The Dink Network

Yep thats right why do you think we still have tail bones.
Also all vertabrate(animal with a backbone) all come from the same ancestor.

Because God said so.

Case closed.

Look there is no "god" in the way you you people think.
What suprises me you rather beleive bronze age myths than modern logic.

Bronze age myths that are still believed to this day?

You do realize, that atoms and scientific reasoning has flaws in it too right?

Also, people can believe what they want to believe.

If someone think that if they touch their self at night, they're going to win they lottery, let them believe it's so.

Yes abs. Because the world is indeed flat. DON'T YOU TRY AND PROVE ME WRONG!

The same people that beleived the Earth was the center of the universe. WRONG!!
the Earth is such an insignificant part of the universe.
There millions possilby billions of galaxys,also broze age people beleived the world was flat.WRONG AGAIN!!

You know what's funny? Everything in the Universe actually revolves around everything else. Yes, the universe in unbound, so thus everything in the universe revolves around anything. So you're wrong about that. Now the earth being flat? That was a theory and it evolved into what we know today. So you're partially wrong there.

No they really did beleive the world was flat
they also thought the sun revolved around the earth. WRONG!! its vice versa

I know they thought the world was flat, I wasn't dismissing it.

And again, the universe is unbound so The Earth and the Sun revolve around each other just like everything else.

Next 200 years and it's a fact that Earth is square. As for humans evolving from apes, I think it's pretty much been proven, but that doesn't dismiss the fact that maybe some other being made us evolve. Some extraterrestrial's, who were believed to be Gods, technology.

Humans are apes.

I am a duck, you pig.

Well, I'll tell you right now that the atheist' claim that christian taught the world to be flat and the center of the universe is bull-turd. Here is a coin from about 400 AD - I won't blame you if you doubt that thing he's holding is a symbol of a round earth.

Let's skip forward 300 years to 700 AD, a period of history referred to as the "Early Middle Age". Holy crab-cakes, WTF is that? That's right, the king is holding a globe with a cross mounted on top.

"B-b-but", you say, "That's a flat globe! that just means they believed in a Terry Pratchett-styled disc world!" Wrong again. If we skip forward a few years - 656 to be precise - to 1356 AD, right in the middle of the "Later Medieval Period", we find an example of the Globus Cruciger that is, as its name suggests, obviously spherical.

The reality is that Judeo-Christian religions always knew the earth was round: "Do you not know? Do you not hear? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
"It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in." Isaiah 40:21-22

Of course, Augustine of Hippo argued a flat earth, but we must remember that Augustine was also a man who did little travel and who taught that God literally wanted a kingdom established on earth, directly contradicting Christ's own statements.

In spite of this frivolity, The Venerable Bede wrote that Earth was "not merely circular like a shield [or] spread out like a wheel, but resembl[ing] more a ball"

Regarding a geocentric system, well, it may be that this was the predominant theory held by early religious groups, but I'll personal guarantee that medieval atheists thought that too. In the end it was a Christian who, the year after the telescope was invented, postulated that Copernicus' heliocentric system was, in fact credible.

We don't come from apes. And God DOES exist. Otherwise, there was no way the world could have been created.
If you wanna call yourself a stinky monkey, fine with me.

Are your knuckles dragging on the ground pred, is that where this came from?

@DD NO!! God/allah dos not exist
and we do evolve from Apes our DNA is like 97% match for chimps
Its just you religous people pretend you know everything with no real logical backup

And if god/allah did exist he would of dies AGES!! AGO
the oldest recorded person was jennel calment who lived in France from 1875-1997

DD are you saying that this "GOD" is as old as the universe
when the universe was first created the temparture was possibly(you see right there im not pretending that i fully know unlike you religous scumbags)
trillions trillios of degrees
and oxygen did not exist until much later.

SO YOUR LOGIC IS FALSE!!

@ Predator

Who/what made the first living organism on earth?

um.... pred... the theory of evolution was disproved not to long ago... its no longer a valid theory... the theory of evolution is just wrong in so many ways. its stupid and short sighted. i am done here.

That's just it! Allah (God to you) lives forever because He's God. Duh! You think that God is like a human, you stupid dang scumbag?
And if you wanna say you were descended from monkeys that could only shoot and eat, eat and shoot, fine with me.

Predator, the idea of "God" in Islam, Judaism and Christianity is rather similar. See, being a god means that you are not typically confined by your creations. This is reflected by the titles which has been traditionally applied to God - (יהוה‎ ) YHWH, which means "the self existent one", (עֵלִי ) El means "powerful being" and is the Hebrew equivalent of Allah and possibly shares roots with the ancient deity "Baal". The theory goes that since God (whether you call it YHWH, God or Allah) created time and space, those two dimensions have no effect on God.

Ed. I just realised that Ba'al actually means "son of the powerful one" in semitic... scary thought.

Allah/God/What you call him = immortal, needs no earthly stuff, immortal.

i thought YHWH meant causes to become? yeah thats it...

