The Dink Network

I've read the message of IvanMZ, and asked DethLord what that FPS was about. Now I know it's frames per second, but I still don't have a clue how that can screw up colours.

So some questions...

1. I press alt + D to check FPS: in DinkEdit or in the game itself?

2. Why is true colour 'wrong' in a D-mod?

3. What has true colour got to do with FPS?

4. What has true colour and FPS have got to do with the DinkEngine?

5. What's the difference between true colour and the Dink Palette?

6. Do many graphics on the same screen have something to do with FPS?

7. I know that adding many graphics in the same screen slows down the loading speed, but if you do have as many as 99 sprites on the screen (placed with the editor) does it screw up all comps? Or only the slow ones?

8. Is there a difference in performance of a computer, of FPS, and of the DinkEngine when placing sprites on screen by using the editor or by using a script to place sprites on screen?

9. Even if you have a fast comp, does the Dink Engine limit the speed of loading when you have many graphics? So, what speed is more important: the DinkEngine or the computer?

10. Can you still not put any new graphics in (with Dink Palette applied of course) even if you have a fast comp, without making sure it's not true colour?

11. DethLord said the Dink Engine is capped around 60-70 FPS. So more FPS's is good? Or is the 28 FPS IvanMZ mentioned good? What IS good? I'd say more FPS is good, but IvanMZ says less FPS is good - well, compared to 60-70 FPS...

12. If I have a new graphic (from one or the other source) what do I have to do to make sure that it doesn't overload the Dink Engine - the FPS and colour part?

13. Is this a problem that only occurs on fast comps? I didn't encounter any colour problem when playing my D-mod (Dink Smallwood's Christmas, that is) and neither did SabreTrout. I don't know the specs of his comp, but mine is real old (300, 32MB, 4 MB videocard.)

14. Any other things I should now on this subject?

Thanks.

: 1. I press alt + D to check FPS: in DinkEdit or in the game itself?

In-game

: 2. Why is true colour 'wrong' in a D-mod?

It is bigger than 8-bit so your videocard need to load more

: 3. What has true colour got to do with FPS?

See 2.

: 4. What has true colour and FPS have got to do

with the DinkEngine?

Nothing, only, when you have 10~20 fps you will notice stutter in graphics.

: 5. What's the difference between true colour

and the Dink Palette?

True colour ( 32-bit ) is 24-bit with 8-bit alpha. So you can make very nice graphics and smoke effects. But the dink palette doesnt have the colours to do those things.

Dink palette is 8-bit ( 256 colours )

: 6. Do many graphics on the same screen have something to do with FPS?

Yes, more graphics > lower fps

: 7. I know that adding many graphics in the same screen slows down the loading speed, but if you do have as many as 99 sprites on the screen (placed with the editor) does it screw up all comps? Or only the slow ones?

Every computer. But the faster your computer is, the less you will notice it, so 99 sprites with a p1 will be hell

: 8. Is there a difference in performance of a computer, of FPS, and of the DinkEngine when placing sprites on screen by using the editor or by using a script to place sprites on screen?

doesnt matter, both do...

: 9. Even if you have a fast comp, does the Dink Engine limit the speed of loading when you have many graphics? So, what speed is more important: the DinkEngine or the computer?

Speed of the computer

: 10. Can you still not put any new graphics in (with Dink Palette applied of course) even if you have a fast comp, without making sure it's not true colour?

You can save bitmaps in 8-bit or 8-bit dink pallete. If you do that, then its not 32-bit truecolour

: 11. DethLord said the Dink Engine is capped around 60-70 FPS. So more FPS's is good? Or is the 28 FPS IvanMZ mentioned good? What IS good? I'd say more FPS is good, but IvanMZ says less FPS is good - well, compared to 60-70 FPS...

The human eye can only see 30~60 FPS ( some people can even notice 70 fps )

The more fps you get, the faster the animations will be. If you want more fps, you can disable vsync.

: 12. If I have a new graphic (from one or the other source) what do I have to do to make sure that it doesn't overload the Dink Engine - the FPS and colour part?

Just save it as a 8-bit or 8-bit dink palette

: 13. Is this a problem that only occurs on fast comps? I didn't encounter any colour problem when playing my D-mod (Dink Smallwood's Christmas, that is) and neither did SabreTrout. I don't know the specs of his comp, but mine is real old (300, 32MB, 4 MB videocard.)

