The Dink Network

Do anyone know the new Law the French Senate voted yesterday?

no baguettes after 9?

No idea what you're talking about.

At least I took a shot in the dark.

More like in the light.

I don't get it.

One good thing about the US is that freedom of speech is protected. I'm always surprised when I hear about restrictions on it in other Western countries, and I think, "How backward!" But it's backward in a paradoxical way, because its purpose is to promote the progressive policy of making everyone feel good. (Well, I'm sure there are other motivations too.)

Forcing I people to say there was a genocide against Armenians is not a good strategy, I mean I don't know if there were a genocide, I don't think there was, as I learned from history Ottoman's always been good to the people they conquared, they didn't forced their religion or culture. I mean this is wrong what do you think?

*confuzzled*
Ooookaaaayyy..?

"I mean I don't know if there were a genocide, I don't think there was, as I learned from history Ottoman's always been good to the people they conquared, they didn't forced their religion or culture. I mean this is wrong what do you think?"

Er, but what about this? It doesn't sound too good.

It was war while genocide isn't excusable it was always a factor.

Well, honestly I don't know much about the issue. But on the face of it, I don't like it one bit. If somebody's making a false claim, it's better to confront them directly. Trying to silence people makes it look like you have something to hide.

Daaamn Ottomans...

I don't say Ottoman's are angels, there were a one Ruler of Ottoman's I don't remember the name but he was a monster as they say it. He shoot people with arrows from his place for his enjoyment they say. But they are not all like that, I am not trying to say there was no genocide, but I think there was a not genocide, what I mean is: You shouldn't force people to say what you want. At all, some people say French did genocide in Algeria. I don't know what to beleive.

Don't forget the settlers in Australia and America!

Everyone seems to have forgotten about them.

Such a law may sound strange and contradictory to freedom of speech, and it is of course. However, it's not as strange as it seems. There are many countries where it is forbidden to deny the holocaust. It's not forbidden to not believe it, of course, but it is forbidden to make public statements saying that it didn't happen. This is because (according to the lawmakers) there is no doubt that it really did happen, but if some people shout hard and long enough that it didn't, it may actually become a danger to society.

Of course some politics is added with "no doubt", because it is a political choice to make this claim. Anyway, I don't think there is much doubt about the holocaust. There are enough landmarks which prove it.

With Armenia, I have no idea really. But what I see in the news is that everyone except Turkey seems to be very sure that it was indeed genocide, and Turkey keeps telling everyone that it's nonsense. Not only that, they go straight into attack mode, threatening with all sorts of sanctions. This makes their position very weak IMO. (But, as a side note, this is exactly what the French are now doing as well.)

Finally, I would like to give some advice to Killersong96: Turkey is very rigid in its foreign communications. Everyone must believe what they say. I expect them to behave the same when it comes to internal communication. So if despite their attempt to force their opinion on you, you still don't know what to believe, their opinion is quite likely wrong.

Also note that there may well be political motives: if Turkey would admit that there was a genocide, Armenia might want to start talks about transferring land or money to make up for it. It's to be expected that the Turkish politicians want to avoid that.

You guys believe in freedom of speech? BWHAHAHA!!

Seriously, every country will try to protect itself, or attack other to protect it's interests. Sadly, but truth matters little. France (Nicolas Sarcosi) don't care about Armenian civilians, only tries to raise his popularity. There are lot of Armenians in France. In the end, if Turkey wins this little 'verbal war', truth will be that there was no genocide, on the other hand, if France wins, it will be the opposite way. Finally, don't bother with politics.

To be fair, though, there are many unanswered questions still about the holocaust, not to speak of all the many other examples of genocide in history. The laws that make it illegal to question the way those events happened don't give any credibility, atleast in my eyes, to the politicians or movements that promote these kind of anti-free speech laws. Even scientists that try to do real research on these subjects tend to get harassed and thrown into jail for no real reason but politics - when it's exactly those independent scientists that we should be listening to - science and facts, not politics.

Like the old saying: if it's the truth, be it about the Turkey-armenians issue or holocaust, shouldn't it be able to stand by itself? Shouldn't it be able to stand up to critique if it's the truth?

I am not trying to protect Turkey, I love my country but the current rulers are Religious Fanatics. Like the one with mustache you see in TV if you watched anything about this Now this guys is an ass What I am trying to say is the freedom of speech is tresspased with this activity, if this was righti there would be no Turkey and Anatolia would be The Byzantine Empire still. Why then they don't want theri lands? Why American Indians don't have their land back. At all we should beleive politicians or history? Take your pick.

I'm against it btw.

@killersong96

At this momment, not to history or politics. Truth usually pops up after 500 years or so, when every aspect of the event is looked on with less emotions or interest.

if it's the truth, shouldn't it be able to stand by itself?

Sadly, no. Propaganda works really well. Any organization (be it a corporation or a government) with enough resources can usually convince the majority of people of whatever they like.

That's why it's so important that independent journalists have enough money. And even then they can usually be outshouted by the propaganda-machines of the rich.

Haha! Killersong, you should see this!

As a Turk said there, Turkisg singers are not the best examples of males here, I don't love Turkish music either, but saying Atatürk is looking like fabulous as he said, that crosses the line. It's like saying George Washington is fabulous to U.S.A people.

Lol, I know! Hehe! I disagreed with them.

Judging from the wikipedia link, your prime minister seems to think joining the EU would do much good for Turkey, while most europeans think it'd be a mistake.. I'm curious, how do you view EU? Do you think Turkey should be a part of it?

I would want to join, but EU is right, there are too much jobless here on Turkey and most EU countries got their own pool. With us being in EU, our jobless people can come to your countries too. So, I think EU is right.

P.S: Our Prime Minister sucks... And he is a Fanatic and Zealot... So on.

You guys would have to face a lot of descrimination there. I know a lot of Turk haters.

I think it would be a mistake for anyone to join EU.

I think the US should join the EU and we should build a land bridge across the Atlantic.

Why? Turks done anything bad?

Google ''The Ottomen turks'' and ''Turks and Armenians''. They dislike you guys mostly coz of your religion. They use the Ottomans as an exuse!

I heard Indian's dislike the muslism too. Is that true?

Very.

No. I'm Muslim. Maybe Hindu nationalists, which are a minority.