@DD F#ck you muslim prick
religion does nothing good.
Life started in the oceans(atleast on earth)
and you also probaly beleive fairies exist

God did not make us our DNA did from our parents
Also we were apes 5million years ago which is such a long time

what you religous people need to understand that things change and evolve.

God is just a myth get over it.

i also read the religous people in a nation the lower than quality of life Norway has a low religous percentage and saudi arabia which ranks low on quality of life has a lot of religous people.

Bomb Predator!!

I do believe in fairies! I do! I do!
I do believe in fairies! I do! I do!
Let me have my beliefs you nutless ape.

pred go back to your goat whore.

zeddexx shut the f#ck and grow up.

@DD i told you moron we were apes 5million years ago not anymore.

Pred then why are there still apes why did only some evolve? And if so - err where did the apes evolve from?

ZOMG pred... that was the most ironic post EVER.

He was an APE! BAHAHHAHAH!

Hehe - zeddex is right.

Also, regarding "poverty stricken muslim pricks", what religion do you think is the most prevalent in Dubai?

DD I wasnt my self my ancesters were you F#cking idiot

Yeah, thats why your all covered in hair and your dick protudes out from your pants right?

I can't take this anymore.

Sorry quiz, :/ believe me, i know how you feel.

I agree with Predator. Stop saying he's wrong just cause he's Predator. He actually has made valid points, although he could still bring them out more calmly.

There's too much proof to say humans did not evolve from apes. There's too much wrong in religious books. Such as God creating Earth, animals and humans and lands all at the same time. The freaking thing explains that God created humans and lions and all sorts of animals, yet it doesn't mention him creating Dinosaurs. I mean, what the hell? If he created land and the seas, and instantly created nowaday animals after, that just goes to show it's wrong.

I believe certain things from all the religions, and turn them into a scientific (not really scientific, but the closest word) point of view. I don't care if you believe in God(s), but religious people are too stubborn and I say some of them should look at the evidence, because I can't believe that in the year 2011, some of us are still believeing in some comic-book -like superhero old man, who sits on clouds in the sky ordering what's going to happen at every dang second. That's not God, that's just life in general.

Well when it comes to religion nobody is right or wrong, but telling other people that they are wrong is wrong...

Just discussing religion on the DN....
Pred, what do you have against religion? Was the blonde girl religious or something?

You certainly aren't giving a very good view of religious people Doodler, with all that jibba-jabba. And no, saying someone's religion is wrong, is not wrong. If someone hadn't said "Your religious views are wrong. This is how it really is..." back in the days, we would still be living in a world where the Earth is flat, all because some peoples' religion was indeed wrong.

Those weren't religions, those were scientific beliefs. BUSTED!

No, scientific people always knew Earth was round, and some religions knew it too. The problem was, that because of religious beliefs that were wrong, people were forced to believe Earth was flat. If they didn't, they'd be executed because they didn't believe/trust in their religion.

I think someone already pointed out some of that earlier in this thread.

executed
Not my religion, so don't say anything like "Muslims want to kill us" and such.

@DD the thing that i have against religon are people like who are F#CKING pieces of crap.

@Skull about dam time someone with logic came in

Your religion was as much part of it as almost all the other religions. Except for the "scientific religions". Don't worry, I'm not putting the blame on your religion and saying that you're the only ones who did this. It happened all around and you weren't even the ones to begin it, but it did happen in there too. I'm not here to blame religions. You may believe in them, but I wish people would take a look at things a little bit more realistically, instead of believeing in things without any reason or backup.

Were they?
They were not real Muslims then.
End of story.
And your bias against religion is as unbalanced as your bias against blondes, blacks, Asians etc.

Just because they don't execute people these days it doesn't mean they didn't do that back in the day. You don't see people executed around most of the world these days. But back in the days you saw that everywhere. And people are still executed/murdered/killed in there, just like everywhere else around the World. There's no denying that. Like I said, it wasn't Muslims' fault, nor did they start it, but they DID follow the World just like now.

I don't know about Predator's claims against blondes and black people, but I do have quite good evidence and a reason with it to actually believe in my "scientific religion".

Well, not Muslims.
Not true ones.
End of story.

Yes, Muslims did it. Don't believe it if you don't, but as I said, they followed, or at least tried to follow what everyone else did around the globe. They were real Muslims, and that's a fact.

Yet another inflammable thread.

Bye.

Makes me numb, the ignorance of these atheists. Muslims have been some of the biggest contributors to science, especially in the fields of medicine and maths.

The problems with atheism include: atheists seem to be driving for a sterile, 1984/mirror's edge-styled world where everything is based on solid knowledge and fact. If you have a fantasy that you want to believe true, well surprise - there'll always be an atheist to burn you dreams.

Have you ever wondered why atheists are historically under-achievers? Is it because of religious repression? No - atheists believe our existence is coincidental, evolutionary, that no-one really cares for you as an individual made in a divine image. No, you must try to celebrate your' inner god although you're already an outdated specimen by atheist standards. This is why humanists often turn nihilist - atheism is a nihilistic ideology. There's no innate desire for self-betterment as nature will improve on you anyway.

