Why you shouldnt play Oblivion: Elder Scrolls 4
Yes I know its advertised everywhere. Yes I know the graphics have never been better and have set a benchmark.
However there is a lot about the game (I hear from friends) thats going to stop me from buying it and I wanted to warn you all.
-You need a top of the line system to play it on its lowest settings. Yes you heard me LOWEST!
-Dialogue has been destroyed. There arent many dialogue options and what there are just show you different sets of words...no real plot development.
-Scaled enemies. Common forest thieves wear ultra rare deadric armor if your level 20.
-Terrible AI.
Here is an example of the latter;
Who's fighting who?
I couldnt play it anyway since I bought the cheapest PC Dell offered.
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
However there is a lot about the game (I hear from friends) thats going to stop me from buying it and I wanted to warn you all.
-You need a top of the line system to play it on its lowest settings. Yes you heard me LOWEST!
-Dialogue has been destroyed. There arent many dialogue options and what there are just show you different sets of words...no real plot development.
-Scaled enemies. Common forest thieves wear ultra rare deadric armor if your level 20.
-Terrible AI.
Here is an example of the latter;
Who's fighting who?
I couldnt play it anyway since I bought the cheapest PC Dell offered.
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
Dude, you're just bitter. 
-You need a top of the line system to play it on its lowest settings. Yes you heard me LOWEST!
It's not really THAT bad, my computer barely meets the system requirements and the game runs fine without much lag, and it's not on the lowest settings.
-Dialogue has been destroyed. There arent many dialogue options and what there are just show you different sets of words...no real plot development.
The dialogue isn't great, but at least it's better than in Morrowind. I wish they'd used more voice actors though.
-Scaled enemies. Common forest thieves wear ultra rare deadric armor if your level 20.
Of the ones you listed this is the only serious problem- coupled with the terrible levelup system (same as Morrowind) you gotta be careful with your levelups or you'll drop behind and lose to everyone.
-Terrible AI.
No.
The truth is there are many problems with the game indeed, but the pros easily outweight those. The game's just a lot of fun- it's easily one of the best games I've played in a while, and hands down better than Morrowind.
-You need a top of the line system to play it on its lowest settings. Yes you heard me LOWEST!
It's not really THAT bad, my computer barely meets the system requirements and the game runs fine without much lag, and it's not on the lowest settings.
-Dialogue has been destroyed. There arent many dialogue options and what there are just show you different sets of words...no real plot development.
The dialogue isn't great, but at least it's better than in Morrowind. I wish they'd used more voice actors though.
-Scaled enemies. Common forest thieves wear ultra rare deadric armor if your level 20.
Of the ones you listed this is the only serious problem- coupled with the terrible levelup system (same as Morrowind) you gotta be careful with your levelups or you'll drop behind and lose to everyone.
-Terrible AI.
No.
The truth is there are many problems with the game indeed, but the pros easily outweight those. The game's just a lot of fun- it's easily one of the best games I've played in a while, and hands down better than Morrowind.
Well, you do know that if you *truely* want to get the game to run, you can edit the ini settings file even further down than what the program normally allows you to. You can edit it such that oblivion looks worse than daggerfall.
Oh Oh Oh! Im going to do what scrather did! ^^
-You need a top of the line system to play it on its lowest settings. Yes you heard me LOWEST!
I have a crap computer in comparison to what those requirements say, and I run it no lag on medium. I'd say your card just does have Pixcel Shader on it..
-Dialogue has been destroyed. There arent many dialogue options and what there are just show you different sets of words...no real plot development.
I kinda hear what your saying, but in saying that its the best seen so far, so what if on random strangers you can only hear about rumours. At least its all Voice Acted even if not that well done.
-Scaled enemies. Common forest thieves wear ultra rare deadric armor if your level 20.
Even though it may be less realistic it still makes that game more fun, in morrowind there was a point when you just couldnt do ANYTHING anymore, by the time I got to him I could beat Dagoth Er VERY VERY easily, and that wasnt to fun
-Terrible AI.
Not really, its no that ban
-You need a top of the line system to play it on its lowest settings. Yes you heard me LOWEST!
I have a crap computer in comparison to what those requirements say, and I run it no lag on medium. I'd say your card just does have Pixcel Shader on it..
-Dialogue has been destroyed. There arent many dialogue options and what there are just show you different sets of words...no real plot development.
I kinda hear what your saying, but in saying that its the best seen so far, so what if on random strangers you can only hear about rumours. At least its all Voice Acted even if not that well done.
