The Dink Network

Web Dink

November 13th 2009, 10:02 PM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
Has it been done?

What I mean is, an online version of the Dink engine. Wouldn't it be cool if someone could make such a thing? Then you could preview D-Mods straight from your browser!
November 14th 2009, 12:52 AM
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Voj
Peasant He/Him Belgium
I likes chocolate cheese. 
Someone did tat?
November 14th 2009, 02:08 AM
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ExDeathEvn
Peasant He/Him New Zealand rumble
"Skinny Legend" 
Nop. I'm sure its been suggested though.
November 14th 2009, 04:35 AM
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Striker
Noble She/Her United States
Daniel, there are clowns. 
Actually... I don't think this has been suggested, that I recall. That's not a bad idea.
November 14th 2009, 06:00 AM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
Thread

Though it is mostly about screenshots, it has at least two separate mentions of online dink, one that is thought of as being 'nah, too hard' and the other an MMORPG.
November 14th 2009, 08:09 AM
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DaVince
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Olde Time Dinkere 
It's possible, but if you're going to take the original (or SDL) code it's going to take a long time to properly port and have it cross-browser and cross-platform compatible, I think.

It'd be nice (but a resource hog) if small Dmods could be tested out right on the site this way.
November 14th 2009, 12:02 PM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
The development of HTML5 and the canvas tag do enable an online version of Dink (single player, so playing a D-Mod in the browser). I've played with these things a bit but it's currently infeasible to implement Dink in this manner. As HTML5 and canvas are new technologies, the current implementations in browsers aren't very fast. It's possible to render a map with Dink walking on it but it's still very slow. I've heard that in Google Chrome things run fast enough (not checked myself) but in other browsers, that's not the case.

It would also cost quite some bandwidth to let everyone download all the graphics, scripts and sounds of the game online.

In the long term though, it would be cool. I've also seen JavaScript frameworks in development for game platforms on the web. These don't need to be used of course but others have thought about this as well. So, it can be done but it would require a lot of work.
November 14th 2009, 01:46 PM
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DaVince
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Olde Time Dinkere 
Use JS and be prepared to recode Dink from scratch... That'll take a long time, too. But it'll work.

I actually had a project called JSDink which was Dink recreated in a game development engine that used JavaScript... My goal was to basically remake the engine and allow JS as well as access to the original code, making Dmods able to do a lot more than they could with DinkC. But alas, I abandoned that project in its early stages.
November 14th 2009, 03:54 PM
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schnapper
Peasant He/Him Heard Island And Mcdonald Islands
Let us save our effort and just lie down and die. 
Could flash come into use somehow? (I know nothing about flash or scripting)

"You know nothing of the ways of this world!" - Bum in Fable TLC
November 14th 2009, 04:01 PM
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GlennGlenn
Peasant He/Him Norway
GlennGlenn doesn't want a custom title. 
Java would be better for a web applications rather than JavaScript wouldn't it? Though, I doubt JS is powerful enough, but I don't know really.
November 14th 2009, 04:46 PM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
Java could work but then everybody would need to install that as it's not part of the web browser. In HTML5, the latest version of HTML to create webpages with, there's a canvas element that you can use to draw arbitrary things on using JavaScript. JavaScript is powerful enough for creating an online game but the best thing is that you'd only need to install a web browser and not some plugin. You'd just visit a website and you could play Dink online.
November 14th 2009, 04:50 PM
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Striker
Noble She/Her United States
Daniel, there are clowns. 
Oh for some reason I read that as a "browser version" of Dink. My mind occasionally does some crazy things to the stuff I read.
November 14th 2009, 04:53 PM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
Flash is used a lot for games online but mostly small games (or small compared to games that can be bought in stores) like action or puzzle games. I don't have much experience with Flash but perhaps the lack of large Flash games is telling us something.
November 14th 2009, 07:07 PM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
The thing about epic flah games is, that they take time to load. Most authors use preloader scripts in their flash games so that the entire flash file loads before any of it is of use, so that it plays faster. If the author didn't use a preloader script and just let the flash file load while the client was playing, it could have a performance hit, and gamers would soon be put off.