The least biased/most neutral individuals would be agnostics, but indecision makes it hard for one to accomplish anything.

Skull, I know more about my religion than you do.
END

Muslims have also been one of the most strichly religious people, and they are actually in the top ten list of killing people because they don't believe in Muslims' religion.

I think it's much more reasonable to believe in what you actually have some proof of, and in things that aren't absolutely impossible.

I don't have time to explain clear-as-day things the whole day, so I'm just gonna leave it there.

EDIT: Actually, let me reprhase the edit. I never said I know more about your religion than you do, Doodler. But apparently I do know more about your history.

Schnapple: You haven't yet addressed Christianity's bullshoot regarding evolution. This is a theory that the catholic church still does not accept, and are in fact doing their best to fight the idea despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary- just like they tried to suppress the geocentric view in the middle ages. In this evolved time and age, the church just doesn't have the power to make peoples lives a living hell for wanting to make up their own minds anymore. Thank god.

Here's something: True Muslims DON'T kill others for not being Muslims. Extremists and people claiming to be Muslim do. So all these people in history that killed people WEREN'T Muslim. Read the Quran before making up stuff. Murder is forbidden. Forbideeeeen.

Originally posted by Predator:
@DD i told you moron we were apes 5million years ago not anymore.

Originally posted by DinkDoodler:
He was an APE! BAHAHHAHAH!

As I posted earlier: humans are apes. After a brief search I found several other websites to support this in case one of you is the sort of person that thinks Wikipedia is totally unreliable, and whilst doing so I found this nice little paragraph here:

"Humans did not come from apes. No qualified person in the scientific community has ever made that claim, including Darwin. All apes and humans are desceneded from a single proto-ape species that lived millions of years ago and no longer exists. Thus humans can be said to be closely related to the other apes, but we are certainly not descended from them. Actually, we are apes, no less so than chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans and gibbons. Whether or not you choose to subscribe to evolutionary theory, there is no doubt that all human beings, including Jesus Christ himself, are classified, both genetically and morphologically as an ape species."

So you can stop arguing about that point for a start.

Evolution hasn't occurred in the 8000+ years that humans have been recording. Cellular mutation and interbreeding is as close as it gets.

If humans have evolved from a common ape-like ancestor then why aren't Germanic, Celtic and Slavic people bodily hairier then Semitic, Turkic and Latin peoples? Seems counter-evolutionary to me.

If our ancestors lived amongst the dinosaurs and volcanoes, why did humans evolve into a succulent, hairless, bite-sized morsel that happily engorges itself given half the chance so the dinosaur scores bonus protein? Surely we'd do better as an intelligent rodent with opposable thumbs!

Evolution supports the theory that some humans are more evolved then others. Looks like slavery might make a comeback afterall - oh wait - thank God for William Wilberforce and his RSPCA....

As I very simply stated, so even you could understand, DinkDoodler: You're wrong. Hell, the ten commandments told people not to kill, not to steal and not to do anything, but yet the church themselves were the worst to do all these things. Same applies to Muslims, whether you want to believe it or not. You see, it doesn't really matter to me if you say Muslims didn't do so or if you said they did. Because even a 12-year-old Muslim kid who plays video games all day and doesn't know about anything else but that and religion, can't change the truth.

Schnapper, evolution happens within every living being all the time. If you went back to the 18th century, you would be surprised how different humans were. Our minds also evolve, that's why we're constantly coming up with more clever and more clever ideas in science, for example.

Why aren't some people more bodily hairier? First, they are. Second, why is a gorilla bigger than a chimpanzee? That's a relatively stupid question.

I don't think we lived amongst the Dinosaurs. I've already stated a couple of times but I think when we were apes, aliens came amongst us and did something to make us evolve into more like them. Which is where we got all the religious stuff to begin with. But that's just me.

In fact, some people ARE more evolved than others. Why else would you think some were able to begin doing science in the ancient Greece, while others haven't learnt to write yet?

That made my head ache - I'll get back to you tomorrow after a few Panadol(R) and a long night's sleep.

Ed. Ninja attack. *falls back asleep*

Originally posted by Schnapper:
Evolution hasn't occurred in the 8000+ years that humans have been recording.

Humans haven't been recording that long and yes, it has. Evolution is happening all the time. Evolution doesn't suddenly occur every now and again, and it's an ongoing, gradual process.

Originally posted by Schnapper:
If humans have evolved from a common ape-like ancestor then why aren't Germanic, Celtic and Slavic people bodily hairier then Semitic, Turkic and Latin peoples? Seems counter-evolutionary to me. I would have thought Germanic, Celtic and Slavic people were bodily hairier than Semitic, Turkic and Latin peoples. And even if they aren't, how is that counter-evolutionary?