-Scaled enemies. Common forest thieves wear ultra rare deadric armor if your level 20.
Even though it may be less realistic it still makes that game more fun, in morrowind there was a point when you just couldnt do ANYTHING anymore, by the time I got to him I could beat Dagoth Er VERY VERY easily, and that wasnt to fun
-Terrible AI.
Not really, its no that ban
By the way who alters the way threads appear when their mentioned on the home page of the forum? I saw this thread there as updated, but it said "Oblivion rocks!".
I bet its Redink1 and his hidden sense of humor.
Oh and yes I am bitter. I've thought of most recent "RPG's" as glorified action/adventure games in fantasy settings with no REAL role-play.
Thats a huge debate though.
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
I bet its Redink1 and his hidden sense of humor.
Oh and yes I am bitter. I've thought of most recent "RPG's" as glorified action/adventure games in fantasy settings with no REAL role-play.
Thats a huge debate though.
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
Well, I'm not sure what to say, I know I currently don't have a computer capable of playing it. I remember when Morrowind came out, I just barely met the specs for it and it ran quite well, much faster than computers with supposedly superior capabilities.
I know a good number of people who disliked Morrowind, and a lot who loved it. I loved it, so I'm not really convinced that buying Oblivion would be bad.
I know a good number of people who disliked Morrowind, and a lot who loved it. I loved it, so I'm not really convinced that buying Oblivion would be bad.
"Most" I assume that means you think there are some exceptions, VaultDweller?
What is an RPG, in your view? I consider the Square games as prototypical RPGs, but I'm not sure if anyone else defines the genre in that manner.
I'd agree. With the exception of Vagrant Story, however. But then that is (according to SquareSoft an adevture/rpg.
My favourite Ffs are (in order): FFX, FFVII, FX-2, FFIX, and FFVI. However, I'm expecting FFXII, when it comes out here in August, to knock FFX of it's top slot.
My lest favourite FF is FFVIII.
My favourite Ffs are (in order): FFX, FFVII, FX-2, FFIX, and FFVI. However, I'm expecting FFXII, when it comes out here in August, to knock FFX of it's top slot.
My lest favourite FF is FFVIII.
Umm... good for you. Have a cookie.
"By the way who alters the way threads appear when their mentioned on the home page of the forum? I saw this thread there as updated, but it said "Oblivion rocks!".
I bet its Redink1 and his hidden sense of humor."
Actually, if you haven't noticed, each post has its own subject... if you leave it unmodified, it will simply read "Re: (insert subject of post being replied to here)". SirCabbage chose to replace the subject with something along the lines of "Oblivion Rocks!," and if that's the most recent post made in the off-topic forum, then that's the subject that will appear on the forum list page.
I bet its Redink1 and his hidden sense of humor."
Actually, if you haven't noticed, each post has its own subject... if you leave it unmodified, it will simply read "Re: (insert subject of post being replied to here)". SirCabbage chose to replace the subject with something along the lines of "Oblivion Rocks!," and if that's the most recent post made in the off-topic forum, then that's the subject that will appear on the forum list page.
Ok I hope this doesnt start a flame war or make people hate me, but in an RPG the most important feature is "linearity".
That is whether the plot and story follow a line. A story that leads you from point A to point B without any options on what to do is "linear". An example is not having choices in dialogue. A story that lets you go from point A to point C by skipping areas or not choosing to do certain things is "non-linear". An example is choosing to be evil when you could have been good and getting different quests/endings/character reactions.
Consider this...before there were computers or consoles to play RPG's on what we had were tabletop RPG's most notably back then and now being D&D. Thing about D&D is that your actions, as in morality, siding with factions, and making allies, was determined solely by you and set into motion by the imagination of the DM.
Thing is no matter what you choose you FEEL responsible in that whatever transpires was not only caused by you, but you feel its effect when something happens. In linear games this doesnt happen. If you're forced to make a specific decision regardless of your ideals then what happens is irrelevant...its like watching a movie where your completely uninvolved. If you made the choice the idea that your in charge makes it so much more IMMERSIVE to the game that you cant help, but enjoy it a lot more.
Thats why there called "ROLE-PLAYING" games. You PLAY the role. If theres no decision making its just an action/adventure/puzzle game in a fantasy world...thats it.
One notable difference is between consoles and PC or between American and Japanese games. Consoler RPG's are almost always super-linear and PC RPG's used to be all non-linear though there are hardly any now that hack-and-slash "RPG's" have mostly replaced them.
