Sabre's Say #237 : Formulaic extremes....and we hide them.
OK, the "Iced wonder" has been writing articles, and I must say it looks like fun. Personally, I sometimes think I should have done Alternative Heroes a bit more like this, instead of as a rather dubious (in some people opinions) file.
But nomatter, this is a load of barmy old cack, and if you don't like that then you can just read it and forget it...but some may find it interesting.
Here we go I guess...
Every d-mod is the same, with the same puzzles, enemies, plots and endings : There is nothing new and nothing inventive inthis community. Harsh words you may say, but to a large degree it is true.
O.K, so the limits of the Dink engine and the inability to create new graphics many Dinkers have (including me)limits the horizons a little, and it all gets a bit formulaic...it always has been with Dink.
Inevitably, Dink is the hero. He must hack some enemies up (boncas, pillbugs or slayers_ to gain money to buy an item. The item lets him into a new area, with slightly harder monsters. You do that, and the evil wizard who has stolen your pig/wife/girlfriend/virginity must then be killed...or a enemy that is...how scary is this?...BIGGER THAN NORMAL!
All the same, bar the occasional new spell, or small twist.
"Cloud Castle"? Complete rubbish! What, Dink has another new house, people are missing, there is an evil wizard behind it. You must find get some gold to buy an item, and find a few more. Then you move onto the next area, have to fight some more enemies, before fighting the wizard.
It's the most predictable d-mod that has ever been...you could tell the end before the game started!
But this, like many other d-mods, is all hidden behind a few "glossy tricks" - none of which would work without the others. A slightly different conversation style, a couple of fancy fights, a couple of gimmicky bosses. What is with this?
And all the other d-mods are the same, not branching out from the formular that has and always will be on the network.
Not only "Cloud Castle" hides it's faults like this, and download 5 random d-mods and 4 will follow this formula.
Maybe I have been a bit harsh though, some d-mod authors are still pushing the Dink engine about as if they own the thing. Redink has shown invention many a time, and has not only had you skipping about time with different characters (and no Dink) in "Cycles of Evil", but wandering about his basement in "Explorations"!!.
Paul Pliska broke the mould when his game "Lyna's Story" not only had a girl as the main character, but had a completely open game structure.
Even all that time ago, Gary Hertal had Dink morphing into other characters - which has not been replicated, and has not advanced for how many years?
Some are still changing, and evolving the Dink network, but how many, and how slowly?
A few promising games that would bend the mechanics of the Dink Engine have been announced, but not released (such as "SpookHouse", and theprophets racing game) whilst others have arrived but without any polish or pinache, such as "DinkRacer".
While we have small innovations every so often, a whole lot arrives when a game such as "FIAT" or "Pilgrims Quest" and these few d-mods blow everybody away, and inspire then to make the next super-game.
Will Dink get out of this trend of rigid thinking and similar games? No. Does it need to?
No.
But nomatter, this is a load of barmy old cack, and if you don't like that then you can just read it and forget it...but some may find it interesting.
Here we go I guess...
Every d-mod is the same, with the same puzzles, enemies, plots and endings : There is nothing new and nothing inventive inthis community. Harsh words you may say, but to a large degree it is true.
O.K, so the limits of the Dink engine and the inability to create new graphics many Dinkers have (including me)limits the horizons a little, and it all gets a bit formulaic...it always has been with Dink.
Inevitably, Dink is the hero. He must hack some enemies up (boncas, pillbugs or slayers_ to gain money to buy an item. The item lets him into a new area, with slightly harder monsters. You do that, and the evil wizard who has stolen your pig/wife/girlfriend/virginity must then be killed...or a enemy that is...how scary is this?...BIGGER THAN NORMAL!
All the same, bar the occasional new spell, or small twist.
"Cloud Castle"? Complete rubbish! What, Dink has another new house, people are missing, there is an evil wizard behind it. You must find get some gold to buy an item, and find a few more. Then you move onto the next area, have to fight some more enemies, before fighting the wizard.
It's the most predictable d-mod that has ever been...you could tell the end before the game started!
