The Dink Network

I want to learn web page design. Does anyone know of a good web site where I can learn HTML, DHTML, XML, XHTML, java and any other web languages? If there are any others that is and if they're even worth using. Alternatively any free web editors that include comprehensive help.

Thanks, I'll look into it.

HTML isn't hard at all. In fact, I learned it without looking at ANY HTML tut!

Doing HTML correctly is harder than you'd think. Hell, everyone can do HTML, but doing it the Right Way (TM) is something not even most so-called professional web designers can. I.e. they use some crappy program like DreamWeaver or FrontPage to do it. Tsk. Real hackers use Notepad or some enhanced version of it. As for the link mentioned earlier, it talks about HTML v2, while HTML has now come to version 4.01, so that's kind of outdated. Although the thing has some good points, such as in Chapter one, under "Writing to the norm". I should really write a HTML tutorial myself soon, since I have yet to find one which teaches it properly. Of course, there are many good resources out there, though, such as Dive Into Accessibility and CSS Layout Techniques and Why tables for layout is stupid and there are many more, but I had to look, so you can too.

Oh yes, and let me just mention that you should avoid XHTML unless you really need it, because chances are that you haven't got a clue what it's about.

And finally, let me just post a quote:

Valid markup is always better. It is processed faster and it is processed more reliably. And it is more "future-proof", in that you are not relying on the error handling routines of future browsers being the same as those of today's browsers.

Phew. I'm done now, but I really have a lot more to say. Unfortunately, I guess 96% of you have stopped reading this post by now, so it'd be in vain.

"Real hackers use Notepad or some enhanced version of it."

So the only truly professional webpage designers are hackers? I don't see why on earth you said anything about "hackers."

And for the record, I read your entire post. I didn't really have anything important to reply with, but I was baffled by the aforementioned "hackers" bit.

*Seconds Tal's motion*

i used notepad for dink squad w00t im 7331 hax0r ? i pwn.

actually i think dreamweaver is a handy dandy program although i cant use it anymore cause i used some fake serial code thing for it before and then i got a new computer and copying it to another hard drive makes it not work anymore i guess.

but if you make a page and then edit something in dreamweaver it always seemed to totally screw the html up so i guess that doesnt happen if you just dont use it.

I first started out in geocities with their web page creator and then I would go into the file manager and open the page and read the html.I make a lot of mistakes I'm sure, but nothing major.

I started to learn HTML this month too. I have some great tutorials. If you want a good tutorial for HTML 4.0, try this link. For starting, I think it's better to write your html pages in Notepad.

Yes, true professional webpage coders are hackers. Read why in its jargon file, and since I sense that you are confusing terms here, please take due notice of entry 8.

As for webpage designers -- they don't really have to know HTML at all. They should get hold of a coder to make their idea into something, since, as I mentioned, using Frontpage or Dreamweaver or similar for this makes a crappy result.

Meh, Phoenix is just doing his best to sound superior again.

Heh, I have never in my life heard or seen the word "hacker" used as anything other than its typical implication of a person who gains illegal access to something via programming, reverse engineers some crap, etc. Maybe I've seen it used to refer to a computer buff in general, maybe. But oh, Phoenix's knowledge reigns superior again, and I does bow down to it, most certainly.

STFU n00b dont you klnow the true coding skillz that we possess, go back to kindergarden and play with your GI joe you dont know anything about hacking. i hack all the friggin time d00d.

I'm not doing my best to sound superior. I'm just trying to prevent what happens over and over again in the world of web coding. People try to learn something, get lots of wrong influences, and end up being horrible web page programmers. And when this has gone on long enough, it's as hard to get rid of as it is to get a nazi to drop his beliefs or a terrorist to drop his beliefs. Thus, learning it right from the start is the best way to go. That's all I'm trying to do here.

Fine, you people are put off by people who have knowledge in a certain field. What can I say? It's always the one who has knowledge who's being made fun of. But I don't care. What I know is appreciated where appreciation is due, and certainly, that is not here. So, instead of trying to help more, I'll just shut it, since apparently that's what you want me to.

I think you're missing the point, but I'll let you find out for yourself.

wait.... there was susposed to be a point?

Well all I want to learn is the code. I will decide how to implement it once learnt. Not based on the advice of others, or how a program thinks it should be. I can say from what little experience I have that I have quite a talent for programming (I have learnt a bit of code from experiementing and some library books (HTML and programming languages).

Oh and are you sure you don't mean crackers? Hackers are the one's that do it illegally and crackers do it legally (like people the software companies pay to try find flaws in their software by asking them to do the same as the hackers and people who reverse engineer programs that allow reverse engineering in their license.)

I prefer an immediate look at what the web site will look like (most HTML programs allow that now) and a link to the browser from the program (which they all do I believe). I also know from experience that 1stPage 2000 is a good program that can be used to create HTML and other web languages. I only asked because it wouldn't install so I wanted an alternative. The only other program I know of that is just as good is a 30 day trial only (CoffeeCup HTML Editor 2005).

And why Notepad? Why not one of the infenitely better Word Processors or Text Editors? Almost all Word Processors and Text Editprd these days allow Word Processing. I personally prefer in this order:

WordTabs 3.21
RoughDraft 3.0
OpenOfficeWord.org 2.0 Beta
Microsoft Word
Microsoft Works Word

All of these allow HTML coding (in fact OpenOffice.org (which is actually a office suit) also has a seperate program that looks like a Word Processor, but is actually a HTML program thyat acts like one in terms of function).

Yeah, real hackers code in binary. Dumb n00b using your words in notepad.

I also use to get my pages checked by a site called http://www.netmechanic.com
It's good for finding errors.

God what a bunch of nerds... Fighting over the title of "Hacker". One day you will realize you are a nerd...and my dream is to be there that very second to see the look on your face.

Naw j/k .../\/32D5 20XX025...

botox strfu you dirtyy noob we all pwn your 455 like i pwn my xbox with my 7331 hax

WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) sucks. Period.

I use a mix. Good enough for me!

What's WYSIWYG anyway? I've seen the word on some websites, I imagined it had something to do with the content for download but maybe not.

EDIT: Hence that, google is my friend.

Or maybe the fact that he put the definition right after WYSIWYG? Oh no that couldn't be it.

I knew the definition but they never tell anything in internet

If you didn't already pick up on it, WYSIWYG ("wizzy-wig") is fairly self-explanatory. Basically, in a WYSIWYG editor, you see what the final results will be as you're designing. To put it in perspective, DinkEdit is sort of a WYSIWYG editor, I would say, and FrontPage is a WYSIWYG editor. And on the other hand, Notepad (for DinkC script editing, HTML editing, etc.) is not a WYSIWYG editor; obviously, when scripts are used within Dink, they don't come up as gobs of text.

Hopefully that attempt at an explanation suffices.

Hardly self-explanatory... it could mean what it means but it could also mean a dozen other things. What I meant with my last comment was that if you assume something means what you think it means in the internet you're likely wrong.

Anyway, I got it.