If you want an example of what I think a REAL RPG is that I know Dinker's will understand I would suggest "Cloud Castle 2: Scarab", "Initiation", or "The Stone of Balance" and "Pilgrim's Quest". Each one has multiple ways to complete quests that lead to different interesting responses from NPC's that are often inclined toward good or evil.
As for other games the Star Ocean series of console games is somewhat non-linear though not much.
There's much better options on PC. Some recent games that you can still get ahold of that are REAL RPG's are "Knights of the Old Republic", "Vampire: The Masquerade", and "Gothic 2". There are dozens more counting old games though I doubt you'd find them.
Wow...honestly guys I'm glad I wrote that. I dont mean to sound obnoxious or like some elitist donkey, but I really dislike how so many "RPG's" are just hack-and-slash action games or actually have a great stories, but dont involve the players input except in winning or losing in combat.
I'll admmit there are some awesome linear RPG's. I LOVED FF6 and some of the other ones are pretty good. Sadly though you only really feel great if the story is superb since the immersion is low being so linear and rigid.
I promise I still respect and like you all even if you disagree. I think I was just exposed to a dying genre and am saddened at looking at what something use to be...
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
That is whether the plot and story follow a line. A story that leads you from point A to point B without any options on what to do is "linear". An example is not having choices in dialogue. A story that lets you go from point A to point C by skipping areas or not choosing to do certain things is "non-linear". An example is choosing to be evil when you could have been good and getting different quests/endings/character reactions.
Consider this...before there were computers or consoles to play RPG's on what we had were tabletop RPG's most notably back then and now being D&D. Thing about D&D is that your actions, as in morality, siding with factions, and making allies, was determined solely by you and set into motion by the imagination of the DM.
Thing is no matter what you choose you FEEL responsible in that whatever transpires was not only caused by you, but you feel its effect when something happens. In linear games this doesnt happen. If you're forced to make a specific decision regardless of your ideals then what happens is irrelevant...its like watching a movie where your completely uninvolved. If you made the choice the idea that your in charge makes it so much more IMMERSIVE to the game that you cant help, but enjoy it a lot more.
Thats why there called "ROLE-PLAYING" games. You PLAY the role. If theres no decision making its just an action/adventure/puzzle game in a fantasy world...thats it.
One notable difference is between consoles and PC or between American and Japanese games. Consoler RPG's are almost always super-linear and PC RPG's used to be all non-linear though there are hardly any now that hack-and-slash "RPG's" have mostly replaced them.
If you want an example of what I think a REAL RPG is that I know Dinker's will understand I would suggest "Cloud Castle 2: Scarab", "Initiation", or "The Stone of Balance" and "Pilgrim's Quest". Each one has multiple ways to complete quests that lead to different interesting responses from NPC's that are often inclined toward good or evil.
As for other games the Star Ocean series of console games is somewhat non-linear though not much.
There's much better options on PC. Some recent games that you can still get ahold of that are REAL RPG's are "Knights of the Old Republic", "Vampire: The Masquerade", and "Gothic 2". There are dozens more counting old games though I doubt you'd find them.
Wow...honestly guys I'm glad I wrote that. I dont mean to sound obnoxious or like some elitist donkey, but I really dislike how so many "RPG's" are just hack-and-slash action games or actually have a great stories, but dont involve the players input except in winning or losing in combat.
I'll admmit there are some awesome linear RPG's. I LOVED FF6 and some of the other ones are pretty good. Sadly though you only really feel great if the story is superb since the immersion is low being so linear and rigid.
I promise I still respect and like you all even if you disagree. I think I was just exposed to a dying genre and am saddened at looking at what something use to be...
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
Surprisingly, non-linear RPGs are called non-linear RPGs and linear RPGs are called linear RPGs. Whether you view the latter as REAL RPGs or not is up to you, but the general definiton includes both regardless of that.
As for these recent RPGs being more like hack-and-slash action games than RPGs... I'd have to agree they've gone more into that direction, but still, there's so much role playing elements in them just calling them hack-and-slash action games isn't right. They're both. Hack-and-slash RPGs!
As for these recent RPGs being more like hack-and-slash action games than RPGs... I'd have to agree they've gone more into that direction, but still, there's so much role playing elements in them just calling them hack-and-slash action games isn't right. They're both. Hack-and-slash RPGs!
As for other games the Star Ocean series of console games is somewhat non-linear though not much.