Originally posted by Schnapper:
If our ancestors lived amongst the dinosaurs and volcanoes, why did humans evolve into a succulent, hairless, bite-sized morsel that happily engorges itself given half the chance so the dinosaur scores bonus protein? Surely we'd do better as an intelligent rodent with opposable thumbs!

Evolution isn't conscious and as such can't think ahead. Things that work reproduce and, evidently, we worked. We're still working (and still evolving).

Originally posted by Schnapper:
Evolution supports the theory that some humans are more evolved then others.

"More evolved"? Is that measured by how much the individual has changed since life began or what? Because even if we could measure that, the difference between different humans would be so minimal as to be non-existent. I don't think any humans are "more evolved" than others.

As to your mention of slavery - how is that relevant in any way?

Originally posted by Skull:
Our minds also evolve, that's why we're constantly coming up with more clever and more clever ideas in science, for example.

Our minds evolve, but that's not the reason we're progressing with science. We just are. Progress works that way.

Originally posted by Skull:
I've already stated a couple of times but I think when we were apes, aliens came amongst us and did something to make us evolve into more like them.

...

Originally posted by Skull:
But that's just me.

Thank God.

Originally posted by Skull:
In fact, some people ARE more evolved than others. Why else would you think some were able to begin doing science in the ancient Greece, while others haven't learnt to write yet?

That has nothing to do with the Greeks being "more evolved". Shut the hell up, get your head out of your arse and... yeah, just shut up.

Ok, so you don't know anything about how this existence works, so there's another person to mark out who you can actually discuss things with.

Our minds evolve and that is the EXACT reason why we are progressing in science. It also effects many other things than science. If our minds hadn't evolved, we wouldn't have even been able to invent the wheel, which has to do with physiques, which again has to do with science.

I can see why my explanations would seem ridiculous right there, but it's actually quite a common "religion". I also didn't even scratch the subject, just quickly pointed that out, so it seems ridiculous. Besides, you can not believe in it but don't be a ducking rude prick about it. I never insulted DinkDoodler's religion, even though I don't believe in it.

And actually, it has everything to do with evolving mentally when you learn to write, learn to count etc. If ancient Greece people were able to write, count, read and do science and then there are people nowadays who can't do that, that goes to show and just completely proves that some people evolve slower than others. And again, don't be a dumb pig about it. There was no need to insult me about that.

If our ancestors lived amongst the dinosaurs and volcanoes,

That's actually a religious view. =) The world is no older than that 8000 years, and I want a pet velociraptor dammit!

But the accuracy of the theory of evolution isn't really my point, it's the way the church treats anything that is at odds with their dogma: Willing ignorance and bigotry.

Well, we evolved from water apes, if you believe in evolution, which I do.
Water apes didn't have as much hair so they could swim faster.
Water apes had webbed hands and feet, so they could swim faster.

Normal apes can't swim, so it wasn't them who we evolved from.

Water apes were almost always in water, so slowly evolving we started to live near water.

Oh, but I could believe an alien life form helped us out.
I just have to be patient and wait for the results of the star child skull analysis.

My point of view about the aliens has nothing to do with evolving though. It's just that too dang many religous texts say "People from the stars came and created us" or "The starpeople came down from the skies". Hell, it's even described that Jesus raised to Heaven in a shuttle.

It's amazing how, if people are annoyed by certain other people (mentioning no names *cough*), they persist in replying to their obviously trolling topics.

Ho hum.

I like how something not nearly as bad as this gets closed pretty quickly, but this one stays open.

God made apes and apes turned into humans suck it atheists.

i really have no idea why people take predators side at all, hes a racist, sadist, and a troll who only likes to piss people off, and cause as much trouble as he can. (not talking about evolution theory) and for those of you who thinks it was wrong what me and doodler did? your over reacting, we had both had ENOUGH of preds crap, and wanted to mess with HIM for a change. what? WHAT? you think thats feeding him? i dont give a crap, nobody else seems to be doing anything.

People aren't going to change their opinions because of one arrogant troll, Zeddexx. We may be taking *his* side, because we actually believe that, how he goes about showing it though, we don't agree with.

oh, leppy i didnt mean taking his side in the belief of evolution, im talking about how everyone told us off for messing with him, and called us childish

They weren't taking Predator's side. They were taking the side of having a civil, non-spammy forum.

Ah okay, remind me again why this thread hasn't been closed yet?

What Leprochaun said. It's impossible to have a serious debate because even if anyone here was in the least likely to change their minds, no one has yet posted an argument that's anywhere close to... well... a real argument.

Anti-evolution: "But God exists; your argument is invalid. I'm not really going to bother trying to understand the theory of evolution because I know it's not true."

Pro-evolution: "You just don't understand evolution properly. I mean I don't either, but that's okay because I believe in it."

Each side insults the other, explaining their beliefs with an accompaniment of snide remarks, content in the knowledge that they are the correct one. I've partaken of these sorts of arguments before on other forums, and they have never got anywhere and they never will. Everyone is arguing to change the minds of the opposition with no openness to having their own mind changed whatsoever. It's pointless and stupid to argue in this way.

