Re: Opera9 Browser
Has anyone tried this Opera9 Browser? If so, what did you think of it?
I tried a test version of it. It was okay. Sorry that's about all I have to say about it since I still prefer Firefox, especially with 2.0 not being far off now.
I don't see how version number would matter on how much you like a browser, but ah well.
I'll stick to FF, thanks. Got this baby all completely configured and I don't wanna take the effort to port all that stuff to other browsers.
I'll stick to FF, thanks. Got this baby all completely configured and I don't wanna take the effort to port all that stuff to other browsers.
Yup, I've tried it. However, like all the others who have replied in this thread thus far, I prefer Firefox. (However, I keep all common browsers installed, as I am a web developer, and need to chek the results of my work in all of them.)
I'll stick to FF, thanks. Got this baby all completely configured and I don't wanna take the effort to port all that stuff to other browsers.
Yeah, I love the Firefox extensions. They're the best aspect of Firefox. I peaked at 70-odd extensions before having to re-install Windows.
Yeah, I love the Firefox extensions. They're the best aspect of Firefox. I peaked at 70-odd extensions before having to re-install Windows.
Ive had the beta of 9 for months now, maise well upgrade to full version 9
Yeah, I love the Firefox extensions. They're the best aspect of Firefox. I peaked at 70-odd extensions before having to re-install Windows.
Opera has extensions too, I think, I just don't feel like switching for the case of having to port all my settings to that browser.
Opera has extensions too, I think, I just don't feel like switching for the case of having to port all my settings to that browser.
Aye, Opera 9 has widgets and userJS and it also supports greasemonkey scripts. Of course, userJS and greasemonkey are similar, except that there are some Opera-specific objects in userJS.
I just don't feel like switching for the case of having to port all my settings to that browser.
Same here. Don't you all love über-customizable browsers
I just don't feel like switching for the case of having to port all my settings to that browser.
Same here. Don't you all love über-customizable browsers
I prefer firefox since its so cool and its interface is so wicked and because opera sucks because I got really kn0ow unknown reason on it because I don't like pie who sucks on my lolipop when I'm eating fish for dinner
I only used Internet Explorer. Why is Opera or FireFox Better?
Indeed. The standard happy user would stick with IE. However, I got sick and tired of getting toolbars, popups and shoot over and over again, having to remove them each time. That's the main reason I switched.
I have, and a popup blocker and all that shoot, but some stuff just kept returning no matter what. And only in IE. So I got pissed off at IE for its security problems in this aspect and tried some other browsers. Opera wasn't really to my liking, but Firefox was. Could be the interface.
Oh, let's see... Opera and Firefox (henceforth collectively called "OF") is better than Internet Explorer (henceforth known as "IE")because
1) IE has a crapload of vulnerabilities, many which stem from IE's close integration with the entire OS, even some as deep as kernel level, if I'm not mistaken. OK, OF have both been shown to have vulnerabilities, but these browsers are not an integral part of the OS, and are therefore not as dangerous. I've had to help people who've had their PC hijacked by spyware, trojans, viruses, and whatnot, just because IE let it happen. And whenever I use an IE-user's PC, I see all these weird toolbars in IE, and when I ask them why they have them, they just answer "I dunno. It just showed up one day, and I can't seem to get it away." Yeah, well. If you enjoy having your browser taken over, surveilanced and abused, keep using IE.
2) OF are updated and upgraded very often. When was the last time IE was updated? I think IE 6 is over four years old. Yes, IE 7 is on its way, but it's after four frickin' years!
3) Based on what I just said about updating, the Internet has evolved since 2002-2003. Nowadays, OF supports XHTML, CSS1+2 and that new and fancy AJAX stuff. IE supports neither, unless you're willing to accept stupid hacks as "support". It's not the developers of websites' responsibility to fix Microsoft's browser.
4) Tabbed browsing and extension of the browser is built in with OF. IE has neither.
5) ActiveX. One of Microsoft's pet peeves. Absent in OF. Yay! If you absolutely require it, there's a plugin for Fx at least, but I'm glad I'm without.
6) OF is supported in nearly any OS you can think of. So if you ever where to switch, you'll still be able to use your beloved favorite browser there. IE is... well... Windows only.
