn't entertaining doesn't mean it shouldn't be known by the public. It's the same thing, the same mass murder going on daily. Does it make it okay to overlook it? If muggers kept stealing purses from the elderly in your neighborhood, and the elderly bore you, is it okay to let it happen? What kind of logic are you operating on? Yet you concern yourself more with cuddly animals receiving experiments for the betterment of your lifestyle.
Anyway, I forgot most of my points in typing this, so I'm going to get rid of most of it. Forgive me if I offended anybody or made little sense.
On a final note, stop Guinea pig torture!
(Edited for content)
Anyway, you've all avoided my strongest points in my earlier post.
There are experiments that require live subjects, in order for them to be accurate, and I never said there weren't any companies that didn't test on animals.
Funfact: PETA claimed that milking cows hurt them, and we should stop milking them and drink beer instead.
When I said you don't know much more than what the media tells you, it was based on what you said in earlier posts, like when you said that the Arab world has no impact on my life whatsoever.
I don't believe, and never said anything to imply that I thought, that the Arab world is a direct threat to me, though many government systems and individuals within them are.
Anyway, a point was there are more important issues that require more immediete responses from people than animals rights and environment because they have a more immediete, greater, and direct impact on us, such as genocide, world hunger and poverty, and international conflicts, and I just started this because I didn't really understand why Guinea pig torture was addressed before things like genocide. As you can see, I got carried away, because of various things. Sorry about that.
Just because something isn't entertaining doesn't mean it shouldn't be known by the public. It's the same thing, the same mass murder going on daily. Does it make it okay to overlook it? If muggers kept stealing purses from the elderly in your neighborhood, and the elderly bore you, is it okay to let it happen? What kind of logic are you operating on? Yet you concern yourself more with cuddly animals receiving experiments for the betterment of your lifestyle.
Anyway, I forgot most of my points in typing this, so I'm going to get rid of most of it. Forgive me if I offended anybody or made little sense.
On a final note, stop Guinea pig torture!
(Edited for content)
It never was my intention to start a rant (although the discussion is quite interesting 
), I just asked for help.
If you don't want to help, then don't. But don't accuse me of my interest in guinea pigs and my effort to try to help them.
If you think that there are more important issues to be concerned with, then that's an opinion you are entitled to since you ARE entitled to have your own opinions - as I am entitled to mine. And that those differ or can differ is only normal.
And so is the opinion that there are more important issues than animals rights YOUR opinion - and you have every right to have that opinion. (But it's just an opinion among many, so it's not THE or the RIGHT opinion.) My opinion is that I stand up for animal rights and that's MY opinion and I have every right to have that opinion. (But it's just an opinion among many, so it's not THE or the RIGHT opinion.)
And that I posted this message was part of my effort to help. Not everyone has the funds to fly to testlabs and help directly with money or goods - a lot have to do it the small way, in writing letters - and posting messages like I did on this forum.
And those things that are not known to the public but are a wrong, should indeed be known - as I did when letting everybody know what was going on in Newchurch.
But don't ridicule my effort to help. You may think guinea pigs are silly little things or not that important at all, I don't. It's ok for you to think that and to have the opinion that guinea pigs couldn't possibly have any immediate, great or direct impact on my life, but the fact is, they do. I just rescued two of them, and altough that may not be the thing you would be doing or would be interested in, you should not ridicule anyone who tries to help animals.
), I just asked for help.If you don't want to help, then don't. But don't accuse me of my interest in guinea pigs and my effort to try to help them.
If you think that there are more important issues to be concerned with, then that's an opinion you are entitled to since you ARE entitled to have your own opinions - as I am entitled to mine. And that those differ or can differ is only normal.
And so is the opinion that there are more important issues than animals rights YOUR opinion - and you have every right to have that opinion. (But it's just an opinion among many, so it's not THE or the RIGHT opinion.) My opinion is that I stand up for animal rights and that's MY opinion and I have every right to have that opinion. (But it's just an opinion among many, so it's not THE or the RIGHT opinion.)