"Each side insults the other, explaining their beliefs with an accompaniment of snide remarks, content in the knowledge that they are the correct one. I've partaken of these sorts of arguments before on other forums, and they have never got anywhere and they never will. Everyone is arguing to change the minds of the opposition with no openness to having their own mind changed whatsoever. It's pointless and stupid to argue in this way."

This is what we call "Politics."

But the accuracy of the theory of evolution isn't really my point, it's the way the church treats anything that is at odds with their dogma: Willing ignorance and bigotry.

Yes, 100% agree there, BUT,'theeee church' you are talking about here isnt such a power player these days, in their lust/greed for power they put themselves above God and in place of God, started wars to further their agendas for power and control and used their followers (through fear of hellfire and brimstone ohh and eternal dangation - they wield that one like a club) for their own purpose yet still, in the end they lie weakened.

Their wanting to control what their believers believed by not allowing them to read the word for themselves is a thing of the past also now we just need to get rid of their "boss" who still takes too many liberties and christians as a whole, get blamed for their arrogance and misuse of the word.... arr pulls on breaks, clicks to <rant mode off>.....

Guess what I am saying here is PLEASE dont tar all christians with their - the church's - brush ok thats just one small fraction of the whole - albeit historically a very powerful one.

Carry on...

Edit: Also agree with you if thats how it is piggy - but to strip us of debate? NOoooo - wheres the fun in that! Just for your info - I actually do think about the others point of view, if they are in my opinion, valid and backed up by facts or at least reasonable reasoning, I will mull over those thoughts and give them a decent hearing. But yes - attacking the person behind the information isnt condusive to a decent learning experience.

I dont see how arguing about what happened many many years ago will ever be sorted though- we will never actually KNOW - we will only ever surmise based on what we know now - and funny think is we will probably be wrong then anyways hehe. Look at carbon dating for your first clue... such clever wee scientists NOT I refer you to this thread

Yes I'm a holy man but do I read the bible no. Man wrote th bible not god I absoublutley despise the church and saint'patrick to be more specific.

Yep man wrote it - years later - but under guidance

Of another man when god sends me a wizard I'll read it.

Eiiiiii! Ms. Dink is it! EVERYBODY RUN!

silly you - I tagged you so YOU are it

Nu uh! don't you see the question mark in you tagline. You don't know how to tag people. Quick, rainbow powers, TAKE ME AWAY!!
FFWWOOOSSHHHHH

Okay, I'll humor you. If Humans did indeed evolve from apes, thene where'd the apes come from? You'll answer with the earth coming from nothing, volcanic activity and lightning creating basic amino acids that created the first life that evolved from bacteria to fish to land mammals to apes to humans. But then, where did the Universe come from? How does something come from nothing? How does nothing create something? See, now those who believe the Big Bang Theory are on the same page of the people who believed that flies came from the ground. Science can be used to make the believers of God (or any other religious thing) disbelieve, but it is also a double-edged blade. You see, some scientists are using science to try and prove that God does indeed exist. Predator, you are using something that can neither be proven or disproven. You can ask me 'Why do you believe in God?' and I'll say, 'Why do you not?'. You can tell me that God doesn't exist, I can tell you that he does. You can give me examples why he doesn't, whilst I can give you an example as to why he does. You can get others to aid your cause, I can get a few pastors to preach to you. The only difference is that you won't listen, you've already made up your mind that you will not believe in and upon God and Jesus. My religion states that those who do not believe in and upon God and Jesus will go to Hell, personally I would rather nobody go to Hell, but those who believe in something else, well I'll respect their decision. I will tolerate their view, I will learn why they believe in that view. I will listen to anyone preach their religion, but only if that person is willing to listen to mine. So please, Predator, for both our sakes, just stop trying to create chaos within this forum. I am not demanding you to stop, I am not telling you to leave (No matter how much I want to give you the bum's rush), all I want is peace. Just please stop.

Anyone wish to donate their' coccyx to science?

Also, enchilado - you may not be intellectually stimulated by this here debate, but every time we have one of these, it really gets my thinking gears grinding. Today I'll go into my local bookstore and buy some books on the origins of man that I might study this more closely - perhaps Steven Jay Gould and Richard Dawkins... suggestions?

"We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased." Clive Lewis/ Weight of Glory.
(Don't even get started on him (C.S.Lewis), that's completely beside the point. The reason I posted this quote is because I feel it sums up the fact that the current generations are victims of wilful ignorance because they refuse to challenge the rules and claims in place, in favour of indolence and hedonism, or on the other hand, pointless austerity and faith based on feelings rather then intellects.)

Futurama answered this question, and frankly, their answer makes the most sense.

Something brought us here, and then we evolved.