7) Faster browsing. Believe it or not, but tests have shown that OF are faster than IE when it comes to browsing. They render pages faster, and use methods to download the site you're visiting better. Opera is supposedly better than Firefox in this aspect, but they're at least both better than IE.
8) Firefox is Open-Source! Oooh. You can go through its code and see what it really is doing. If you're scared of Open Source, this of course is no advantage to you, but for me, using an Open Source OS, and nothing but Open Source programs, I like that my browser is also Open Source. I even have a friend who's doing bugsquasing for Firefox. Internet Explorer (and Opera, indicentially) keeps their sources closed, so you have no idea what they're doing. If you're fine with that... well, so be it. I like it when several thousands have scrutinized the code of the programs I use.
That's all I can think of currently. But it convinces me, so I'm keeping FAAAR away from that IE browser. The only thing it's good for is downloading another browser.
1) IE has a crapload of vulnerabilities, many which stem from IE's close integration with the entire OS, even some as deep as kernel level, if I'm not mistaken. OK, OF have both been shown to have vulnerabilities, but these browsers are not an integral part of the OS, and are therefore not as dangerous. I've had to help people who've had their PC hijacked by spyware, trojans, viruses, and whatnot, just because IE let it happen. And whenever I use an IE-user's PC, I see all these weird toolbars in IE, and when I ask them why they have them, they just answer "I dunno. It just showed up one day, and I can't seem to get it away." Yeah, well. If you enjoy having your browser taken over, surveilanced and abused, keep using IE.
2) OF are updated and upgraded very often. When was the last time IE was updated? I think IE 6 is over four years old. Yes, IE 7 is on its way, but it's after four frickin' years!
3) Based on what I just said about updating, the Internet has evolved since 2002-2003. Nowadays, OF supports XHTML, CSS1+2 and that new and fancy AJAX stuff. IE supports neither, unless you're willing to accept stupid hacks as "support". It's not the developers of websites' responsibility to fix Microsoft's browser.
4) Tabbed browsing and extension of the browser is built in with OF. IE has neither.
5) ActiveX. One of Microsoft's pet peeves. Absent in OF. Yay! If you absolutely require it, there's a plugin for Fx at least, but I'm glad I'm without.
6) OF is supported in nearly any OS you can think of. So if you ever where to switch, you'll still be able to use your beloved favorite browser there. IE is... well... Windows only.
7) Faster browsing. Believe it or not, but tests have shown that OF are faster than IE when it comes to browsing. They render pages faster, and use methods to download the site you're visiting better. Opera is supposedly better than Firefox in this aspect, but they're at least both better than IE.
8) Firefox is Open-Source! Oooh. You can go through its code and see what it really is doing. If you're scared of Open Source, this of course is no advantage to you, but for me, using an Open Source OS, and nothing but Open Source programs, I like that my browser is also Open Source. I even have a friend who's doing bugsquasing for Firefox. Internet Explorer (and Opera, indicentially) keeps their sources closed, so you have no idea what they're doing. If you're fine with that... well, so be it. I like it when several thousands have scrutinized the code of the programs I use.
That's all I can think of currently. But it convinces me, so I'm keeping FAAAR away from that IE browser. The only thing it's good for is downloading another browser.
Nice post
1) Agreed, but most of IE's vulnerabilities are (as you said) because it is integrated into windows. I also believe that, because IE is more used (heck, default thing...), it's more interesting for malware writers to target IE. If OF would have 80%+ of the market share, I think more vulnerabilities would be found, simply because it's more interesting for malware writers to find them.
2) Aye.
3) Though HTTPXMLRequest is still not fully supported in Opera. You know about the Acid2 test? It's nice. I hope for IE users, and the web as a whole, that IE7 will pass this test.
4) IE7 will, but it's still in beta.
5) ActiveX is ugly. 'nuff said.
6) Older versions of IE are also available on Mac. I believe they stopped at IE5, but I might be wrong.
7) In this article I read, FF is slower than IE. Of course, because IE is integrated into Windows, this can be expected for the cold and warm starts. There are some footnotes about that and other things. Read it, it's an interesting page.
8) Yup, its Open Source-ness and extensions are a great plus for Firefox.