And that I posted this message was part of my effort to help. Not everyone has the funds to fly to testlabs and help directly with money or goods - a lot have to do it the small way, in writing letters - and posting messages like I did on this forum.
And those things that are not known to the public but are a wrong, should indeed be known - as I did when letting everybody know what was going on in Newchurch.
But don't ridicule my effort to help. You may think guinea pigs are silly little things or not that important at all, I don't. It's ok for you to think that and to have the opinion that guinea pigs couldn't possibly have any immediate, great or direct impact on my life, but the fact is, they do. I just rescued two of them, and altough that may not be the thing you would be doing or would be interested in, you should not ridicule anyone who tries to help animals.
Eh, yeah, sorry about that, it was more for Dukie, but I was kind of in emotional turmoil for a moment, as I found out some bad news. But, as I said before, I, in no way support GP torture. So sorry if I offended anybody.
I'll keep my opinon as short as possible.
Tal: Yes, my spelling is quite bad. Yes, I should fix it. I think I'm lucky that I found the button to post it.
Dukie: I mentioned a few thing that they test on animals, and it sickens me that they still do that foolish stuff, and I say again, I don't support it.
It's ruddy difficult trying to find plausable theories to argue for something that I find wrong. I want people to question what they read on these kind of sites, as it is extreamly biased, and there methods can be... unconventional. ex: 'raids'? Um, sure.... perfectly legal.
Re: blogs: I question my (in)sanity enough, I don't need you to do it also.
I know some, scratch that, most people here don't understand why I don't really care about this. I'll try to explain. I live in an area in which people will shoot and kill anything and everything for 'sport' no matter if its endagered, or if there are laws protecting it or whatever.
About Guinea pigs, I can't really differentiate. I can't help but think that they are rats. Sure, nicely bred rats, but still... Can't they still breed with common field rats? And the rodents cost me a good deal of money a few years back, so... These are not the same guinea pigs but still. Can any of you understand where I am coming from? You may not agree, but then again, like Binirit says, its your opinion.
Also, I haven't ridiculed anyones effort to help (I hopefully think), with the exception of the creators of that site, for reasons I've mentioned already.
Darn. Didn't keep it short. Oh well.
Tal: Yes, my spelling is quite bad. Yes, I should fix it. I think I'm lucky that I found the button to post it.
Dukie: I mentioned a few thing that they test on animals, and it sickens me that they still do that foolish stuff, and I say again, I don't support it.
It's ruddy difficult trying to find plausable theories to argue for something that I find wrong. I want people to question what they read on these kind of sites, as it is extreamly biased, and there methods can be... unconventional. ex: 'raids'? Um, sure.... perfectly legal.
Re: blogs: I question my (in)sanity enough, I don't need you to do it also.
I know some, scratch that, most people here don't understand why I don't really care about this. I'll try to explain. I live in an area in which people will shoot and kill anything and everything for 'sport' no matter if its endagered, or if there are laws protecting it or whatever.
About Guinea pigs, I can't really differentiate. I can't help but think that they are rats. Sure, nicely bred rats, but still... Can't they still breed with common field rats? And the rodents cost me a good deal of money a few years back, so... These are not the same guinea pigs but still. Can any of you understand where I am coming from? You may not agree, but then again, like Binirit says, its your opinion.
Also, I haven't ridiculed anyones effort to help (I hopefully think), with the exception of the creators of that site, for reasons I've mentioned already.
Darn. Didn't keep it short. Oh well.
That doesn't sound too good.
Ok, I take back everything I said about the psychological problems. I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that. I'm a dilettant psychologist, but I try to help people. Though, this really wasn't the time nor place. On closer inspection, you guys are pretty normal though (you too Chrispy
And you're right Allikitten (opinion or not!) about me saying I was right, I take that back too, so..
ANIMAL STUFF
I would like to say that, after reading lots of stuff, it is my opinion that animal testing is unnecessary and obviously cruel. So what did I read?