But this, like many other d-mods, is all hidden behind a few "glossy tricks" - none of which would work without the others. A slightly different conversation style, a couple of fancy fights, a couple of gimmicky bosses. What is with this?
And all the other d-mods are the same, not branching out from the formular that has and always will be on the network.
Not only "Cloud Castle" hides it's faults like this, and download 5 random d-mods and 4 will follow this formula.
Maybe I have been a bit harsh though, some d-mod authors are still pushing the Dink engine about as if they own the thing. Redink has shown invention many a time, and has not only had you skipping about time with different characters (and no Dink) in "Cycles of Evil", but wandering about his basement in "Explorations"!!.
Paul Pliska broke the mould when his game "Lyna's Story" not only had a girl as the main character, but had a completely open game structure.
Even all that time ago, Gary Hertal had Dink morphing into other characters - which has not been replicated, and has not advanced for how many years?
Some are still changing, and evolving the Dink network, but how many, and how slowly?
A few promising games that would bend the mechanics of the Dink Engine have been announced, but not released (such as "SpookHouse", and theprophets racing game) whilst others have arrived but without any polish or pinache, such as "DinkRacer".
While we have small innovations every so often, a whole lot arrives when a game such as "FIAT" or "Pilgrims Quest" and these few d-mods blow everybody away, and inspire then to make the next super-game.
Will Dink get out of this trend of rigid thinking and similar games? No. Does it need to?
No.
Please...
Blog it!
I'll see what I can do about convincing the higher beings to add a blog comments system. This is driving me insane...
Blog it!
I'll see what I can do about convincing the higher beings to add a blog comments system. This is driving me insane...
I don't mean to be rude, and this will sound she-dog-y when it's not supposed to, but...
Will Dink get out of this trend of rigid thinking and similar games? No.
What was the point of writing that thing if you just nullified everything you said? It's like saying, "I hate cheese. Let's ban cheese forever. But do we need to ban cheese? Let's not ban cheese." Kind of a weird example, but... if you're gonna write an unblogged article and drive Tal mad, then at least make sure it has a point.
Will Dink get out of this trend of rigid thinking and similar games? No.
What was the point of writing that thing if you just nullified everything you said? It's like saying, "I hate cheese. Let's ban cheese forever. But do we need to ban cheese? Let's not ban cheese." Kind of a weird example, but... if you're gonna write an unblogged article and drive Tal mad, then at least make sure it has a point.
Testing board.
[i]testing exteremely log italics posting since redink can not code and tal thinks there is a bug. The life of me blows, I know.[/i]
[i]testing exteremely log italics posting since redink can not code and tal thinks there is a bug. The life of me blows, I know.[/i]
Dude. You're like a fellow who says that there is no carrot that is longer than 7 inches. Then some farmer spends years cross-breeding various carrots to create the Uber Carrot: 7.2 inches. He is happy to have finally satisfied your unquenchable thirst, but what do you do? You now assert that there is no carrot longer than 7.2 inches, completely unfazed by the fact that you just have to alter your view a little bit so it remains pretty much the same.
Ok, maybe that doesn't make much sense. Maybe it would've been better if I used a Banana instead of a Carrot. Here's another example:
Say there is a fellow who made a Half-Life mod. His name was SwordFish. He comes to a startling (to himself) realization that all Half-Life mods are just walk around and shoot things. Oh, sure, there are a few that don't have any walking or shooting, but that's what the majority are. So he decides to rant on about it, oblivious to the fact that it is such a common idea that he simply doesn't see it. If you make a Mod for a FPS, chances are the Mod is going to be a *bleeping* FPS.
I mean, come on, Sabre. We make Dink modules. Dink Smallwood isn't an end-all be-all development kit for use in all sorts of endevours: it was specifically made for Zelda-style RPG games. Yes, there are those who try to push it a little bit (ala Dinkanoid et al) but as you said, those are rare.
Its like saying, "By george, that there cheese factory only makes cheese? What the fudge is wrong with them?"
