The Dink Network

FInally! results!

November 10th 2002, 04:25 PM
stonegiant.gif


OK, some of you know that I have been working on a small program to convert batches of images to the dink palette. well, i finally completed my first test!!

THe only problem is, i have no idea how the first resulkts compare with using adobe photoshop...

I have _just_ converted the palette, no other operations at this stage. i could apply some enhancment filters, maybe a slight blur, and then a sharpen?? i don't know, please tell me what you think! the two pictures are:

http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/one.bmp (the original file)

and

http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/one1.bmp (the converted image)

maybe someone could download one.bmp and convert it with something else, and post it, so i can compare results??

thanks...
November 10th 2002, 05:38 PM
custom_king.png
redink1
King He/Him United States bloop
A mother ducking wizard 
: OK, some of you know that I have been working on a small program to convert batches of images to the dink palette. well, i finally completed my first test!!

: THe only problem is, i have no idea how the first resulkts compare with using adobe photoshop...

: I have _just_ converted the palette, no other operations at this stage. i could apply some enhancment filters, maybe a slight blur, and then a sharpen?? i don't know, please tell me what you think! the two pictures are:

: http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/one.bmp (the original file)

: and

: http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/one1.bmp (the converted image)

: maybe someone could download one.bmp and convert it with something else, and post it, so i can compare results??

: thanks...

It looks like your thing maintains indexes... which is bad. Essentially, it is harder than it seems... you have to do nearest-color matching. So you have to figure out, say, that from the source bmp pallete index 00 matches pallete index F2 in the Dink pallete.

This is what Photoshop does: http://www.dinknetwork.com/screenshots/one2.bmp

Just curious... why are you doing this? I'm all for competition and everything, but DinkersPal was released over a month ago, and does the same thing
November 10th 2002, 06:10 PM
stonegiant.gif
: : OK, some of you know that I have been working on a small program to convert batches of images to the dink palette. well, i finally completed my first test!!

: : THe only problem is, i have no idea how the first resulkts compare with using adobe photoshop...

: : I have _just_ converted the palette, no other operations at this stage. i could apply some enhancment filters, maybe a slight blur, and then a sharpen?? i don't know, please tell me what you think! the two pictures are:

: : http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/one.bmp (the original file)

: : and

: : http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/one1.bmp (the converted image)

: : maybe someone could download one.bmp and convert it with something else, and post it, so i can compare results??

: : thanks...

: It looks like your thing maintains indexes... which is bad. Essentially, it is harder than it seems... you have to do nearest-color matching. So you have to figure out, say, that from the source bmp pallete index 00 matches pallete index F2 in the Dink pallete.

: This is what Photoshop does: http://www.dinknetwork.com/screenshots/one2.bmp

: Just curious... why are you doing this? I'm all for competition and everything, but DinkersPal was released over a month ago, and does the same thing

mainly to learn the python imaging library. besides this MAY be usefull to people....maybe...
November 10th 2002, 06:38 PM
pillbug.gif


: mainly to learn the python imaging library. besides this MAY be usefull to people....maybe...

Actully this would come in very handy for me i've been looking for something like this for a long while now
November 10th 2002, 08:55 PM
pq_skard.gif
: OK, some of you know that I have been working on a small program to convert batches of images to the dink palette. well, i finally completed my first test!!

: THe only problem is, i have no idea how the first resulkts compare with using adobe photoshop...

: I have _just_ converted the palette, no other operations at this stage. i could apply some enhancment filters, maybe a slight blur, and then a sharpen?? i don't know, please tell me what you think! the two pictures are:

: http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/one.bmp (the original file)

: and

: http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/one1.bmp (the converted image)

: maybe someone could download one.bmp and convert it with something else, and post it, so i can compare results??

: thanks...

I converted the image using 3 different programs (PaintShop Pro 7, MGI PhotoSuite & an obscure program called 20/20). MGI wouldn't do the conversion! It still had the original image I used from Dink. Oh well. The results are on the web at these addresses:

http://www.footnook.com/dink/psp7.bmp

http://www.footnook.com/dink/mgi.bmp <-- still the rock from Dink

http://www.footnook.com/dink/2020.bmp <-- did the best!

Hope this helps you!

November 11th 2002, 02:10 AM
stonegiant.gif
: : mainly to learn the python imaging library. besides this MAY be usefull to people....maybe...