These PETA Fact Sheets may be biased, but facts are facts and they raise some intresting points. (Read the "Alternatives: Testing Without Torture" part and the "Health Charities: Helping or Hurting" parts.
This U. S. Food and Drug Administration page strongly urges cosmetic manufacturers to conduct whatever tests are appropriate to establish that their cosmetics are safe, allowing animals tests.
The Americans for Medical Progress
are pretty biased themselves. They make a point, but probably don't even know about other ways of testing medicines.
This site is kinda hippy but still states that "However, more and more professionals believe that animal testing may delay the development instead because it may provide inaccurate and mistaken information. Already in foreign countries, many doctors and scientists have formed associations acting against animal testing", which is still correct.
World Chiropractic Alliance reports a story about a Nobel Prize winner who developed a technology he says he says could eliminate the need for animal testing.
Anyway, there's too many links for me to post here. So, on the cosmetics side: I think the PETA list of companies that don't do at's (shorter) proves that they are not necesarry and that other companies are probably money-hungry (dang Unilever and Proctor & Gamble!)
As a marketeer, I'd oppose to animals tests in companies I work for (PETA says non-animal tests are cheaper, we'll see..) But letter-writing campagnes or picketing won't do much, Alli
On the medical site: Lots of progress has been made thanks to animal testing, but these days, I can imagine doing without (considering the many alternatives.
NON ANIMAL STUFF
Anyway, Rey, about the so called impact of the Arab world. Would you have said that the arab world had an impact on you before 9/11? I think it's safe to say no (correct me if I'm wrong) because the US govermnent hadn't started their mass-marketing yet then.
I saw this (unbiased) documentary yesterday on belgian tv detailing how the US goverment fooled the majority of the American population into thinking a war on Iraq Arab was necessary. (I know it's over, Allikitten, you said somewhere we should let go and focus on the future, but they really lied to you guys and you shouldn't just take that)
Your goverment pulled everything out of the closet:
"Secret" documents detailling Iraq's nuclear plans (one based on a student's paper, some even forged), the CIA even knew that some documents were forged, but they didn't act.
A tape they hadn't been able to translate yet was presented as crucial evidence as proof of Osama's ties with Iraq.
A very disturbing fact was that immedeatly after the 9/11 bombing, the Pentagon received word to investigate all possible ties between Iraq and Osama, it was the perfect gift for the Bush-administration
And there was this fake debate in the Senator where senator Kenndy seemed to critise(but only vere barely) the idea of war but buckled down, knowing he couldn't openly express his anti-war stance (like he did 3 months before that)
My point is (and maybe someday you guys will know it too) that that war was totally unprovoked, Saddam wasn't planning squat, no matter what they made you believe.
I see the BBC and the British government are even fighting about how the "evidence" was presented, interesting.
Couple that with the goverment completely controlling the media. There are no programs that critise the government, are there? Oh wait, I forget, some people like Micheal Moore dare, but get cancelled soon after that. Anyway, they turned the war into a bizarre reality show, spouting nothing but good news. And CNN even fired that one reporter because expressed some criticism towards the US goverment, how's that for censorship?
So... The war is over, no WMD's have been found (fat chance) and after 9/11, there haven't been any new terrorist strikes aimed the the USA. There never was an Arab threat, it was just (and still is) a cover-up for a war on Iraq (which we all know was about oil).
So, Rey (if you're still there) could you please explain the Arab threat and it's impact on your life to me?
Btw, genocide, world hunger and poverty, however awful, DO have NO effect on your life, you live on the wealthy side, remember?
Anyway, Rey, you'll find this interesting, you do know about the Genocide-law belgium used to have (a week ago)? It allowed for all kinds of war victims to prosecute their agressors in Belgium (we formed this (never before seen) law in response to Africa's genocides). But then someone filed a lawsuit against Powell, Rummfeld and Bush! Then the nasty Americans made us change our law so only belgian victims could file a lawsuit and they could go free. Now the law is pretty useless. Go USA!