I love these things religion threads that is not flaming (not saying it's happening now). That's interesting schnap we had a teacher whogave us a test to name all the oceans and before it started he asked us all how many oceans there were? A girl said there was three and he agree I was one of the only ones to pass because I objected and knew there were four Indian,Atlantic,pacific,artic.
When you guys hear me ask god for a wizard there's a reason for it. In the ancient Irish religion Druidism the Irish needed aid against the people of skandenavia and there ships. In response God sent them a wizard known commanly as "Merlin". Now Merlin helped the Druids beat back the skandenavians and defended them from the roman conqueres. After doing his job Merlin took his leave but he came back but he was in England not Ireland where he thought he was and so starts the common story.

The common story where merlin has to defeat morganna?

Today we are "victims" of not knowing the difference between desire and need want and necessity, there is so much *stuff* available out there to distract you all from the purpose you were put here for and although I do see a change away from this attitude at last, its still basically a me me me ME FIRST & ALWAYS world at the moment, I find that sad. I thought we were here to walk beside each other, prop each other up and help each other through this journey called life with family and love being the cornerstone to all, everything else being a mere distraction in the greater scheme of things. What do you lot hold most dear?

@ Mrgantoe, christianity encompasses part of druidism because without it the *church* was not welcome to the older religions so they allowed parts to blend so they could suck in the ancient religious followers and turn them from being uncouth heathens and pagans heh heh.

I'm just here to snap pictures through a scope.

Mists of Avalon Interesting

Also interesting

Ok msdink maybe it was a cannibal cult but I can't put that on a job application.

I wasnt running it down - reading the stars and seasons and stuff way back then was pretty advanced

I had missed this post earlier:

Originally posted by Schnapper:
Makes me numb, the ignorance of these atheists. Muslims have been some of the biggest contributors to science, especially in the fields of medicine and maths.
The problems with atheism include: atheists seem to be driving for a sterile, 1984/mirror's edge-styled world where everything is based on solid knowledge and fact. If you have a fantasy that you want to believe true, well surprise - there'll always be an atheist to burn you dreams.
Have you ever wondered why atheists are historically under-achievers? Is it because of religious repression? No - atheists believe our existence is coincidental, evolutionary, that no-one really cares for you as an individual made in a divine image. No, you must try to celebrate your' inner god although you're already an outdated specimen by atheist standards. This is why humanists often turn nihilist - atheism is a nihilistic ideology. There's no innate desire for self-betterment as nature will improve on you anyway.
The least biased/most neutral individuals would be agnostics, but indecision makes it hard for one to accomplish anything.

Some serious stereotyping going on here. I don't believe in God and I do believe in evolution, but that doesn't mean I want that sort of world you described. A "1984/mirror's edge-styled world where everything is based on solid knowledge and fact" sounds very dreary to me. A world where God existed would be much more interesting, and I wish He did. But when I examine all the evidence (that I've seen), I simply can't. I can't believe something that, when I think rationally, is ridiculous. I won't believe something just because I want to. If you want to do so, go ahead - but if an argument is happening, I will argue.

Science examines the evidence and finds an explanation, whereas religion has an explanation that it forces the facts into. If God was real I don't think that would be necessary. The facts would just fit.

Just because I don't believe I was made in someone's divine image doesn't mean I think I don't matter, or that I'm not important. Everyone matters - everyone is important. Everything is important. I don't need to be singled out as being more important than anything else to feel happy and secure.

Originally posted by Schnapper:
Also, enchilado - you may not be intellectually stimulated by this here debate, but every time we have one of these, it really gets my thinking gears grinding. Today I'll go into my local bookstore and buy some books on the origins of man that I might study this more closely - perhaps Steven Jay Gould and Richard Dawkins... suggestions?

I don't know much about Stephen Jay Gould. Richard Dawkins... well, he can be a little harsh toward religion, but his books are good if you don't find that off-putting. The important thing is, I think, that you try to read with an open mind. Imagine, just while you're reading, that everything he says is true. Do your best to believe it - just while you're reading.

And to those who questioned how "something" could come from "nothing" in regards to life beginning, I suggest you begin by reading this article.

EDIT: Mrgantoe made a post while I was writing this that I just thought I would respond to...

Originally posted by Mrgantoe:
I [...] knew there were four Indian,Atlantic,pacific,artic.

What about the Southern Ocean?

Oh you didn't read the whole things dangit gave myself away *whistles and twiddle thumbs*.

Enchilado listen up schnapper stated facts no were within any of those posts did he directly day that he supported the ideas. Schnapper is one of the only people on this sight that dosnt look for fights if he ever would to incline some one to have negative views of him or tempt them to make insensitive comments it was surely on accident for I know for a fact that schnapper is the dinker I respect the most I enjoy his contributions to the forum and from personally working with him he is an extremely nice individual. On a final mote I prefer to eat snapper instead of enchiladas . This was directed at the first quote.

Enchilado that is the arctic.

Er, the Arctic and Southern Oceans are on opposite sides of the globe.

We must not count it as an ocean were I live dangnabbit were taught by government fearing Americans Or we were out of it . which is code for we think of it as an extension of the other oceans.