1) Agreed, but most of IE's vulnerabilities are (as you said) because it is integrated into windows. I also believe that, because IE is more used (heck, default thing...), it's more interesting for malware writers to target IE. If OF would have 80%+ of the market share, I think more vulnerabilities would be found, simply because it's more interesting for malware writers to find them.
2) Aye.
3) Though HTTPXMLRequest is still not fully supported in Opera. You know about the Acid2 test? It's nice. I hope for IE users, and the web as a whole, that IE7 will pass this test.
4) IE7 will, but it's still in beta.
5) ActiveX is ugly. 'nuff said.
6) Older versions of IE are also available on Mac. I believe they stopped at IE5, but I might be wrong.
7) In this article I read, FF is slower than IE. Of course, because IE is integrated into Windows, this can be expected for the cold and warm starts. There are some footnotes about that and other things. Read it, it's an interesting page.
8) Yup, its Open Source-ness and extensions are a great plus for Firefox.
Opera has extensions too, I think, I just don't feel like switching for the case of having to port all my settings to that browser.
Yeah, but are there as many as FF and are they as good?
Yeah, but are there as many as FF and are they as good?
I only used Internet Explorer. Why is Opera or FireFox Better?
Because they don't have as many security vulnerabilities and because hackers don't target them as quickly. Oh, and the few vulnerabilities are patched faster.
Because they don't have as many security vulnerabilities and because hackers don't target them as quickly. Oh, and the few vulnerabilities are patched faster.
Firstly, Phoenix, I'd like to say very good points. However, one of your points is actually worse than you said. IE is now almost five years old. It was released with Windows XP. Secondly, I agree with you about not using IE. However, I believe it has two other uses that it's good for. Firstly, for going to the Microsoft Update site. That can only be accessed with IE (although there is a extention for Firefox that runs IE in Firefox tabs that gets around this). It is also useful for testing that your website works in IE. Since most people use IE this is a important use for IE. However, IE is losing popularity to Firefox and Opera.
I find IE7 quite good though.
Yeah, I know of Acid2. But like I've also read, that test is not the ultimate thing. Even if a browser fully supports it doesn't mean it supports everything. The test has intentional errors to test how browsers cope with them, but there are no absolute rules on how to deal with errors, so each browser may react differently.
I know IE7 also will have tabs, but the only reason it will have tabs is because Microsoft finally realized that people want it. Thank goodness somebody else thought of it before Microsoft, or else the idea would probably be patented, and you would have to use IE for it.
I also know IE is available on Mac, and yes, the last version is version 5, but that browser is so out of date, that nearly no sites made today works properly in it. I just chose to ignore it, because generally, Microsoft makes products for Windows only. Not surprising, its being their flagship.
I've read that article. It assumes you haven't tweaked your browser. You can really mess around with settings in Fx, and many pages on the internet will show you how to really boost your Fx. Mine is rather fast, cause I've changed many defaults.
I also would like to make it a point that if it weren't for the fact that Firefox and Opera were both gaining ground, Microsoft wouldn't give a shoot. It's thanks to these two great browsers that Microsoft finally gets its act together. Although I have a feeling it's only going to be half-hearted this time around too.
I know IE7 also will have tabs, but the only reason it will have tabs is because Microsoft finally realized that people want it. Thank goodness somebody else thought of it before Microsoft, or else the idea would probably be patented, and you would have to use IE for it.
I also know IE is available on Mac, and yes, the last version is version 5, but that browser is so out of date, that nearly no sites made today works properly in it. I just chose to ignore it, because generally, Microsoft makes products for Windows only. Not surprising, its being their flagship.
I've read that article. It assumes you haven't tweaked your browser. You can really mess around with settings in Fx, and many pages on the internet will show you how to really boost your Fx. Mine is rather fast, cause I've changed many defaults.
I also would like to make it a point that if it weren't for the fact that Firefox and Opera were both gaining ground, Microsoft wouldn't give a shoot. It's thanks to these two great browsers that Microsoft finally gets its act together. Although I have a feeling it's only going to be half-hearted this time around too.
Right, Microsoft Update. It uses ActiveX. *shudders* It just proves that Microsoft isn't willing to let anybody else in. A long time ago, Hotmail would only work in IE. Opera users were told to "upgrade to the latest version of IE". Idiots.