: Actully this would come in very handy for me i've been looking for something like this for a long while now

really?? well, I'll take a closer look at conversion algorithms... I have the ability to look at each pixel individually, so i could allways try to make my own... you never know, i might even come up with something half way decent..

I'd love to know what dinkerspal is written in...
November 11th 2002, 04:14 AM
custom_king.png
redink1
King He/Him United States bloop
A mother ducking wizard 
: I converted the image using 3 different programs (PaintShop Pro 7, MGI PhotoSuite & an obscure program called 20/20).  MGI wouldn't do the conversion!  It still had the original image I used from Dink.  Oh well.  The results are on the web at these addresses:

: http://www.footnook.com/dink/psp7.bmp

: http://www.footnook.com/dink/mgi.bmp  <-- still the rock from Dink

: http://www.footnook.com/dink/2020.bmp    <-- did the best!

: Hope this helps you!  

20/20 didn't convert it at all... it is at least a 16-bit color bmp, and doesn't use the Dink pallete
November 11th 2002, 10:18 AM
pq_skard.gif
: : I converted the image using 3 different programs (PaintShop Pro 7, MGI PhotoSuite & an obscure program called 20/20).  MGI wouldn't do the conversion!  It still had the original image I used from Dink.  Oh well.  The results are on the web at these addresses:

: : http://www.footnook.com/dink/psp7.bmp

: : http://www.footnook.com/dink/mgi.bmp  <-- still the rock from Dink

: : http://www.footnook.com/dink/2020.bmp    <-- did the best!

: : Hope this helps you!  

: 20/20 didn't convert it at all... it is at least a 16-bit color bmp, and doesn't use the Dink pallete

My fault.

November 12th 2002, 02:29 AM
stonegiant.gif
Just a small update:

i decided to make my own algorithm, by first reading the palette from the splash screen, and then doing the following, for each individual pixel in the file i was trying to convert:

I mapped the color of the pixel in a 3D space, using the RGB values, instead of XYZ. then i calculated the distance between that point, and every color in the palette mapped in the same way. The color from the palette which was the closest in this way replaced the pixel from the original file. The results??

some wierd s**t is going on... My images are really wierd, like all green and brown, So i think there has been a mistake in my algorithm, maybe the bit about calculating the distance between two points in a 3D space, but I'll have a play...

Does anyone know where i can find some detailed information about how some of the other algorithms out there work?? It's be very interesting to see if i could emulate them, and twek them for use with dink. Despite it's difficult maths, it's a fun problem to solve...

any ideas??

does this look right?

distance between any two points = sqrt((x-x1)^2 * (y-y1)^2 * (z-z1)^2)

i got that from my physics textbooks, but it doesnt seem to be working.

any feedback s most welcome...
November 12th 2002, 03:04 AM
stonegiant.gif
OMG!! we've all been duped!! I just ran a small count on the number of colors in the splash screen, guess how many:

174!!

WTF is going on here??

i also tried the editor splash screen, and that has 233 colors on it... hmmmmmmmm..

my suspicions are deepened by the fact that there don't seem to be any bright reds in the splash screen. Now I'm really confused.. any ideas??
November 12th 2002, 03:44 AM
custom_king.png
redink1
King He/Him United States bloop
A mother ducking wizard 
: OMG!! we've all been duped!! I just ran a small count on the number of colors in the splash screen, guess how many:

: 174!!

: WTF is going on here??

: i also tried the editor splash screen, and that has 233 colors on it... hmmmmmmmm..

: my suspicions are deepened by the fact that there don't seem to be any bright reds in the splash screen. Now I'm really confused.. any ideas??

You must be doing something really, really, really wrong.

True, esplash.bmp has some issues... but splash.bmp and the rest of the tiles should be fine.

You do know how the 256 color bmp file format is done, right? The first 54 bytes control the header of it, which has such fun things as the file size, dimensions, etc. in it.

Then the next 1024 bytes is the pallete... each pallete entry takes up 4 bytes, one for red, one for green, one for blue, and a blank byte.

Then after that, the bmp stores the lowest line of the bmp, referencing the color in the pallete with a simple byte.

All of that was done by the wonders of reverse engineering a while ago... but I'm sure there are much more detailed explanations around the web.

I'm not sure what you're doing... but splash.bmp definately has a 256 color pallete. It might not use all of the colors in it... but it is still there.
November 12th 2002, 06:23 AM
fish.gif
: does this look right?

