skeleton
The boomerang topic seemed inappropriate for a skeleton discussion, so I decided to start this thread.
The important questions are, what defines a skeleton, and what is a good skeleton like.
To me, the ideal skeleton has only the basic files every dmod needs, cleaned of unnecessary stuff (ie. unused lines in dink.ini) and the stuff that's used for original Dink. The idea is that the author needs to make no adjustments to the skeleton before he can start with the creative part of dmod making.
I'm a prefectionist, and to me a perfect skeleton is a very simple one. But that is just my opinion, and anyone who has another one, should share it.
The important questions are, what defines a skeleton, and what is a good skeleton like.
To me, the ideal skeleton has only the basic files every dmod needs, cleaned of unnecessary stuff (ie. unused lines in dink.ini) and the stuff that's used for original Dink. The idea is that the author needs to make no adjustments to the skeleton before he can start with the creative part of dmod making.
I'm a prefectionist, and to me a perfect skeleton is a very simple one. But that is just my opinion, and anyone who has another one, should share it.
I agree.
Here are my ideas for Skeleton Ultimate (what I'm calling the new, hypothetical skeleton). These are just my ideas, and if anyone disagrees or has comments, please say so and why.
It should have the following:
* Relatively well documented dink.ini
* Simple title screen (consisting of one background image that is easy to modify, unlike Skeleton B)
* Very well documented startup scripts
* dmod.diz sample
It should NOT have the following:
* New tiles, graphics (title screen being an exception), sounds, or music
* Any other unnecessary scripts
Things I'm not sure about:
* Hard.dat re-write?
* Initial map screen?
Here are my ideas for Skeleton Ultimate (what I'm calling the new, hypothetical skeleton). These are just my ideas, and if anyone disagrees or has comments, please say so and why.
It should have the following:
* Relatively well documented dink.ini
* Simple title screen (consisting of one background image that is easy to modify, unlike Skeleton B)
* Very well documented startup scripts
* dmod.diz sample
It should NOT have the following:
* New tiles, graphics (title screen being an exception), sounds, or music
* Any other unnecessary scripts
Things I'm not sure about:
* Hard.dat re-write?
* Initial map screen?
I think the hard.dat rewrite should be included, as for map screen... I dont realy think it matters, but probably not. I quite liked the title screen in skeleton b. other than that, i agree with redink.
like i said in the latest skeleton whatever release, if you dont want to use the hard.dat rewrite you just delete it cause dink uses the original hard.dat in the dink directory anyway. so the original hard.dat in skeleton B is USELESS anyway, it would be like including all the graphics in the dink directory graphics folder!! ack.
-delete skeleton X
-delete skeleton B
skeleton S should remain as the best skeleton for experienced dmod authors
and another skeleton could be added with redink1's idea for more documentation for the beginners.
skeleton S will remain without documentation because frankly i dont want that shoot in my dmod, i already know how to do it myself. the sole purpose i want in a skeleton is to BE A SKELETON.
so maybe skeleton S should be called "skeleton simple: skeleton for advanced authors" and ultimate skeleton should be called
"skeleton documented: skeleton for beginning authors"
this solves all the problems, and keeping it how it is now is just plain stubborn. there are no benefits in keeping or using skeleton B whatsoever. it is outdated so face the fact and just let it die.
-delete skeleton X
-delete skeleton B
skeleton S should remain as the best skeleton for experienced dmod authors
and another skeleton could be added with redink1's idea for more documentation for the beginners.
skeleton S will remain without documentation because frankly i dont want that shoot in my dmod, i already know how to do it myself. the sole purpose i want in a skeleton is to BE A SKELETON.
so maybe skeleton S should be called "skeleton simple: skeleton for advanced authors" and ultimate skeleton should be called
"skeleton documented: skeleton for beginning authors"
this solves all the problems, and keeping it how it is now is just plain stubborn. there are no benefits in keeping or using skeleton B whatsoever. it is outdated so face the fact and just let it die.
You're not biased at all, are you joshriot? 
By 'well documented', I'm just referring to comments in the source code. Not necessarily a lot of comments, just plain, understandable, and useful.
I agree, a skeleton *shouldn't* include any extra documentation or tutorials or anything.