Anyway, GP-torture should both be adressed simultaneously
Also, I never said things like Genocide shouldn't be on TV, I was just explaining why they are not on TV, thinking as a TV producer. And when I say not on TV, I mean not on TV in the USA, cause they do still televise injustice like that over here. I also think it should be on tv I even watch that crap (like documentary about the USA and such
Sorry if I offended someone, it's been some hours since I started writing this and I don't remember what I wrote.. there'll probably be some spelling mistakes too
Peace out!
And you're right Allikitten (opinion or not!) about me saying I was right, I take that back too, so..
ANIMAL STUFF
I would like to say that, after reading lots of stuff, it is my opinion that animal testing is unnecessary and obviously cruel. So what did I read?
These PETA Fact Sheets may be biased, but facts are facts and they raise some intresting points. (Read the "Alternatives: Testing Without Torture" part and the "Health Charities: Helping or Hurting" parts.
This U. S. Food and Drug Administration page strongly urges cosmetic manufacturers to conduct whatever tests are appropriate to establish that their cosmetics are safe, allowing animals tests.
The Americans for Medical Progress
are pretty biased themselves. They make a point, but probably don't even know about other ways of testing medicines.
This site is kinda hippy but still states that "However, more and more professionals believe that animal testing may delay the development instead because it may provide inaccurate and mistaken information. Already in foreign countries, many doctors and scientists have formed associations acting against animal testing", which is still correct.
World Chiropractic Alliance reports a story about a Nobel Prize winner who developed a technology he says he says could eliminate the need for animal testing.
Anyway, there's too many links for me to post here. So, on the cosmetics side: I think the PETA list of companies that don't do at's (shorter) proves that they are not necesarry and that other companies are probably money-hungry (dang Unilever and Proctor & Gamble!)
As a marketeer, I'd oppose to animals tests in companies I work for (PETA says non-animal tests are cheaper, we'll see..) But letter-writing campagnes or picketing won't do much, Alli
On the medical site: Lots of progress has been made thanks to animal testing, but these days, I can imagine doing without (considering the many alternatives.
NON ANIMAL STUFF
Anyway, Rey, about the so called impact of the Arab world. Would you have said that the arab world had an impact on you before 9/11? I think it's safe to say no (correct me if I'm wrong) because the US govermnent hadn't started their mass-marketing yet then.
I saw this (unbiased) documentary yesterday on belgian tv detailing how the US goverment fooled the majority of the American population into thinking a war on Iraq Arab was necessary. (I know it's over, Allikitten, you said somewhere we should let go and focus on the future, but they really lied to you guys and you shouldn't just take that)
Your goverment pulled everything out of the closet:
"Secret" documents detailling Iraq's nuclear plans (one based on a student's paper, some even forged), the CIA even knew that some documents were forged, but they didn't act.
A tape they hadn't been able to translate yet was presented as crucial evidence as proof of Osama's ties with Iraq.
A very disturbing fact was that immedeatly after the 9/11 bombing, the Pentagon received word to investigate all possible ties between Iraq and Osama, it was the perfect gift for the Bush-administration
And there was this fake debate in the Senator where senator Kenndy seemed to critise(but only vere barely) the idea of war but buckled down, knowing he couldn't openly express his anti-war stance (like he did 3 months before that)
My point is (and maybe someday you guys will know it too) that that war was totally unprovoked, Saddam wasn't planning squat, no matter what they made you believe.
I see the BBC and the British government are even fighting about how the "evidence" was presented, interesting.
Couple that with the goverment completely controlling the media. There are no programs that critise the government, are there? Oh wait, I forget, some people like Micheal Moore dare, but get cancelled soon after that. Anyway, they turned the war into a bizarre reality show, spouting nothing but good news. And CNN even fired that one reporter because expressed some criticism towards the US goverment, how's that for censorship?