Here's the ultimate test: go to a wild part of the jungle, Pred, and tell the apes "I was descended from you.''

Then see what they do. Comparable to the murders in sadist videogames like god of war.
Plus, skull, if someone murders they are not true Muslims no matter what they say.

Krisknox, that's a whole different thing. First, we should find out where *we* came from, then try to start finding out more complex things, such as how the Universe was created.

And I wouldn't really call my point of view science. Maybe "scientific" point of view, or "realistic" point of view. There ain't a word that fits it.

@ Enchilado: Perhaps I did stereotype, but from my experience and observation these points do typically ring true. No, I don't think that atheists are innately malicious - no more so then anyone else. What I do notice is that actions speak louder then words and even though the end justifies the means to some extent, the atheist "end" seems rather hopeless and sterile; there comes a point in ones life that one realizes trees are more beautiful then skyscrapers.

In this response I will briefly justify the embattled "stereotyping." Stereotyping, in my understanding, is synonymous with identifying normality in X. It is different to "prejudice" which, as the word's components ("Pre-", meaning "before"; "-Judge", meaning "analyse according to law")indicate, is to pass an assumption on X without understanding it.

In other news, I ended up procuring Stephen Jay Gould's "Life's Grandeur" (look out, I'll be waving the "two magisteriums" banner any minute, now! ) and Steve Jones' "The Origin of the Species, Updated".

@ Skull: I respect you for believing in extra-terrestrial intervention - two of the greatest fantasy writers of the modern age shared this belief: Robert E. Howard (Conan the Barbarian, Solomon Kane, Kull) and his compatriot H.P. Lovecraft (Cthulu mythos, other horror stories).

Post No. 100
What I think: We all have our beliefs, but if we discuss them we'll fight. Sad, isn't it?

well i dont believe in evolution. but i respect the fact you all have your own opinions, and i wont try to change them. howzzat?

/me pushes Zed off the fence - thats not a good place to sit bud

Hey, you'd better not give him ALL the credit for bringing up the blonde girlfriend.
Resist us and die!

I always wanted to say that

So stop being a f!cking hypocrite
and grow up

Who's being the hypocrite now, Predator?

I'm tall.

@Marpo how the hell am i being a hypocrite?
DD post the most useless crap more then anyone else combined.

Really?

Ok Pred you got me I'll stop posting useless crap.

Did anyone ELSE laugh at preds last post? oh the irony!

Everything is useless crap.

Time to swallow my pride and powder the zeps. Enchilada looking back on my reply to your schnapper quotes I seem to have over reacted. I started reading and then assumed what the rest was going to be about so I decided to fly to schnapps rescue for some unknown reason after all he can defend himself. I still have a teen mind remember that . Well I hope that was adequet *swollows sadness*.

This is one of the reasons why there's so much fighting on this website you guys don't apologize it takes a certain sense of pride and honer to confess that you were wrong especially when it's Pred who is right I would like to see more of it .

@zeddexx its not ironic im just speaking the truth about DD

At least science has some backup to their theories. Even if just minor, it's still backup. Religions have very little backup. For example, the bible says there's more than one God, yet people believe in only one God. So in some cases, they even oppose the very little backups they have. I actually do believe somewhat in all religions, but science has pretty much proven that not everything explained in religious texts, for example, should be taken literally.

The bible says there are more than one God? I never saw any text in the bible saying that...

In general religions have some sort of religious scripture from which they get their proof. Science gets its proof from measurements and logic.

"Then the Gods said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness..." and so on. Of course, 'the Gods' were later changed into 'God' to reduce the controversy surrounding the subject.

The Bible was changed at the hands of priests who made rules to suit themselves.
Quran can't be. Solid evidence for me!

How do you think Quran can't be changed? In fact, it's most likely that many small alternations have been done to it over the past years.

Wow. Skull. You should never be a theologian. It is understood that "God" entails both Jesus Christ and Jehovah. After all, the word used in the original Hebrew text is "אֱלהִים" (elohim), which simply means "powers". In fact, Israelites used this term to refer to various magistrates in their' political system.
The fact that there are at least two gods is widely excepted by intellectual Christians. To minimise the confusion this may cause the Goyim, Jehovah's Witnesses refer to God the Father as "Jehovah". A few anti-trinitarian and hard-line Arians do teach that there is literally only one God, that Jesus does not qualify as a deity and is not worshipful etc.

Regarding DD's comments, you must realise, DD, that the Bible as Christians hold it today, was written by multiple authors in two separate languages, unlike the Quran, which was written by one man at one time. Every time it is translated, it will lose some of it's integrity, though it's primary tenets are unlikely to change. That's why Greek poems don't rhyme in English.

The translation argument is fuelled by a couple of historical factors: scholars still don't completely understand all aspects of ancient Hebrew and Greek, much less back when the Bible was first translated (the Peshootta). Later translations of the Bible were often based on existing translations, so one might find it translated from Hebrew to Arabic to Latin, which created more room for errors. Finally, the English language itself changes noticeably every 300 years or so, which means most Goyim don't understand the Old King James translation which was published about 30 years after Shakespeare died, for example.

