Reply to Re: Epic length
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I don't really get why recently this has been such a big problem for people all of a sudden. We've gone 17 years without any problem in determining what is an Epic and what is not. I think some people here recently are starting to think a bit too highly of their work. And I'm not saying Epics are better than the rest (hell, HH1 & HH2 are nowhere near the quality of Malachi), but I think it's become an obsession to some people who'd like their work to be included among the "big D-Mods". Malachi the Jerk is not an Epic, and that's that. It's a great D-Mod, but it doesn't come anywhere close to what have been the standard sizes for Epic after Pilgrim's Quest (or even before, really). I've seen some other D-Mods that are currently in the makings too, that are much bigger than Malachi but still don't really seem like Epics to me (even though they're being promised as that). If we get to the very bottom of things, what do I think are the things that determine an Epic?
1) The length of the main storyline: I think this might be the most important thing. The time you spend from starting the game, to getting to the end credits during your first playthrough. If it takes more than 4 hours, yes, I think it can be counted as an Epic. But this goes for just the main storyline and scenes that move the story forward. NPC conversations, over-lengthy dialogue and side-quests are just a nice plus, that should contribute to the already big adventure. I think this is the biggest reason why Malachi, for example, can't be counted as an Epic. It's longer than some Epics, but only if you count EVERYTHING. But if you leave out the parts that don't actually anyhow progress the main story, it's probably only around 2 hours long.
2) The size of the map: Epics need to have a big world to explore, around the size of the original game's map or larger. Something like Initiation, for example, has a map barely bigger than some Romps I've seen. This is one of the biggest reasons why I wouldn't count it as an Epic.
3) The feel: This is what Metatarasal spoke about earlier. There's just a certain different "feel" to Epics, than there is to other D-Mods. I don't really know how to describe that feel. Just that it's something bigger than most D-Mods. I guess the best way to describe it would be that you're feeling like you're playing a game the size of which could've officially been sold in a store, instead of a community made add-on (remember, not talking about the quality. But the size).
4) The time it was released: Yes, I think the time period the D-Mod was released in does matter. I'm saying this because some D-Mods from back then wouldn't probably be accepted as Epics within the modern community. But making D-Mods was much harder back then, and it was rarer to see big D-Mods. Do you really wanna go back and change what category those D-Mods belong to, after 12 to 15 years? Times were different back then, and I don't think it's fair to go back now and change their category, just cause modern Epics might be bigger than some of the older ones. That's simply to be expected. Just like the improvement in quality is to be expected. Quest for Cheese has horrible quality by today's standards, but do you still wanna go back and give it a crap score, just because a D-Mod from back then can not compete with a D-Mod from today? I doubt it.
So that's my 2 cents, and last thing I have to say about this thing. I think those are the most important things that matter when it comes to determining what is an Epic D-Mod and what is not. You can't just look at one of those things. You have to look at all of them together. And no, this isn't about my ego and trying to appear super-amazing or something just cause I made two Epics. I don't think they're even that good D-Mods honestly, but they do belong in the Epic category, which is why it kinda stings that suddenly much smaller D-Mods that have never gotten into that category before, are being said to belong amongst them.
1) The length of the main storyline: I think this might be the most important thing. The time you spend from starting the game, to getting to the end credits during your first playthrough. If it takes more than 4 hours, yes, I think it can be counted as an Epic. But this goes for just the main storyline and scenes that move the story forward. NPC conversations, over-lengthy dialogue and side-quests are just a nice plus, that should contribute to the already big adventure. I think this is the biggest reason why Malachi, for example, can't be counted as an Epic. It's longer than some Epics, but only if you count EVERYTHING. But if you leave out the parts that don't actually anyhow progress the main story, it's probably only around 2 hours long.
2) The size of the map: Epics need to have a big world to explore, around the size of the original game's map or larger. Something like Initiation, for example, has a map barely bigger than some Romps I've seen. This is one of the biggest reasons why I wouldn't count it as an Epic.
3) The feel: This is what Metatarasal spoke about earlier. There's just a certain different "feel" to Epics, than there is to other D-Mods. I don't really know how to describe that feel. Just that it's something bigger than most D-Mods. I guess the best way to describe it would be that you're feeling like you're playing a game the size of which could've officially been sold in a store, instead of a community made add-on (remember, not talking about the quality. But the size).
4) The time it was released: Yes, I think the time period the D-Mod was released in does matter. I'm saying this because some D-Mods from back then wouldn't probably be accepted as Epics within the modern community. But making D-Mods was much harder back then, and it was rarer to see big D-Mods. Do you really wanna go back and change what category those D-Mods belong to, after 12 to 15 years? Times were different back then, and I don't think it's fair to go back now and change their category, just cause modern Epics might be bigger than some of the older ones. That's simply to be expected. Just like the improvement in quality is to be expected. Quest for Cheese has horrible quality by today's standards, but do you still wanna go back and give it a crap score, just because a D-Mod from back then can not compete with a D-Mod from today? I doubt it.
So that's my 2 cents, and last thing I have to say about this thing. I think those are the most important things that matter when it comes to determining what is an Epic D-Mod and what is not. You can't just look at one of those things. You have to look at all of them together. And no, this isn't about my ego and trying to appear super-amazing or something just cause I made two Epics. I don't think they're even that good D-Mods honestly, but they do belong in the Epic category, which is why it kinda stings that suddenly much smaller D-Mods that have never gotten into that category before, are being said to belong amongst them.