: distance between any two points = sqrt((x-x1)^2 * (y-y1)^2 * (z-z1)^2)

I'm not sure if your algorithm would work, but your equation is wrong (or at least you typed it wrong). Distance between any two points should be sqrt((x-x1)^2 + (y-y1)^2 + (z-z1)^2).

November 12th 2002, 03:26 PM
stonegiant.gif
: : does this look right?

: : distance between any two points = sqrt((x-x1)^2 * (y-y1)^2 * (z-z1)^2)

: I'm not sure if your algorithm would work, but your equation is wrong (or at least you typed it wrong). Distance between any two points should be sqrt((x-x1)^2 + (y-y1)^2 + (z-z1)^2).

Ahuh!! thats where i was going wrong...

And redink, i trusted the python imaging library... does anyone have a list of colors in RGB format which the palette allows?? i need them in raw format, see?
November 12th 2002, 03:56 PM
custom_king.png
redink1
King He/Him United States bloop
A mother ducking wizard 
: : : does this look right?

: : : distance between any two points = sqrt((x-x1)^2 * (y-y1)^2 * (z-z1)^2)

: : I'm not sure if your algorithm would work, but your equation is wrong (or at least you typed it wrong). Distance between any two points should be sqrt((x-x1)^2 + (y-y1)^2 + (z-z1)^2).

: Ahuh!! thats where i was going wrong...

: And redink, i trusted the python imaging library... does anyone have a list of colors in RGB format which the palette allows?? i need them in raw format, see?

I just checked esplash.bmp, and it has the same exact pallete as splash.bmp...

But, in reality, the Python imaging library is probably correct... I think you're wrong I'm guessing you're calling the function to count the colors in the image... neither splash.bmp or esplash.bmp use all 256 colors in the pallete, so you would never get 256 as a return value.

As for the bmp pallete in raw format... just use a hex editor and tada. It isn't too hard
November 12th 2002, 04:55 PM
wizardg.gif
Paul
Peasant He/Him United States
 
: : : does this look right?

: : : distance between any two points = sqrt((x-x1)^2 * (y-y1)^2 * (z-z1)^2)

: : I'm not sure if your algorithm would work, but your equation is wrong (or at least you typed it wrong). Distance between any two points should be sqrt((x-x1)^2 + (y-y1)^2 + (z-z1)^2).

: Ahuh!! thats where i was going wrong...

: And redink, i trusted the python imaging library... does anyone have a list of colors in RGB format which the palette allows?? i need them in raw format, see?