By 'well documented', I'm just referring to comments in the source code. Not necessarily a lot of comments, just plain, understandable, and useful.
I agree, a skeleton *shouldn't* include any extra documentation or tutorials or anything.
I'd like some lines commented out, to be commented out, for things like enabling an intro-scene or not. And where to change the starting map and such.
what do you mean biased, just cause you havent released the file like everything else people dont give me credit, well that doesnt mean i cant make a file thats better then skeleton B but NOO its so good cause it was made by GOD about 500 years ago and he knows everything about dink smallwood.
Joshriot, I meant no harm. It was merely a jestful remark, and your opinion is greatly valued.
Mike Snyder is GOD?
Mike Snyder is GOD?
I really don't understand what's so bad about
skeleton b.As a newbie, I have always used it
to start my dmods and I find it quite adequate.
I once downloaded joshriots but I didn't really
see what was so much better.??
skeleton b.As a newbie, I have always used it
to start my dmods and I find it quite adequate.
I once downloaded joshriots but I didn't really
see what was so much better.??
EVERYTHING IS BETTER!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Let's bash skeleton b!
* some graphics are missing
* bad dink.ini
* too much annoying help lines and even new text documents
* extra stuff
The few things that should be added to the new skeleton are frame_specials for the purple bonca, full screen title and perhaps title screen buttons, as almost all dmods use those. (as in but1-01 but2-01 etc.)
dunno about the help lines, at least the ones at the very top are ok. (having a n00b-skeleton and an "advanced author"-skeleton sounds a little degrading)
* some graphics are missing
* bad dink.ini
* too much annoying help lines and even new text documents
* extra stuff
The few things that should be added to the new skeleton are frame_specials for the purple bonca, full screen title and perhaps title screen buttons, as almost all dmods use those. (as in but1-01 but2-01 etc.)
dunno about the help lines, at least the ones at the very top are ok. (having a n00b-skeleton and an "advanced author"-skeleton sounds a little degrading)
The "skeleton documented" is my Skeleton E... No tutorials, but comments in the code, and some small technology stuff.
These are the downsides of Skeleton whatever, from my still pending review (6.2):
- Same ugly title buttons...
- Where is the playmidi in start.c? The author has been a little too minimalistic.
- Start-1.c loads map square 0 as default. That square doesn't even exist, so the engine will load square 400, but you cannot leave the screen. This is annoying for an author.
- No cool technology, like built-in support for first-time intro/automatic game start or Continue button that is only drawn if there are save games.
I seriously think you, Josh, should fix your skeleton so it at least has a playmidi() in start.c and map screen 400 as default.
I am not sure you will like my skeleton that well. I have used the original title screen buttons, because they look more "medieval" than the Skeleton B ones. Another difference is that I have separated the intro from the start button, to be able to easily launch it directly from start.c. I know minimalists won't like that.
I think the "ultimate skeleton" should have a Continue button that's only drawn if there are savegames.
Since I think my Skeleton is relevant for this debate, I will tell you again where it is: http://home.online.no/~sorica/SkelE.dmod
I have spent some time making it, but it is not important that you use that exact product as "ultimate skeleton". I just want to have positive impact on the result.
These are the downsides of Skeleton whatever, from my still pending review (6.2):
- Same ugly title buttons...
- Where is the playmidi in start.c? The author has been a little too minimalistic.
- Start-1.c loads map square 0 as default. That square doesn't even exist, so the engine will load square 400, but you cannot leave the screen. This is annoying for an author.
- No cool technology, like built-in support for first-time intro/automatic game start or Continue button that is only drawn if there are save games.
I seriously think you, Josh, should fix your skeleton so it at least has a playmidi() in start.c and map screen 400 as default.
I am not sure you will like my skeleton that well. I have used the original title screen buttons, because they look more "medieval" than the Skeleton B ones. Another difference is that I have separated the intro from the start button, to be able to easily launch it directly from start.c. I know minimalists won't like that.
I think the "ultimate skeleton" should have a Continue button that's only drawn if there are savegames.
Since I think my Skeleton is relevant for this debate, I will tell you again where it is: http://home.online.no/~sorica/SkelE.dmod
I have spent some time making it, but it is not important that you use that exact product as "ultimate skeleton". I just want to have positive impact on the result.
