The Dink Network

From the Windemere Website:

A new function voting system is online. Vote on which functions you think should be in Windemere. Make sure and specify the arguments to be provided and what they are. The voting system can be accessed here.

Thanks.

I posted one rather crappy idea... thanks for, er listening. I'm sure other people will think of useful things.

Thanks.

Keep in mind this list doesn't include dink functions - these will be the ONLY functions in Windemere. So, if you want move functions and such, someone had better add them.

So what happened to all the suggestions that various people gave you over the years?

Things like having sp_range and sp_distance calculated on circle radius rather than length of a square...

Defining terrain to be more interactive (tiles with brains?)

sp_transparency()... defines a sprites opacity (is that possible)

sp_stop_sound()... stops a wav from playing

sp_movie()... plays an avi or bink video

dissolve() rather than fade down to black and then fade up, is it possible to fade between one map square and another (are there map squares in Windmere, I forget)

Improvements on the brains (like when a brain 9 enemy is attacking it does this weird direction thing rather than actually walking in a diagonal line using the diagonal based graphics...

And let me know which of these (if any) I should submit on your page...

All of them.

Keep in mind not all suggestions will make it, but most will. However, if something isn't on the page, it definitely won't.

So you want us to do your job for you...

While I like the idea of having community involvement, refusing to even add the most basic commands is pure neglect. You're leading something, make some dang decisions.

Well, no, I don't want you to program the thing for me, which is what I consider my job. I want you to give me input. And I don't see it as neglect, because it isn't. Neglect would be letting the project die and never be heard of again. It's more like, encouraging community outreach.

Well actually it is a form of neglect. You are simply neglecting your responsibility to come up with some of the ideas. It is the creators responsibility to come up with most of the ideas. Don't get me wrong. Community input is a very good thing. But did C++ and C# use community ideas only? Did Dink Smallwood? What about the great Final Fantasy series? Lord of the Rings? Discworld? Star Wars? The Matrix? No, of course they did not. The creators lived up to their reponsibility and come up with most of the ideas themselves. When I send in some material for my books to the publishers it will be mostly my ideas. Even if it gets published it will still be mostly my ideas, with some from my editor as well... in other words it will mostly be the ideas of those behind the project, rather than the community. Very little will be ideas of others, even though I will get others I know to read it and give me advice. Since Windemere is your project you should and must come up with at least some of the ideas for ALL areas/parts of it. This is because in anything that involves creativity that is the only true way to bring out the full creative potential of any project since its creator(s) know more about it than any one else.

It is just simple logic and common sense, not to mention reason. When something is one or the other it can never be simply ignored without being given decent consideration. When it is two of them it should be given good consideration. When one is all three it must be given full consideration and thought about seriously.

Just trying to get you thinking about it by using the three cousins of logic, common sense and reason. If you disagree with me then fine, that is your prerogative.

Programming is only one part of software development.

Ideally, you (or someone you recruit) should go through the existing Dink Smallwood commands and decide which commands to keep, which commands to change, and so on. Add those to the list so we have something to work from. Then ask for suggestions.

Yeah, that sounds like some inane work. But that comes with the 'job'. Expecting people to do almost all of this for you (I noticed you added a 'say' command at least) seems very silly.

I happen to know how much Merlin has to do this week or 2...
You're right about comming up with such, and I'll get more active and get this together. Good idea to go through the Dink commands too.
Keep submitting, I'll make a list, (check it twice...[find out which ones are naughty or nice])
Keep in mind, I'm thinking of keeping the list a bit lean and basic, because if you notice in Talon intro article 1, the developer can make his own command functions (rather easily too. )

Don't take this the wrong way, but:

I thought community involvement was a good thing. If this is too much than I will make sure and, in the future, limit all consulting and advice on the engine between Ric and Matt. And maybe SimonK, because he's useful like that.

I would like to apologize to everybody: I was asking too much. I thought it would be a nice thing to involve more of the community but I obviously let it grow to neglect. Somehow. Hopefully I'll figure out where that line is someday. But, in the future, I'll err on the side of caution and keep involvement to as low a rate as possible.

Thanks for pointing this out. Now I'm certain that I must learn to be more xenophobic.

Stupid foreigners

So are the standard/old DinkC commands going to present. I'd kinda assumed they are part of windmere based on the backwards compatible thing.

If not maybe you should have a poll on which ones to lose of the old DinkC and why...

Let's see if I can simplify this for you.

Community Involvement (Good): Asking for opinions and suggestions for any aspect of a project, and taking them into consideration. Also, not feeling discouraged when you get little-to-no response (this will often happen).

Community Involvement (Bad): Relying on the community for opinions and suggestions.

Again. Good: asking for suggestions. Bad: relying on suggestions.

Is the line still blurry? Get some perspective.

I think your idea to involve the community is a very good one... just your arrogance, "So, if you want move functions and such, someone had better add them", is extremely troubling.

Merlin dropped all backwards compatibility.

I don't know about others, but I personally was not complaining about the level of community involvement as much as I was complaining about the way it was done.

Yes it is a good thing. Yes you should get advice on commands from experienced dmod creators like redink1 and SabreTrout and the rest, just not get them to come up with it all. This is mainly because yo know your project, its limitations and your own limitations better than them.

Don't get what I said before wrong. The more community involvement the better. Just as long as you come up with most of the ideas. The community just can't be expected to come up with most of the ideas, because it just can't do so, since most of it doesn't have the ability at programming as you have (that's not to say that none do).

Don't do so little community involvement, just don't do it in that way.

That is just my humble advice. You don't have to listen to me or take my advice if you don't want to.

TheDragonMan
(My new signature, since I now wish that was my profile name).

A poll on what to drop? That is a much better idea (hope you are paying attention Merlin). That is a good way to implement community involvement.

Oh and I agreefully with redink1's simple staement about good and bad community involvement.

TheDragonMan

I doubt he will have to drop anything. A poll is stupid because why not just implement all the functions and just not use the ones you don't want to use. There isn't a finite amount of functions, I assume Merlin can add as many as he wants.

Wow. Patronising, condescending, name-calling,
arrogance is undeserving of apologies.

Silly, neglectful, arrogant? whew. But not as bad as the condescension.

I assume this is 'against' me?