I mean, as soon as someone introduces a new and exciting element to D-Mod creation, you can just include that in your list of things that All D-Mods Do. Eventually, if we were all immortal and such, it'd get to the point where you'd be ranting about how All D-Mods force you to use a combination of input devices (mouse, keyboard, joystick) to control something that you see on the screen. Do you see how utterly pointless it is yet?
Ok, maybe that doesn't make much sense. Maybe it would've been better if I used a Banana instead of a Carrot. Here's another example:
Say there is a fellow who made a Half-Life mod. His name was SwordFish. He comes to a startling (to himself) realization that all Half-Life mods are just walk around and shoot things. Oh, sure, there are a few that don't have any walking or shooting, but that's what the majority are. So he decides to rant on about it, oblivious to the fact that it is such a common idea that he simply doesn't see it. If you make a Mod for a FPS, chances are the Mod is going to be a *bleeping* FPS.
I mean, come on, Sabre. We make Dink modules. Dink Smallwood isn't an end-all be-all development kit for use in all sorts of endevours: it was specifically made for Zelda-style RPG games. Yes, there are those who try to push it a little bit (ala Dinkanoid et al) but as you said, those are rare.
Its like saying, "By george, that there cheese factory only makes cheese? What the fudge is wrong with them?"
I mean, as soon as someone introduces a new and exciting element to D-Mod creation, you can just include that in your list of things that All D-Mods Do. Eventually, if we were all immortal and such, it'd get to the point where you'd be ranting about how All D-Mods force you to use a combination of input devices (mouse, keyboard, joystick) to control something that you see on the screen. Do you see how utterly pointless it is yet?
Every d-mod is the same, with the same puzzles, enemies, plots and endings : There is nothing new and nothing inventive inthis community. Harsh words you may say, but to a large degree it is true.
This is <u>not</u> true. If that's true, then why are we still releasing dmods? They are all the same, so why bother?
Maybe I have been a bit harsh though, some d-mod authors are still pushing the Dink engine about as if they own the thing. Redink has shown invention many a time, and has not only had you skipping about time with different characters (and no Dink) in "Cycles of Evil", but wandering about his basement in "Explorations"!!.
I am making a dmod, just like his "explorations" dmod, but is it the same? <u>NO</u>
I can drop the project, because its a point-and-click dmod too, but I don't, because I always tried and still am trying to make *new* stuff with the dink engine. Remember the 3D space shooter I talked about? I could have finished it, but why didnt I? Because it sucked, the engine isnt made for it, so the graphics were ugly, shooting the
planes is too difficult, and sometimes
the graphics were above the crosshair, so you couldnt attack it.
A few promising games that would bend the mechanics of the Dink Engine have been announced, but not released (such as "SpookHouse", and theprophets racing game) whilst others have arrived but without any polish or pinache, such as "DinkRacer".
It's true, ive anounced it, but I also dropped it, why:
Because it was boring, the cars stopped
when you released the button and
no crashes, no damage.
I still have it, 1 level is done
and you can drive 3 laps and then the
other AI cars stops and you can continue.
This is <u>not</u> true. If that's true, then why are we still releasing dmods? They are all the same, so why bother?
Maybe I have been a bit harsh though, some d-mod authors are still pushing the Dink engine about as if they own the thing. Redink has shown invention many a time, and has not only had you skipping about time with different characters (and no Dink) in "Cycles of Evil", but wandering about his basement in "Explorations"!!.
I am making a dmod, just like his "explorations" dmod, but is it the same? <u>NO</u>
I can drop the project, because its a point-and-click dmod too, but I don't, because I always tried and still am trying to make *new* stuff with the dink engine. Remember the 3D space shooter I talked about? I could have finished it, but why didnt I? Because it sucked, the engine isnt made for it, so the graphics were ugly, shooting the
planes is too difficult, and sometimes
the graphics were above the crosshair, so you couldnt attack it.
A few promising games that would bend the mechanics of the Dink Engine have been announced, but not released (such as "SpookHouse", and theprophets racing game) whilst others have arrived but without any polish or pinache, such as "DinkRacer".
It's true, ive anounced it, but I also dropped it, why:
Because it was boring, the cars stopped
when you released the button and
no crashes, no damage.