Final Fantasy X-2 is very non-linear, though Final Fantasy X is the most linear Final Fantasy (not until two thirds of the way through the game do you get any real choice where to go and what to do). Until then it's really only a few daliogue choices and what sub-areas to explore.
Oh, and i agree with your points on what RPGs are, though I'd like to add this: that they all have either a level up system or some other way of improving a set of stats (a classic example of this is Final Fantasy 2).
Final Fantasy X-2 is very non-linear, though Final Fantasy X is the most linear Final Fantasy (not until two thirds of the way through the game do you get any real choice where to go and what to do). Until then it's really only a few daliogue choices and what sub-areas to explore.
Oh, and i agree with your points on what RPGs are, though I'd like to add this: that they all have either a level up system or some other way of improving a set of stats (a classic example of this is Final Fantasy 2).
Surprisingly, non-linear RPGs are called non-linear RPGs and linear RPGs are called linear RPGs. Whether you view the latter as REAL RPGs or not is up to you, but the general definiton includes both regardless of that.
As for these recent RPGs being more like hack-and-slash action games than RPGs... I'd have to agree they've gone more into that direction, but still, there's so much role playing elements in them just calling them hack-and-slash action games isn't right. They're both. Hack-and-slash RPGs!
I agree with all of that, though the official term, if you're interested, is action/RPG not hack-and-slash RPG. Sorry if that come across wrong. That was simply an attempt to provide the official name to anyone that is interested.
You are right... in general the Final Fantasy games are liner (especially Final Fantasy X)... or at least until the latter stages, where they get a lot thes linear. I say "in general", because as I have already stated, Final Fantasy X-2 is extremely non-linear. However, I'm willing to forgive the Final Fantasy games for this, because to me story and characters comes before anything else... and the Final Fantasy games have very good stories and characters.
Well, that's my ten cents worth...
As for these recent RPGs being more like hack-and-slash action games than RPGs... I'd have to agree they've gone more into that direction, but still, there's so much role playing elements in them just calling them hack-and-slash action games isn't right. They're both. Hack-and-slash RPGs!
I agree with all of that, though the official term, if you're interested, is action/RPG not hack-and-slash RPG. Sorry if that come across wrong. That was simply an attempt to provide the official name to anyone that is interested.
You are right... in general the Final Fantasy games are liner (especially Final Fantasy X)... or at least until the latter stages, where they get a lot thes linear. I say "in general", because as I have already stated, Final Fantasy X-2 is extremely non-linear. However, I'm willing to forgive the Final Fantasy games for this, because to me story and characters comes before anything else... and the Final Fantasy games have very good stories and characters.
Well, that's my ten cents worth...
"I agree with all of that, though the official term, if you're interested, is action/RPG not hack-and-slash RPG. Sorry if that come across wrong. That was simply an attempt to provide the official name to anyone that is interested."
I'm curious, who sets the "official" standard?
I'm curious, who sets the "official" standard?
Actually, Gothic 2 and Vampire: Bloodlines would generally be considered Action/RPGs, so your definition doesn't really fit. I believe what he means by "hack-and-slash" is crap like Diablo and its ilk, which I, too, have a hard time acknowledging as actual RPGs.
Even though it may be less realistic it still makes that game more fun, in morrowind there was a point when you just couldnt do ANYTHING anymore, by the time I got to him I could beat Dagoth Er VERY VERY easily, and that wasnt to fun
Although, playing high-level mods with the difficulty turned all the way up could still provide a challenge, albeit an occationally ridiculous one.
Although, playing high-level mods with the difficulty turned all the way up could still provide a challenge, albeit an occationally ridiculous one.
I'm curious, who sets the "official" standard?
The gaming industry of course.
The gaming industry of course.
I wouldn't call Diablo "crap". I actually quite like it.
I suppose it all depends on whether or not you consider Rogue to be the archetypal RPG, really.
No that's just marketing. Parents are more willing to buy an Action/RPG than a hack-and-slash RPG.
Rogue I don't have... NetHack is a Rogue-like game, though. I like it 
Doesn't "action" denote form and "hack & slash" content? You can't have an action turn-based game, for example, but you can have a hack & slash turn based game.
So then we could have an action hack-and-slash RPG? Neat
Oh wait... we have the Diablo series. They're pretty much action hack-and-slash already.
Oh wait... we have the Diablo series. They're pretty much action hack-and-slash already.
Hack and slash is simply a term that customers came up with. It was never used by the gaming industry until then. So in short, your cynical attitude of it being a marketing thing is incorrect. This is often the case with cynicism, which is why I hate it so much.