Um... "two other uses", and the second being to test that your websites work in it? That's not a use, that's a sad, but unfortunate reality. I even have IE configured to work in Linux through the magic that is Wine. But I only care about IE when I make sites for others. Like I said in my previous post, it's not my responsibility to keep IE working properly by using stupid hacks.
Um... "two other uses", and the second being to test that your websites work in it? That's not a use, that's a sad, but unfortunate reality. I even have IE configured to work in Linux through the magic that is Wine. But I only care about IE when I make sites for others. Like I said in my previous post, it's not my responsibility to keep IE working properly by using stupid hacks.
Re: Point 1
I always see people point this out, and I still think it's wrong.
Sure, the blackhat's may target firefox more, but don't you think that all those vulnerabilites would get patched a heck of a lot faster? And you wouldn't have to wait for patch day for the updtates to come out.
Look at this and tell me, have you ever seen IE patch a crictical flaw in less than two days?
I always see people point this out, and I still think it's wrong.
Sure, the blackhat's may target firefox more, but don't you think that all those vulnerabilites would get patched a heck of a lot faster? And you wouldn't have to wait for patch day for the updtates to come out.
Look at this and tell me, have you ever seen IE patch a crictical flaw in less than two days?
a little off topic, but does anyone know how I can configure msn messenger to start up firefox when I click on my hotmail inbox?
EDIT: another thing: with internet explorer, the "slide bar" on the right is in the color scheme of the dink network, but in firefox, it uses the same color scheme as the rest of my computer (the "non-internet browser, so to speak). how can change that?
EDIT: another thing: with internet explorer, the "slide bar" on the right is in the color scheme of the dink network, but in firefox, it uses the same color scheme as the rest of my computer (the "non-internet browser, so to speak). how can change that?
Firefox doesn't support that because that's something Microsoft made up. Opera has an option to turn it off or on, IIRC, but still. It's non-standard. A Microsoft invention.
Combined reply to Phoenix and Chrispy...
First @Chrispy:
Yes, OF are fixed much faster than IE, but I only mentioned finding new vulnerabilities. I agree with DraconicDink, so I'll quote him here:
"Because they don't have as many security vulnerabilities and because hackers don't target them as quickly. Oh, and the few vulnerabilities are patched faster".
@Phoenix:
It's true that Acid2 isn't the end-all-be-all of web tests available, but it tests some of the more requested techniques. Also I've found a W3C page on how to deal with invalid CSS here. There's a default stylesheet, but that's no requirement whatsoever. Might be useful to know about it, though.
Agree on the IE7 tabs. With the Mac IE5 mention, I just wanted to point out that it isn't completely Windows only. Mere nitpicking, but if someone really wanted to use IE on Mac, it's possible
First @Chrispy:
Yes, OF are fixed much faster than IE, but I only mentioned finding new vulnerabilities. I agree with DraconicDink, so I'll quote him here:
"Because they don't have as many security vulnerabilities and because hackers don't target them as quickly. Oh, and the few vulnerabilities are patched faster".
@Phoenix:
It's true that Acid2 isn't the end-all-be-all of web tests available, but it tests some of the more requested techniques. Also I've found a W3C page on how to deal with invalid CSS here. There's a default stylesheet, but that's no requirement whatsoever. Might be useful to know about it, though.
Agree on the IE7 tabs. With the Mac IE5 mention, I just wanted to point out that it isn't completely Windows only. Mere nitpicking, but if someone really wanted to use IE on Mac, it's possible
When I posted *clicky*, I downloaded it. Now I've used it for a while, and I can tell you what I think of it.
First, there aren't many differences between the 8.5x series and Opera 9, so I'll just say what I think about the "New in Opera 9" features mentioned here.
BitTorrent: I haven't used it yet, but with the BitTorrent.com search widget, this may change.
Search engines: This was already possibly by .ini editing, but now there's a way to do it in the GUI I'm even happier. So far I've added wikipedia search and dictionary.com search.
Site Preferences: Just individual cookie settings and popup-blocker settings. Also it's possible to have a custom .css file and custom JavaScript per site.
Improved rich text editing: Eh? Not needed it yet. Most text I type is plaintext anyway...
Content blocker: Yay! Right-click > Block Content. Then you can click all elements that you want to have blocked. It was possible in earlier versions by .ini editing, but UI-implementations are good.