If you have 32-bit textures, then dink will auto. change it into 8-bit when they are loaded. It takes more time.

: 14. Any other things I should now on this subject?

Dont ask any questions anymore, please

: Thanks.

: 1. I press alt + D to check FPS: in DinkEdit or in the game itself?

In the game, but if the game runs bad in Debug mode, the FPS will be much lower than when you do NOT use that mode.

: 2. Why is true colour 'wrong' in a D-mod?

- Because the Dink engine isn't as good as for example PaintShop Pro at finding the most similar colors found in the Dink palette (the Dink engine doesn't show true color, it just tries to change all the colors to compatible ones).

- Because the files are bigger and "eat" more memory and harddisk space, and makes the download bigger.

: 3. What has true colour got to do with FPS?

Err... see above.

: 4. What has true colour and FPS have got to do with the DinkEngine?

Err... se above again.

: 5. What's the difference between true colour and the Dink Palette?

"True color" is the same as 32bit color (right?), which means more than 4'000'000'000 different colors, while the Dink palette only had 256 colors.

: 6. Do many graphics on the same screen have something to do with FPS?

Yeah.. they use memory and such.

: 7. I know that adding many graphics in the same screen slows down the loading speed, but if you do have as many as 99 sprites on the screen (placed with the editor) does it screw up all comps? Or only the slow ones?

I don't know, but i suppose it slows down ALL computers.

: 8. Is there a difference in performance of a computer, of FPS, and of the DinkEngine when placing sprites on screen by using the editor or by using a script to place sprites on screen?

Hmmmm...

: 9. Even if you have a fast comp, does the Dink Engine limit the speed of loading when you have many graphics? So, what speed is more important: the DinkEngine or the computer?

I don't know...

: 10. Can you still not put any new graphics in (with Dink Palette applied of course) even if you have a fast comp, without making sure it's not true colour?

Sorry, i don't understand the question.

: 11. DethLord said the Dink Engine is capped around 60-70 FPS. So more FPS's is good? Or is the 28 FPS IvanMZ mentioned good? What IS good? I'd say more FPS is good, but IvanMZ says less FPS is good - well, compared to 60-70 FPS...

MORE FPS is good. When IvanMZ wrote "incredible", he sort of meant it in the "incredibly bad" way.

: 12. If I have a new graphic (from one or the other source) what do I have to do to make sure that it doesn't overload the Dink Engine - the FPS and colour part?

Apply the Dink palette to it... (then it won't be "True color" anymore)

: 13. Is this a problem that only occurs on fast comps? I didn't encounter any colour problem when playing my D-mod (Dink Smallwood's Christmas, that is) and neither did SabreTrout. I don't know the specs of his comp, but mine is real old (300, 32MB, 4 MB videocard.)

I think you have the same "problem" on all comps... 28 FPS doesn't look THAT bad, really. it just isn't as good as 60-70.

: 14. Any other things I should now on this subject?

No.

: Thanks.

No problem.

PS: I didn't have answers to all your questions, and i'm not 100% sure on all of them either. Please correct me if i am wrong at any point, you stupid experts like Paul.

: I've read the message of IvanMZ, and asked DethLord what that FPS was about. Now I know it's frames per second, but I still don't have a clue how that can screw up colours.

: So some questions...

: 1. I press alt + D to check FPS: in DinkEdit or in the game itself?

Use the Dink Engine

: 2. Why is true colour 'wrong' in a D-mod?

Dink uses 8 bit (because it uses less memory back in the day). 640x480x8 = 2.5 meg video card, 640x480x24 = 7.5 meg viedo card. See?

: 3. What has true colour got to do with FPS?

On now day computers, you would see no diffrece (but it really depends on your video card processor), back in dink's day, it showed a tad bit of a slow down.

: 4. What has true colour and FPS have got to do with the DinkEngine?

Uhh, FPS is how many times a game can 'draw the screen' per second. So dink's fps (lets say 33) is drawing all the sprites (33) times per second. True color isn't supported in dink, so all the graphics have to be in the 8-bit dink palette.

: 5. What's the difference between true colour and the Dink Palette?

True color supports 16 million colors, dink palette and all palettes support 256 colors.

: 6. Do many graphics on the same screen have something to do with FPS?