Speaking of which... I quite like the PS2 game Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance.
I find cynics funny most of the time because they pervert what should be the most humble of philosophical stances into the most arrogant by claiming that absolutely everything is crap. A good example of this is the "your band sucks" article on somethingawful, where "Dr." Thorpe explains how all music is worthless (obviously the author is aware of the irony.)
Nah, hack-and-slash originates from table-top rpgs like D&D. From there it got transferred to computer rpgs.
And to nag on about it: Hasn't it occured to you that the gaming industry didn't use the term hack-and-slash before the customers came up with it? Wonder why not? They couldn't come up with it, or were they just afraid because it sounds too brainless for their games? After the "until then", I still don't see the term hack-and-slash on game boxes. Really, you didn't disprove my cynical attitude. If anything, you only enstrengthen it. Yes that was exaggerated, don't take it too seriously. I hope you see where the hole in your reasoning of me being wrong is.
It's not the marketing thing I have a problem with, I just don't believe in "official genre-isation" in general. Division between rpg, shooter, platformgame, etc. is nice (although the difference between these becomes smaller with every game coming out), but I doubt those names are thought of by the industry. I think the genre of a game should be determined by the gamers, not by the industry. Of course terms as rpg/shooter/platformer are way too obvious to miss, but subgenres of these should be left to the gamer. More so with newer games that tend to mix several genres into one game.
And to nag on about it: Hasn't it occured to you that the gaming industry didn't use the term hack-and-slash before the customers came up with it? Wonder why not? They couldn't come up with it, or were they just afraid because it sounds too brainless for their games? After the "until then", I still don't see the term hack-and-slash on game boxes. Really, you didn't disprove my cynical attitude. If anything, you only enstrengthen it. Yes that was exaggerated, don't take it too seriously. I hope you see where the hole in your reasoning of me being wrong is.
It's not the marketing thing I have a problem with, I just don't believe in "official genre-isation" in general. Division between rpg, shooter, platformgame, etc. is nice (although the difference between these becomes smaller with every game coming out), but I doubt those names are thought of by the industry. I think the genre of a game should be determined by the gamers, not by the industry. Of course terms as rpg/shooter/platformer are way too obvious to miss, but subgenres of these should be left to the gamer. More so with newer games that tend to mix several genres into one game.
Clicking a mouse over and over on a sprite until it dies is crap, objectively speaking.
No it didn't help me "see where the hole in your reasoning of me being wrong is". Because I still think I'm right. In fact I think your last comment helped strengthen mine.
Also... the reason for "official" terms is so that we are all speaking the same "language". Otherwise we'd be talking different "languages"... that'd require translations a lot of the time.
Also by "gaming industry" I didn't just mean companies such as SquareSof or Electronic Arts. In addition to them, I meant gaming magazines and websites. And the magazine writers are gamers... so your desire to gave gamers decide is meet to some extent. Besides I think that in general most gamers would be the wrong sort of person to hand such decisions to. As for why... well I'm not getting into that because it's just going to start fights.
besides... the gaming companies make the games so they have every right to decide what categories to put it into. Of course we have the right to put them into the our own categories, but since the companies make them only they can decide the official categories. No matter what we want that is the fact; they make them, so only they can decide offical genres.
Also... the reason for "official" terms is so that we are all speaking the same "language". Otherwise we'd be talking different "languages"... that'd require translations a lot of the time.
Also by "gaming industry" I didn't just mean companies such as SquareSof or Electronic Arts. In addition to them, I meant gaming magazines and websites. And the magazine writers are gamers... so your desire to gave gamers decide is meet to some extent. Besides I think that in general most gamers would be the wrong sort of person to hand such decisions to. As for why... well I'm not getting into that because it's just going to start fights.
besides... the gaming companies make the games so they have every right to decide what categories to put it into. Of course we have the right to put them into the our own categories, but since the companies make them only they can decide the official categories. No matter what we want that is the fact; they make them, so only they can decide offical genres.
Objectively speaking? There's no such thing when it comes to quality. Q@uality is something that is subjective. Remember the old saying "beauty is the eye of the beholder"? Well, crap is in the eye of the beholder too.
Besides there is more to Diablo than just point and click.
Besides some people like point and click.
Besides there is more to Diablo than just point and click.
Besides some people like point and click.
Inspirational quote of the day: "Well, crap is in the eye of the beholder too."
Yes, I like that one. Please add to quote database. 