Thumbnail preview: In the "tab scroll" menu (Ctrl-Tab, or RightClick+Scroll), this is a pain. It's nice as added information when hovering over a tab, though.
Widgets: These are little programs that run in the browser. There aren't many useful ones, but I've managed to find a few. These are the ones I use:
BitTorrent.com search.
Currency Convertor.
For those two, there's probably a search engine defined, but I didn't feel like looking it up.
Functions 2D.
The Colours of the Rainbow.
There's one problem with 9, compared to the 8.5x series. And that is the "temporary download directory". When you download files, they are stored in a specified directory somewhere on the system. Then, depending on if you chose "open" or "save", the file is opened with the default program; or if Opera can open it, which is usually the case with plaintext files, Opera will do so. That was the old way, and I was happy. Now, when you choose "open" it is downloaded to a different directory than when you choose "save". All fine, but this directory gets cleared when you clear the cache.
What if I download a music file, which I want to listen to immediately, and then decide if I want to keep it or not? That's not a too uncommon scenario, is it? Before, there was one way. The good way:
Click download link. Choose "open". Wait a bit for the file to download. Listen to it. Like it > keep in the downloads dir. Not like it > delete from the downloads dir.
Now there are two ways, neither of which are better than before:
1) Click download link. Choose "open". Wait a bit. Listen. Like it > move to other directory (might get deleted otherwise). Not like it > delete from temp downloads dir (or wait for cache cleanup...)
2) Click download link. Choose "save". Wait a bit. Open file from transfers window. Listen. Like it > keep in the downloads dir. Not like it > delete from downloads dir.
What's the big deal? With the first way, if I happen to like the song, moving of the file is one action too much. Yes, I'm lazy like that. The second way, simply having to open the transfer tab, and double-clicking the file there is too much. I could keep the transfer tab open, but it clutters up the screen if I have 20 other tabs.
I understand there are people who prefer it the way it's now, but there are also more people like me, who would like to see it changed back. What to do, what to do? Do the Opera thing, make it user-configurable. "Tools > Preferences > Advanced > Downloads > Temporary downloads" would be the perfect place for it, along with a line to set the temporary downloads dir. That's only possible through .ini editing, or through opera:config. I don't dare to set the temp dir to the normal transfer dir, for fear of flushing all downloaded files with the cache.
First, there aren't many differences between the 8.5x series and Opera 9, so I'll just say what I think about the "New in Opera 9" features mentioned here.
BitTorrent: I haven't used it yet, but with the BitTorrent.com search widget, this may change.
Search engines: This was already possibly by .ini editing, but now there's a way to do it in the GUI I'm even happier. So far I've added wikipedia search and dictionary.com search.
Site Preferences: Just individual cookie settings and popup-blocker settings. Also it's possible to have a custom .css file and custom JavaScript per site.
Improved rich text editing: Eh? Not needed it yet. Most text I type is plaintext anyway...
Content blocker: Yay! Right-click > Block Content. Then you can click all elements that you want to have blocked. It was possible in earlier versions by .ini editing, but UI-implementations are good.
Thumbnail preview: In the "tab scroll" menu (Ctrl-Tab, or RightClick+Scroll), this is a pain. It's nice as added information when hovering over a tab, though.
Widgets: These are little programs that run in the browser. There aren't many useful ones, but I've managed to find a few. These are the ones I use:
BitTorrent.com search.
Currency Convertor.
For those two, there's probably a search engine defined, but I didn't feel like looking it up.
Functions 2D.
The Colours of the Rainbow.
There's one problem with 9, compared to the 8.5x series. And that is the "temporary download directory". When you download files, they are stored in a specified directory somewhere on the system. Then, depending on if you chose "open" or "save", the file is opened with the default program; or if Opera can open it, which is usually the case with plaintext files, Opera will do so. That was the old way, and I was happy. Now, when you choose "open" it is downloaded to a different directory than when you choose "save". All fine, but this directory gets cleared when you clear the cache.
What if I download a music file, which I want to listen to immediately, and then decide if I want to keep it or not? That's not a too uncommon scenario, is it? Before, there was one way. The good way:
Click download link. Choose "open". Wait a bit for the file to download. Listen to it. Like it > keep in the downloads dir. Not like it > delete from the downloads dir.