The more graphics, the more it has to draw per second. If you have 1 tree compared to 100, it's going to draw a 100 times faster. But keep in mind this. The bigger the sprites, the slower it will draw. You could have 100 flowers and not see too muhc of a diffrence, but you add 100 houses, you may get 2 FPS.

: 7. I know that adding many graphics in the same screen slows down the loading speed, but if you do have as many as 99 sprites on the screen (placed with the editor) does it screw up all comps? Or only the slow ones?

Well, hard question, even fast computer with a slow video card, or one with less that 4 megs of memory on it will be slow, but it all depends on the sprites you place (see above).

: 8. Is there a difference in performance of a computer, of FPS, and of the DinkEngine when placing sprites on screen by using the editor or by using a script to place sprites on screen?

I would think not, but I tested this, and it seems to work a tad (not by very much) bit faster with sprite ran by scripts. Either way it does matter, they will both slow it down. If you don't go over 50 sprites per screen, you shouldn't have a problem.

: 9. Even if you have a fast comp, does the Dink Engine limit the speed of loading when you have many graphics? So, what speed is more important: the DinkEngine or the computer?

Depends what you mean by loading. If you are talking about the begining, the you computer being slower will slow it down, but there are several other things too. With windows XP, it has some type of buffer system, redink pointed out to me that if you were to load a d-mod, then load it again, it will load 10 times faster. This also happens in game. Your FPS starts out kinda slow and then kicks up.

: 10. Can you still not put any new graphics in (with Dink Palette applied of course) even if you have a fast comp, without making sure it's not true colour?

Dink only supports 8 bit fomat. You can add 32 bit graphics if you wish, but in run time, that sprites colors will be converted to 8-bit 'nearest color matching' which you don't want.

: 11. DethLord said the Dink Engine is capped around 60-70 FPS. So more FPS's is good? Or is the 28 FPS IvanMZ mentioned good? What IS good? I'd say more FPS is good, but IvanMZ says less FPS is good - well, compared to 60-70 FPS...

Dethlord is a fool. Dink caps around 100 FPS in the classic dink game for me. You shouldn't be under 30 FPS otherwise you may have crappy game play, but FPS depends on the computer.

: 12. If I have a new graphic (from one or the other source) what do I have to do to make sure that it doesn't overload the Dink Engine - the FPS and colour part?

Just apply the dink palette to it thats all. The dink engine is rather flexable.

: 13. Is this a problem that only occurs on fast comps? I didn't encounter any colour problem when playing my D-mod (Dink Smallwood's Christmas, that is) and neither did SabreTrout. I don't know the specs of his comp, but mine is real old (300, 32MB, 4 MB videocard.)

Well, kinda. On your computer you could play dinkanoid very well, on mine the ball moves too fast to keep up with. You can work around that with wait()

: 14. Any other things I should now on this subject?

Yeah, you are worring too much.

: Thanks.

Bottom Line: FPS do not matter. Most animations are hard-coded at 10 or 13 FPS, so you will not really notice any problems there.

FPS is a useful way of measuring how 3d games and the like work... it isn't very useful for 2d games (like Dink) at all.

The only thing you might notice with low 'FPS' is while walking around, it will stutter a bit... so if you test it, and notice no stuttering, you're fine. If there is some stuttering, and you don't want it, reduce the number of sprites and it should clear up (unless you're using a really complex script).

: I've read the message of IvanMZ, and asked DethLord what that FPS was about. Now I know it's frames per second, but I still don't have a clue how that can screw up colours.

: So some questions...

***********************************************

2. Why is true colour 'wrong' in a D-mod?

***********************************************

I have read that Dukie, in an interview with Seth,

asked him to do a modification to the Dink Engine,

to include bitmaps in True Color. Originally,

the Dink Engine was not designed to include

True Color bitmaps [so all of this is Dukie's fault ].

***********************************************

5. What's the difference between true colour

and the Dink Palette?

***********************************************

True Color images can have 16.000.000 colors and need 3 times more memory.

The Dink Palette are 256 colors specially choosen to do fast drawing

with little difference in the quality of images.

***********************************************

6. Do many graphics on the same screen have

something to do with FPS?

***********************************************

With the "frames per second" of the screen, in

other words, "refresh rate".