I still have it, 1 level is done
and you can drive 3 laps and then the
other AI cars stops and you can continue.
Redink...WC dared me to say you are boring and to shut up, and since it is Dare Day In Ontario, I am afraid I had to do it.
>^..^<
>^..^<
Hmmm...I think maybe you all miss the point, and if not, obviously just don't view it in the way I was on my (very bored) ramble.
While I sort of agree with some of the things I said...this article wasn't particularly serious. It's not like I'm saying that everything is exactly the same in every way, but is very similar in every aspect, unless there is some sort of innovation brought about by the author.
It was all a bit of a piss-take really..."Sabre's Say #237"? Please...
While I sort of agree with some of the things I said...this article wasn't particularly serious. It's not like I'm saying that everything is exactly the same in every way, but is very similar in every aspect, unless there is some sort of innovation brought about by the author.
It was all a bit of a piss-take really..."Sabre's Say #237"? Please...
I realized that it wasn't that serious... hence Carrots, Bananas, Cheese, etc. were found in my reply.
I could see you were taking things with a pinch of salt Redink, and I hope the others were too!
As an example, Alli says I have nullififed everything I have previously said, but I would say I have proved what I wasn't saying.
As an example, Alli says I have nullififed everything I have previously said, but I would say I have proved what I wasn't saying.
Well sorry to say but this game cant handle anything more then kill the wizard quest.This game is long due for a proper burial unless theres gona be a new engine im not expecting much more then the "Kill the wizard" Quest.
I guess every adventure is the same, whether it's in movies, books, games... whatever. It's always the same: something happened or is going to happen that someone doesn't like and while this someone is trying to prevent that from happening or trying to solve it, somebody else is trying to prevent this someone from doing so.
In general, yes. Any story worth anything needs to have a protaganist working for something or is in conflict with something(antagonist) whether it is god or society, ideals, people, etc. I believe it applies to every story I have ever known.
Once upon a time a birdy flew south and got shot by hillbilly.
The good guy((maybe not birds are pretty evil especialy when they poop on you while your trying to get a coke from vending machine)) birdy
The bad guy ((in most cases there bad but in cases like above there good since they kill the birds that take a poop on your head)):hillbilly
Theres a story without a good storyline and with not plot but its still a story with conflict.
And when theres no conflict well it would suck in life ((everyone runing with rocket launchers blowing up your new car every 2 seconds)) and in TV ((think barney on 400 channels)) and Games ((think of the 4th grade stuff where u learn the wonders of patterns))
The good guy((maybe not birds are pretty evil especialy when they poop on you while your trying to get a coke from vending machine)) birdy
The bad guy ((in most cases there bad but in cases like above there good since they kill the birds that take a poop on your head)):hillbilly
Theres a story without a good storyline and with not plot but its still a story with conflict.
And when theres no conflict well it would suck in life ((everyone runing with rocket launchers blowing up your new car every 2 seconds)) and in TV ((think barney on 400 channels)) and Games ((think of the 4th grade stuff where u learn the wonders of patterns))
Lavrik : Shut up.
The reason Dink has not died and is not past it, is because NO game (not even "Neverwinter Nights") can rival it fo it's editors ease of use, and the extremely friendly community.
Dink won't die for years, or I'll eat my hat (which is very big and disgusting due to having never been washed).
The reason Dink has not died and is not past it, is because NO game (not even "Neverwinter Nights") can rival it fo it's editors ease of use, and the extremely friendly community.
Dink won't die for years, or I'll eat my hat (which is very big and disgusting due to having never been washed).
Oh, and by the Allikitten, the article has got quite a strong point, but you must have missed it.
"Will Dink get out of this trend of rigid thinking and similar games? No." How does that nullify anything I have said? I haven't said it will get out of this rigid thinking, so this comment does nothing to nullify my point.
And the point is..."Does it need to? No"
"Will Dink get out of this trend of rigid thinking and similar games? No." How does that nullify anything I have said? I haven't said it will get out of this rigid thinking, so this comment does nothing to nullify my point.