Now there are two ways, neither of which are better than before:
1) Click download link. Choose "open". Wait a bit. Listen. Like it > move to other directory (might get deleted otherwise). Not like it > delete from temp downloads dir (or wait for cache cleanup...)
2) Click download link. Choose "save". Wait a bit. Open file from transfers window. Listen. Like it > keep in the downloads dir. Not like it > delete from downloads dir.
What's the big deal? With the first way, if I happen to like the song, moving of the file is one action too much. Yes, I'm lazy like that. The second way, simply having to open the transfer tab, and double-clicking the file there is too much. I could keep the transfer tab open, but it clutters up the screen if I have 20 other tabs.
I understand there are people who prefer it the way it's now, but there are also more people like me, who would like to see it changed back. What to do, what to do? Do the Opera thing, make it user-configurable. "Tools > Preferences > Advanced > Downloads > Temporary downloads" would be the perfect place for it, along with a line to set the temporary downloads dir. That's only possible through .ini editing, or through opera:config. I don't dare to set the temp dir to the normal transfer dir, for fear of flushing all downloaded files with the cache.
I'm sure that there is an option to not delete cached items. That would work for a temporary fix, no? And once you move the files, which I'm assuming you would anyways, you could then manually clear the cache and all the temp files. Sure, it takes a little time, but in the end? It's all good.
Aye, I could do all that and the extra time wouldn't kill me, but that's not my point. When I browse and download files, I want to browse and download files. I don't want to need to remember to move the files to another directory and empty the cache manually.
I currently use firefox for most of my web browsing and I'm quite
happy with it.However, I wasn't able to get rid of IE as my printer/
scanner/copier machine won't work without it.I don't know why that is
but it sucks.
Opera9 sounds like it's okay but not better than firefox, so I'll
just stay with what I have.
EDIT: Also, I really enjoyed how quickly FF downloaded and the updates
are quick and painless as well.
happy with it.However, I wasn't able to get rid of IE as my printer/
scanner/copier machine won't work without it.I don't know why that is
but it sucks.
Opera9 sounds like it's okay but not better than firefox, so I'll
just stay with what I have.
EDIT: Also, I really enjoyed how quickly FF downloaded and the updates
are quick and painless as well.
I'm still using Opera 8.54 because the Opera 9 package isn't available yet for my Linux distro.
What's new in version 9 compared to 8.5?
What's new in version 9 compared to 8.5?
Changelog for Linux.
I've posted earlier in this thread about the "new in Opera 9" changes on the features pages.
I've posted earlier in this thread about the "new in Opera 9" changes on the features pages.
There are allready DoS \ POC's out for Opera 9 allready lol.
i just downloaded the new internet explorer beta version and it has tabs, search engines, zooming with control + scroll. and a bunch of other stuff that seems usefull but never use, its also better lookin than the generic version, it actually looks like it belongs with xp. it has anti spy and pop up blocher, o ya and this thing called a phishing filter(watever that is) ive tried opera and fire fox and i like this internet explorer beta way better.
lol, tabs. Stolen feature from FF. They're actually quite useful:
http://davince.sitesled.com/Temp/images/tabs.PNG
http://davince.sitesled.com/Temp/images/tabs.PNG
ya, i used yahoo tool bar before i downloaded the new internet explora
What does Yahoo Toolbar have to do with anything?
And from the sound of it, all of IE's new features (except maybe the phishing filter) were lifted straight from FF. I wonder if they're actually doing anything innovative on their part.
And from the sound of it, all of IE's new features (except maybe the phishing filter) were lifted straight from FF. I wonder if they're actually doing anything innovative on their part.
Lol, tabs. Stolen feature from Opera. Opera has had tabs since november 2001.
I agree, Phoenix. It is a sad unforunate reality. Lets hope IE7 is a lot better. While we're at it why not wish for pigs top fly" It's juat as likely.
Yes, because nothing's hotter than a anthropomorphic muppet.
You have no chance, pal. Everyone knows she likes frogs, and euhm... I believe I'm the most froggy person here.
Ok. I downloaded it. Right now I'm posting using Opera9. The first difference that I noticed is that text loads before images. This is good.