It is understood that "God" entails both Jesus Christ and Jehovah
My understanding is God = the father, the son, and the holy spirit (Trinity believer ) and did you know that an early King James version (around 1700 - 1800 I think) had Unicorn named 3x in it (what is now been translated into OX)

Exactly, Schnapper. They didn't completely understand the language, so they made the mistake of calling "Gods" as just "God". Everything else as to why the Bible multiplies God is just an excuse. It's said that it's just a mistake in writing, so on and so on. Bullcrap. First we have all these religions with multiple Gods, then comes the Bible that clearly states there's more than just one God, then it's changed later so people would actually believe it's just a mistake in writing. The chances that it meant one God is one in a million.

Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

O_o

...yeah, figured as much. Normally, I'd love to wade into this, but it's gotten a bit too full for me to address in a way I'd like and I'm just too busy today. You guys have fun.

I 'HATE' religious debates.

THREAD DERAILMENT!!

I guess I picked the wrong day to check this forum out after a long period of inactivity.

Or maybe it's been like this all the time. To hell with it, just read Striker's post and you'll have an idea of what I think.

Religious debates are fine. But this isn't a debate, it's a flamewar hosted by Predator, DinkDoodler and Skull.

*pshht* Heh, realised that. Over and out. *pshht; long silence*

Skulls humor accept it enchilada as for DD and Pred I can't speak for them .

Me not flaming at all.

"It is he who sits above the circle of the earth,"

A circle is not a sphere. Not very convincing when that argument is put forth. The circle may very well be a flat circular earth...

Religious debates are fine. But this isn't a debate, it's a flamewar hosted by Predator, DinkDoodler and Skull.

Look who's talking. Basically right there you started a flamewar, for calling others flamers. That contradicts your own post. Besides, I don't see any flaming. I saw people talking about religion and science, and if anything, you were the one who told people to shut up and so on. So thanks for starting a flamewar, buddy.

Predator, thanks for creating another argument. It was getting too peaceful on this forum.

So who likes cupcakes!

The Bible was changed at the hands of priests who made rules to suit themselves.
Quran can't be.

Look DD.

This is one of the many pro-Islam and anti-Christainity posts you have made.

And like I have said before, this gotta stop.

Sorry if I offended you.
Twas an ongoing religion, really, until people made up stuff to suit themselves.

@Zeddexx I do!

Me too.

love me some cupcakes

Predator you, oh, I don;t even know what to call you. It's just so obnoxious to be like, well if you believe in God, you're just plain dumb or You're just wrong.

Having no God is what he believes in. The absence of God is the truth to Predator. Whoever doesn't believe in the truth is usually wrong and plain dumb.

There is no God

If there was a God why would he give me bad eyesight and have nothing too redeem it.
I wouldnt mind having badeyes too much if i was 6'4-6'6 zone

I asked people at school and i said whats your weekness 1 gut 'im short the other guy said i dont know'
and i asked my brother and he said i dont know

meaning he does not a have major disability/weakness

If there was a God, why did he send up Predator?

To make us repent our sins.
God first gave Adam and Eve, as you call them (note: this is a place where all religions agree)
heaven and they were perfect, but they bit the forbidden fruit, so he put all humans to a test to see if they were good enough to be in heaven Your (and my) eyesight are part of that test, and you, sir are failing miserably.

What forbidden fruit

AND who the F#ck made Adam and Eve

and what makes you think there is only one god

the Egyptians beleived in 13 gods

God did not create the universe

Put it this way lets say i live in ancient and lead a bunch of people and they call me god that dos not mean that i created the universe.

What you need too undestand that NOTHING! last for ever not the earth,the sun,not even the universe itself.

if i was dicator of a nation i would tell religous people to stop being religous if they dont they will be shot.

if i was dicator of a nation i would tell religous people to stop being religous if they dont they will be shot.

Hgh. That's what atheism's done for you.

@Schnapper

Sometimes you must fight violence with violence.

Christianity teaches that "those who live by the sword will die by the sword", but if you attack my homeland I'll flush out the enemy, regardless of their' beliefs.

Modern religious people are not usually violent.

Predator, even if your beliefs were proven beyond a doubt to be correct, shooting people who believed something else would still be a total dickmove.

Nah i was just joking that was an example if atheist were like religous people.

You're just plain stoopid.
What's wrong with having a belief? If you don't like it, then keep it to yourself.

Youre just plain delusional

stop pretending to know everything.

you never question religion you never say stuff "Well maybe god did not creted the universe" or "maybe i did not just started with adam and eve it might started with other people"

you dont challenge religion you people just pretend to know everything.

If everyone was religous we will be still living in the dark ages.

Arguing with predator on religion is just like having fabulous/lesbian sex.

Totally useless.

Useless? You don't think it would be extremely pleasurable?

Well, a fabulous having sex with a lesbian would be fun.