By example, a tree in Dink Smallwood is static,

it is not an animation, so it do not have FPS,

but it is drawn 60 times in a second: 60 Hz.

A duck walking is an animation, maybe 15 FPS.

Each frame is drawn 4 times in a second (60÷15=4),

so the entire animation has 60 Hz.

The water magic of Dink. We will suppose it has

20 FPS, then every frame is drawn

3 times in a second: 3 Hz, 60 Hz the entire animation.

An animation of only 1 FPS is drawn 60 times in a second,

60 Hz.

A tree: 0 FPS, 60 Hz.

A duck: 15 FPS, 4 Hz every frame (60 Hz entire animation).

Water magic: 20 FPS, 3 Hz every frame (60 Hz entire animation).

An animation: 1 FPS, 60 Hz every frame.

If there are much sprites, it takes much

time to the processor to finish all calculations, and

if it is incapable of draw 60 times in a second, then

it skips every certain time (50 Hz, 40 Hz, 28 Hz, etc.).

********************************************

8. Is there a difference in performance

of a computer, of FPS, and of the DinkEngine

when placing sprites on screen by using the

editor or by using a script

to place sprites on screen?

********************************************

I think that read the binary values directly

from the "DAT" file is faster than recognize

the text in a "C" file.

***********************************************

11. DethLord said the Dink Engine is capped

around 60-70 FPS. So more FPS's is good?

Or is the 28 FPS IvanMZ mentioned good?

What IS good? I'd say more FPS is good,

but IvanMZ says less FPS is good - well,

compared to 60-70 FPS...

***********************************************

Oh, not FPS, Hz. DethLord was indicating the

"animation of the screen".

60 Hz is the correct refresh rate. If it is

less, then it is less good.

***********************************************

12. If I have a new graphic (from one or the other source)

what do I have to do to make sure that it

doesn't overload the Dink Engine - the FPS and colour part?

***********************************************

If possible, not much big (like 640x480 pixels)

and with 256 colors and one common palette,

of course.

***********************************************

13. Is this a problem that only occurs on fast comps?

I didn't encounter any colour problem when playing

my D-mod (Dink Smallwood's Christmas, that is) and

neither did SabreTrout. I don't know the specs of

his comp, but mine is real old (300, 32MB, 4 MB videocard.)

***********************************************

Your computer is perfect to play Dink.

it is old, but it does not mean it is useless.

Maybe with new versions of Windows (98, 2000, etc)

in fast computers,

Dink runs bad. And Dink is not the only.

***********************************************

14. Any other things I should now on this subject?

***********************************************

I think not.

Well, I might worry too much, and I might be asking too many questions, but I sure as heck learned something from it!

: ***********************************************

: 6. Do many graphics on the same screen have

: something to do with FPS?

: ***********************************************

: With the "frames per second" of the screen, in

: other words, "refresh rate".

: By example, a tree in Dink Smallwood is static,

: it is not an animation, so it do not have FPS,

: but it is drawn 60 times in a second: 60 Hz.

: A duck walking is an animation, maybe 15 FPS.

: Each frame is drawn 4 times in a second (60÷15=4),

: so the entire animation has 60 Hz.

: The water magic of Dink. We will suppose it has

: 20 FPS, then every frame is drawn

: 3 times in a second: 3 Hz, 60 Hz the entire animation.

: An animation of only 1 FPS is drawn 60 times in a second,

: 60 Hz.

: A tree:        0 FPS, 60 Hz.

: A duck:       15 FPS,  4 Hz every frame (60 Hz entire animation).

: Water magic:  20 FPS,  3 Hz every frame (60 Hz entire animation).

: An animation:  1 FPS, 60 Hz every frame.

: If there are much sprites, it takes much

: time to the processor to finish all calculations, and

: if it is incapable of draw 60 times in a second, then

: it skips every certain time (50 Hz, 40 Hz, 28 Hz, etc.).

That is just so wrong. The refresh-rate of the screen is constant, which means that if you set it to 60 Hz, it refreshes at a rate of 60 times a second, no matter what information is sent to it from the computer.

: ***********************************************

: 11. DethLord said the Dink Engine is capped

: around 60-70 FPS. So more FPS's is good?

: Or is the 28 FPS IvanMZ mentioned good?