So... The war is over, no WMD's have been found (fat chance) and after 9/11, there haven't been any new terrorist strikes aimed the the USA. There never was an Arab threat, it was just (and still is) a cover-up for a war on Iraq (which we all know was about oil).
So, Rey (if you're still there) could you please explain the Arab threat and it's impact on your life to me?
Btw, genocide, world hunger and poverty, however awful, DO have NO effect on your life, you live on the wealthy side, remember?
Anyway, Rey, you'll find this interesting, you do know about the Genocide-law belgium used to have (a week ago)? It allowed for all kinds of war victims to prosecute their agressors in Belgium (we formed this (never before seen) law in response to Africa's genocides). But then someone filed a lawsuit against Powell, Rummfeld and Bush! Then the nasty Americans made us change our law so only belgian victims could file a lawsuit and they could go free. Now the law is pretty useless. Go USA!
Anyway, GP-torture should both be adressed simultaneously
Also, I never said things like Genocide shouldn't be on TV, I was just explaining why they are not on TV, thinking as a TV producer. And when I say not on TV, I mean not on TV in the USA, cause they do still televise injustice like that over here. I also think it should be on tv I even watch that crap (like documentary about the USA and such
Sorry if I offended someone, it's been some hours since I started writing this and I don't remember what I wrote.. there'll probably be some spelling mistakes too
Peace out!
What have you all got against rats, dammit??
They're rodents just like quinea pigs and hamsters etc. so don't go racist on them!
They're rodents just like quinea pigs and hamsters etc. so don't go racist on them!
I didn't! I didn't!
No, well, I read the part about the guinea pigs, at least. *much applause goes here for looking at information about other side of argument*
And I'm sure that someone, somewhere, once upon a time, also claimed that letter writing and/or picketing wouldn't do much good. And then someone else started a letter writing campaign and went picketing and changed the world. After that, they told the other person they had been wrong and drop-kicked an angry hedgehog into their face.
Moral of the story: Don't underestimate the power of protest unless you want an angry hedgehog in your face.
No, well, I read the part about the guinea pigs, at least. *much applause goes here for looking at information about other side of argument*
And I'm sure that someone, somewhere, once upon a time, also claimed that letter writing and/or picketing wouldn't do much good. And then someone else started a letter writing campaign and went picketing and changed the world. After that, they told the other person they had been wrong and drop-kicked an angry hedgehog into their face.
Moral of the story: Don't underestimate the power of protest unless you want an angry hedgehog in your face.
Don't underestimate the power of protest
Have you already protested via email against the GP Newchurch torture?
Have you already protested via email against the GP Newchurch torture?
There's no message here: I relpyed to the wrong topic.
There's the problem with opening > 20 windows at once.
<edit>
Oh, yeah, Dukie: Thanks! I did read it all. I'm really bored....
There's the problem with opening > 20 windows at once.
<edit>
Oh, yeah, Dukie: Thanks! I did read it all. I'm really bored....
No... in my first message, I think I made it somewhat clear that while I think animal testing is bad, I don't feel terribly strongly about it and I'm not going to take action against it. I was suggesting that those who do feel strongly about it take action.
All kinds of nature and animal activists can stick their heads to their asses and think about that what they are doing. For example, here in Finland animal activists constantly make attacks to eg. fox farms and release the animals there. But when the foxes are released to the wilderness, they DIE. Why? Well, simply because they don't know how to hunt after a long time of captivity. But polecats are different. First they kill all the birds and small animals in a large area, and then die.
I can't remember what year it was, but once anyway, animal activists climbed over the fence in a fox farm. The farmer noticed, and picked a shotgun from his gun closet. The activists tried to escape, but the farmer shot one of the activists in the ASS when he tried to escape. Lol!!
I can't remember what year it was, but once anyway, animal activists climbed over the fence in a fox farm. The farmer noticed, and picked a shotgun from his gun closet. The activists tried to escape, but the farmer shot one of the activists in the ASS when he tried to escape. Lol!!