Here's the pelette file generated by PSP. It's RGB

JASC-PAL

0100

256

255 255 255

255 255 202

255 255 2

255 247 148

255 231 165

255 231 115

255 222 148

255 206 107

255 198 255

255 189 82

255 181 49

255 179 179

255 156 74

255 140 57

255 140 24

255 132 132

255 125 0

255 107 45

255 64 64

255 0 0

251 69 0

247 255 148

247 214 107

247 206 173

247 189 107

247 173 115

239 222 123

231 206 90

231 189 156

231 49 4

222 222 222

222 198 99

222 189 165

222 173 255

222 173 90

215 200 200

214 239 115

214 231 181

214 206 115

214 165 132

214 148 66

206 184 132

206 181 181

206 181 95

206 115 49

206 107 231

198 222 107

198 165 140

198 165 82

198 148 255

198 140 82

198 49 8

198 33 0

189 206 165

189 181 165

189 173 99

189 173 74

189 123 82

187 208 82

181 231 255

181 189 206

181 156 148

181 156 74

181 148 115

181 132 255

181 119 62

179 0 0

177 103 37

173 189 140

173 181 189

173 173 148

173 165 123

173 107 57

169 218 231

169 140 29

167 167 167

165 189 198

165 173 74

165 156 90

165 156 74

165 148 66

165 140 62

165 115 247

165 115 82

165 82 24

165 49 16

165 8 8

156 206 255

156 173 115

156 148 123

156 148 107

156 140 99

156 90 41

153 213 227

148 198 255

148 181 189

148 173 49

148 132 115

140 189 255

140 173 231

140 165 123

140 156 107

140 132 140

140 132 99

140 123 57

140 115 82

140 115 66

140 90 57

140 82 33

140 49 165

132 181 74

132 156 132

132 152 169

132 115 16

132 90 206

132 82 222

132 0 0

129 66 20

125 0 255

123 140 49

123 132 99

123 123 107

123 115 49

123 107 41

123 82 189

123 82 41

123 74 198

123 24 148

115 173 255

115 165 173

115 148 148

115 148 90

115 132 16

115 115 90

115 107 115

115 99 148

115 99 66

115 90 74

115 82 57

115 74 189

115 66 33

115 41 41

115 16 16

111 152 169

111 111 111

107 148 74

107 123 132

107 107 99

107 107 74

107 107 66

107 49 49

103 136 136

99 222 247

99 156 231

99 148 49

99 132 140

99 132 74

99 123 82

99 107 41

99 90 82

99 66 41

99 57 165

99 8 123

90 123 49

90 107 115

90 107 8

90 99 123

90 99 49

90 90 198

90 90 66

90 82 66

90 82 33

90 74 57

90 49 8

90 8 8

90 0 0

82 140 222

82 123 181

82 115 156

82 115 123

82 115 66

82 107 115

82 90 0

82 74 132

82 45 29

82 33 0

78 103 49

74 115 189

74 99 57

74 90 123

74 90 49

74 82 57

74 74 33

74 66 41

74 49 123

74 41 90

74 0 99

73 89 106

71 100 106

70 95 103

70 86 37

66 107 165

66 107 156

66 103 140

66 8 8

62 70 37

57 99 24

57 82 82

57 66 0

57 57 37

57 49 24

57 41 107

57 33 16

57 24 82

57 24 0

55 55 55

49 90 140

49 74 74

49 74 41

49 74 24

49 66 24

49 57 66

49 41 24

49 0 0

45 90 132

41 90 132

41 74 115

41 57 90

41 57 66

41 49 57

41 0 49

37 70 115

37 53 20

33 156 181

33 57 82

33 41 16

33 33 99

33 33 24

33 24 57

33 24 16

26 1 33

24 132 156

24 74 132

24 41 49

24 16 8

20 28 4

16 90 115

16 57 99

16 49 90

16 0 0

8 16 0

8 8 66

0 255 0

0 44 77

0 0 255

0 0 0

If that doesn't help I could also send you a bmp that really does use all the colors.
November 13th 2002, 04:06 PM
stonegiant.gif


: If that doesn't help I could also send you a bmp that really does use all the colors.

wow! you'rew a god!!

thanks for that, but yes please, could you send me that image, I'd be most appreciative, and I'll put both you're names in the credits. I have to get this part working, and then build a GUI around it, and then tweak my algorithm to give me the best results, then guess I'll release it... I may even get it made into an official debian package... Not that I'm supposed to talk about LINUX here..
November 14th 2002, 01:28 AM
stonegiant.gif
ok, cancel that, i got it sorted out anyways

whats more, the results are really good! here are some URL's to compare them. could someone do the photoshop thing, and see what the difference is?:

http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/test.jpg <original

http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/test-converted.bmp

Now even if i say so myself, that is some pretty good results. haven't actually tested it in dink yet, see my other current forum thread
November 14th 2002, 08:44 PM
custom_king.png
redink1
King He/Him United States bloop
A mother ducking wizard 
: ok, cancel that, i got it sorted out anyways

: whats more, the results are really good! here are some URL's to compare them. could someone do the photoshop thing, and see what the difference is?:

: http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/test.jpg <original

: http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/test-converted.bmp

: Now even if i say so myself, that is some pretty good results. haven't actually tested it in dink yet, see my other current forum thread

You seemed to have succeeded in reducing the colors to the Dink Pallete... but its still a 24-bit color bmp, not a 256 color pallete-ized one.
November 15th 2002, 01:50 PM
stonegiant.gif
: : ok, cancel that, i got it sorted out anyways

: : whats more, the results are really good! here are some URL's to compare them. could someone do the photoshop thing, and see what the difference is?:

: : http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/test.jpg <original

: : http://thomi.imail.net.nz/other/test-converted.bmp

: : Now even if i say so myself, that is some pretty good results. haven't actually tested it in dink yet, see my other current forum thread

: You seemed to have succeeded in reducing the colors to the Dink Pallete... but its still a 24-bit color bmp, not a 256 color pallete-ized one.

thats easy enough to fix. i just change the line:

im.save('%s-converted.bmp','RGB')

to:

im.save(%s-converted.bmp','P')

how does it compare with photoshop? i could tweak it a little...