And the point is..."Does it need to? No"
[i]"this article wasn't particularly serious"
"It was all a bit of a piss-take really...'Sabre's Say #237'? Please..."[/i]
Whatever, Sabre. That's what I say when I realize my articles are a bag o' crap.
"It was all a bit of a piss-take really...'Sabre's Say #237'? Please..."[/i]
Whatever, Sabre. That's what I say when I realize my articles are a bag o' crap.
Ah... It makes me want to continue on Dink Racer again.
*sigh* No, what you call "the point": Does it need to? No. nullifies everything you said before.
To quote you:
Every d-mod is the same, with the same puzzles, enemies, plots and endings : There is nothing new and nothing inventive inthis community. Harsh words you may say, but to a large degree it is true.
So you're whining about how everything is the same. (And don't say you weren't whining; if you weren't, you wouldn't have declared the aforementioned statement "harsh".)
Generally, if you're whining about something, you want something to change. You spend the *whole* article ranting about how everything is the same, some people cover it up, but everything is still the same... and at the end you say it's ok for everything to be the same. Great, well, what's the point of reading the article then, if you've just taken your only point (dink is all the same) and made it irrelevent by saying it's ok to be all the same? To me, it just amounts to having it be all one big waste of time.
Eh. That probably sounds like I'm flaming you. I'm not. Honestly.
To quote you:
Every d-mod is the same, with the same puzzles, enemies, plots and endings : There is nothing new and nothing inventive inthis community. Harsh words you may say, but to a large degree it is true.
So you're whining about how everything is the same.
(And don't say you weren't whining; if you weren't, you wouldn't have declared the aforementioned statement "harsh".)Generally, if you're whining about something, you want something to change. You spend the *whole* article ranting about how everything is the same, some people cover it up, but everything is still the same... and at the end you say it's ok for everything to be the same. Great, well, what's the point of reading the article then, if you've just taken your only point (dink is all the same) and made it irrelevent by saying it's ok to be all the same? To me, it just amounts to having it be all one big waste of time.
Eh. That probably sounds like I'm flaming you. I'm not. Honestly.
Tal : True, but I would have thought that my article was pretty obvious in it's silly nature.
Alli : Don't worry about it sounding like flames, that's the way all "discussions" do on the net.
but what I would say to you is that I can't be whining as such when I disregard what I have said- call it a stupid pointless article, but don't say I'm whining about everything being the same, when I clearly make out that is an OK thing.
And one point (I thought more would have noticed it...I suspect Redink might...though I could be wrong) that I was making was the, as you say, complete pointlessness of these articles made by non-staff. Hence it being #237, hence it's completely pointless nature, hence it rambling on, only to nullify itself at the end - A bit of a parody, if you will - more jibing at Icey and his articles (admittedly, a bit too covertly) then trying to make a point myself.
Saying that, have you never seen anything like this, where a large point is made, yet disregarded at the end as silly? My point would be that Dink is all the same, but that is not a bad thing...but I was tired and couldn't find the drive to say it in a more elaborate manner.
But essentially, this article was meant to show how silly these articles are...leave them to the pro's people.
Alli : Don't worry about it sounding like flames, that's the way all "discussions" do on the net.
but what I would say to you is that I can't be whining as such when I disregard what I have said- call it a stupid pointless article, but don't say I'm whining about everything being the same, when I clearly make out that is an OK thing.
And one point (I thought more would have noticed it...I suspect Redink might...though I could be wrong) that I was making was the, as you say, complete pointlessness of these articles made by non-staff. Hence it being #237, hence it's completely pointless nature, hence it rambling on, only to nullify itself at the end - A bit of a parody, if you will - more jibing at Icey and his articles (admittedly, a bit too covertly) then trying to make a point myself.
Saying that, have you never seen anything like this, where a large point is made, yet disregarded at the end as silly? My point would be that Dink is all the same, but that is not a bad thing...but I was tired and couldn't find the drive to say it in a more elaborate manner.
But essentially, this article was meant to show how silly these articles are...leave them to the pro's people.
Having just read this thread, has anybody got an ACME Suicide Kit I can borrow?
Sorry about the thread-bumping, by the way.
Sorry about the thread-bumping, by the way.