: What IS good? I'd say more FPS is good,

: but IvanMZ says less FPS is good - well,

: compared to 60-70 FPS...

: ***********************************************

: Oh, not FPS, Hz. DethLord was indicating the

: "animation of the screen".

: 60 Hz is the correct refresh rate. If it is

: less, then it is less good.

: ***********************************************

No. The speed at which something animates at screen is not relevant to the refresh rate. At least not until the fps gets higher than the Hz. Cause think of it, if something refreshes at 60 times per second, then you have to have more than 60 fps to "lose" anything of the animation, which is still quite illogical.. eh, what the heck, all I know is that the refresh-rate of the screen is constant, and that it is the fps that decides how smooth an animation runs.

: : ***********************************************

: : 6. Do many graphics on the same screen have

: : something to do with FPS?

: : ***********************************************

: : With the "frames per second" of the screen, in

: : other words, "refresh rate".

: : By example, a tree in Dink Smallwood is static,

: : it is not an animation, so it do not have FPS,

: : but it is drawn 60 times in a second: 60 Hz.

: : A duck walking is an animation, maybe 15 FPS.

: : Each frame is drawn 4 times in a second (60÷15=4),

: : so the entire animation has 60 Hz.

: : The water magic of Dink. We will suppose it has

: : 20 FPS, then every frame is drawn

: : 3 times in a second: 3 Hz, 60 Hz the entire animation.

: : An animation of only 1 FPS is drawn 60 times in a second,

: : 60 Hz.

: : A tree:        0 FPS, 60 Hz.

: : A duck:       15 FPS,  4 Hz every frame (60 Hz entire animation).

: : Water magic:  20 FPS,  3 Hz every frame (60 Hz entire animation).

: : An animation:  1 FPS, 60 Hz every frame.

: : If there are much sprites, it takes much

: : time to the processor to finish all calculations, and

: : if it is incapable of draw 60 times in a second, then

: : it skips every certain time (50 Hz, 40 Hz, 28 Hz, etc.).

: That is just so wrong. The refresh-rate of the screen is constant, which means that if you set it to 60 Hz, it refreshes at a rate of 60 times a second, no matter what information is sent to it from the computer.

: : ***********************************************

: : 11. DethLord said the Dink Engine is capped

: : around 60-70 FPS. So more FPS's is good?

: : Or is the 28 FPS IvanMZ mentioned good?

: : What IS good? I'd say more FPS is good,

: : but IvanMZ says less FPS is good - well,

: : compared to 60-70 FPS...

: : ***********************************************

: : Oh, not FPS, Hz. DethLord was indicating the

: : "animation of the screen".

: : 60 Hz is the correct refresh rate. If it is

: : less, then it is less good.

: : ***********************************************

: No. The speed at which something animates at screen is not relevant to the refresh rate. At least not until the fps gets higher than the Hz. Cause think of it, if something refreshes at 60 times per second, then you have to have more than 60 fps to "lose" anything of the animation, which is still quite illogical.. eh, what the heck, all I know is that the refresh-rate of the screen is constant, and that it is the fps that decides how smooth an animation runs.

Makes sense. Thanks.

The frequency of drawing that you are talking

about is of the monitor, nothing to do with

this topic.

I am talking of the frequency of drawing the

images over the screen.

If an animation have a speed of 20 FPS, then

you need sufficient processor speed to draw

20 images per second. If you not have

sufficient speed, then two things can occur:

1.- Continue drawing 20 images, no matter what

time it takes (like 20 frames per 2 seconds).

With this choice, you have 10 FPS and

10 images per second visibles, so it are 10 Hz.

2.- Skip some frames, like drawing the frames

1, 3, 5, 7, ... 15, 17 and 19.

With this choice, you have 20 FPS, but

10 images per second visibles, and other 10

no visibles, 10 Hz.

(The Dink engine uses both methods)

Now imagine you have an animation of 60 FPS,

but it is in full screen, and the speed of the processor is capable of only draw one image per second. You got 60 FPS but only 1 Hz.

You will see the same image, always.

But, according to you, only the FPS matters.

: The human eye can only see 30~60 FPS ( some people can even notice 70 fps )

for reference, "normal" movie theatres play movies at 24 FPS. DVCD's are waayy better quality, but you have to look for it. IMHO, for a game (cutscene that is), anything over 30FPS, and you're wasting resources. there