Reply to Re: Epic length
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Let me just use an example, with the game Super Metroid. The game can be speed run in about 43 realtime minutes from start to finish. Technically, that makes everything else "optional" because by playing clever you can reduce the required "main story" to a smaller set of actions. In this way using Skull's definition, Super Metroid could be classified as the equivalent of Dink Smallwood romp... Which doesn't sound right to me. Especially since the average person playing the game for the first time is going to take a healthy 3-6+ hours to beat the game and that's not even doing everything. Same thing for Dink Smallwood main game since it can literally be speed ran in about 35 minutes or less even though the real gameplay is about 4 hours long or more for most first-time players. Keeping this in mind, should the original Dink Smallwood be called a Romp then?
I think the original game makes this whole thing rather problematic. If someone who's experienced with the game played it through casually, it'd probably take around 2½-3 hours. However, the original game barely contains any dialogue/side stuff, whereas in most Epics you're often stuck in a rather lengthy conversation. If you added the usual "Epic amount" of storyline dialogue into the original game, it'd easily gain another hour, making it 4 hours and the required length of an Epic about 4 hours as well. Which I think pretty much everybody here has agreed on, that the length should be about 4 hours. Well, except for Scratcher who said it seemed a little short to him.
My point is; WHAT is the "length of the main story" when it comes to a game or a DMOD? I think it should be defined as the length of time the average person would take to play through the game casually for the first time. Not trying to speed run, not trying to skip things just because they are optional (nor trying to do every single optional thing), but instead just to enjoy the game. Otherwise, most games are seriously shorter than their "average play length". I mean seriously, Final Fantasy 9 can be beat in 12 (actually the record is less than 9) hours and the game even encourages it with a reward, despite the real time to beat usually being classified somewhere between 40-60 hours (or even higher for completionists). This is why we can't just define length of the game by the amount of time it takes to get from the beginning to the end. And why things such as NPC's, hidden powerups, secrets and dialogue can not be completely left out from the categorized length of a game.
I think the length should be defined by the playtime of someone who knows the game, but isn't trying to rush through it. Such as the author. The reason I don't think random NPC dialogues and random exploration should count, is cause depending on how much you enjoy doing those things (as well as how lucky you are finding the right place to go) the game's length could gain hours, which is a bit unfair. Sure, a bookshelf in an RPG might provide clues, but if you spend an hour searching bookshelves, should that time really count to the overall length of the game? Personally, I think it shouldn't. That's exactly what I'd call artificial length, which Metatarasal spoke about. It may not have been meant as such, but that's what it is, because that hour has nohow moved you towards winning the game. It has only contributed to that one player's experience, not the length of the actual game.
And remember that this is just the length. Even if you do manage to make a storyline long enough to suffice for an Epic, there's still the question if other aspects of the D-Mod fill the requirements of one. Initiation is a perfect example of a D-Mod that fits as an Epic length-wise, but falls kinda short in other aspects.
I think the original game makes this whole thing rather problematic. If someone who's experienced with the game played it through casually, it'd probably take around 2½-3 hours. However, the original game barely contains any dialogue/side stuff, whereas in most Epics you're often stuck in a rather lengthy conversation. If you added the usual "Epic amount" of storyline dialogue into the original game, it'd easily gain another hour, making it 4 hours and the required length of an Epic about 4 hours as well. Which I think pretty much everybody here has agreed on, that the length should be about 4 hours. Well, except for Scratcher who said it seemed a little short to him.
My point is; WHAT is the "length of the main story" when it comes to a game or a DMOD? I think it should be defined as the length of time the average person would take to play through the game casually for the first time. Not trying to speed run, not trying to skip things just because they are optional (nor trying to do every single optional thing), but instead just to enjoy the game. Otherwise, most games are seriously shorter than their "average play length". I mean seriously, Final Fantasy 9 can be beat in 12 (actually the record is less than 9) hours and the game even encourages it with a reward, despite the real time to beat usually being classified somewhere between 40-60 hours (or even higher for completionists). This is why we can't just define length of the game by the amount of time it takes to get from the beginning to the end. And why things such as NPC's, hidden powerups, secrets and dialogue can not be completely left out from the categorized length of a game.
I think the length should be defined by the playtime of someone who knows the game, but isn't trying to rush through it. Such as the author. The reason I don't think random NPC dialogues and random exploration should count, is cause depending on how much you enjoy doing those things (as well as how lucky you are finding the right place to go) the game's length could gain hours, which is a bit unfair. Sure, a bookshelf in an RPG might provide clues, but if you spend an hour searching bookshelves, should that time really count to the overall length of the game? Personally, I think it shouldn't. That's exactly what I'd call artificial length, which Metatarasal spoke about. It may not have been meant as such, but that's what it is, because that hour has nohow moved you towards winning the game. It has only contributed to that one player's experience, not the length of the actual game.
And remember that this is just the length. Even if you do manage to make a storyline long enough to suffice for an Epic, there's still the question if other aspects of the D-Mod fill the requirements of one. Initiation is a perfect example of a D-Mod that fits as an Epic length-wise, but falls kinda short in other aspects.