P.S. I don't like the idea of using flash, it's too different from conventional code. Flash is based on frames which are acted upon by Action script. If someone where to re-write the Dink engine for flash, it would probably only use a couple of frames, but these frames would have an immense amount of Action script in them, which I don't think is what flash was originally designed for. Java or a mix of scripts could be used instead. However, if Javascript were to be used, how would it get moving images on screen without lag? Would all important graphics have to be in memory?
November 14th 2009, 07:50 PM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
Like a website, the player would need to download all the graphics from the server before he'd see them. After that, you can use JavaScript to move them around. You can also cut tiles from tilesets so the tiles don't need to be divided into separate files. I've created a small Dink screen in the web browser with HTML5/canvas but as soon as you try to make it interactive (i.e., Dink walking around), it currently becomes too slow.
November 14th 2009, 08:29 PM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
Would it be a good idea to use Java applets instead then?
November 14th 2009, 08:34 PM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
That could work but then everybody would need to install Java. Although HTML5/canvas isn't very widespread yet, it is the future of the web. If we want to build an online version of Dink, it would be nice to build it in a technology that'll last for quite some time. Plus it's easier for users (only a web browser needed) and it could be nicely integrated with the rest of the website, such as a profile with achievements and showing which D-Mods you've completed, etc.

Edit: perhaps I need to look into it further, in Opera I did manage to run some games smoothly.
November 14th 2009, 09:04 PM
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ExDeathEvn
Peasant He/Him New Zealand rumble
"Skinny Legend" 
@Simeon:
Didn't you know? Everything here is run using Dinkc, even the Dink Network
November 14th 2009, 09:09 PM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
That explains a lot!
November 15th 2009, 12:24 AM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
Example of working canvas tag

I'm sure a web based Dink could be made using similar techniques, the only problem is lag.
November 15th 2009, 02:21 AM
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schnapper
Peasant He/Him Heard Island And Mcdonald Islands
Let us save our effort and just lie down and die. 
Everything here is run using Dinkc, even the Dink Network
So we're basically Communists
November 15th 2009, 03:03 AM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
No, it's a dictatorship
November 15th 2009, 05:27 AM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant They/Them Australia
LOOK UPON MY DEFORMED FACE! 
Everyone already has Java on their PC unless they're running windows 3.1. It would be the only way to implement it. There's an online NES emulator that runs through a java applet. Of course nobody here either knows Java, or cares enough to develop a port.

JavaScript wouldn't work and its a dumb idea to use it, stop talking about it.
November 15th 2009, 07:48 AM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
@yeoldetoast: I don't think you fully realize the possibilities with HTML5/canvas and JavaScript. Why wouldn't it work or why would it be a dumb idea? There are clear advantages over using such open technology rather than relying on Java applets.
November 15th 2009, 10:10 AM
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DaVince
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Olde Time Dinkere 
"Everyone already has Java on their PC unless they're running windows 3.1."

I deliberately do not install Java on my PC. It's much too huge on my small lappy.

Besides, you've been living under a rock if you still think JS is a bad idea for games... JS nowadays is almost as fast as native machine code, unless you still use an ancient browser like IE6, you know? Besides that, people have invented interactive SVG (can use JS for manipulation) and two (!) different 3D libraries using JS for the browsers are on their way! And there's the Canvas object, as mentioned, for proper drawing and rendering as if it were a regular application.

With all the enhancements in browsers' JS it works just fine for games now.
November 16th 2009, 06:15 AM
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YeOldeToasT
Peasant They/Them Australia
LOOK UPON MY DEFORMED FACE! 
If you can show me a demonstration game implemented in JS, DHTML, HTML5, or interactive SVG that isn't a bunch of squares and rectangles, Lemmings, or space invaders etc. I'll reconsider my stance.
November 16th 2009, 07:47 AM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
Actually, you are moving the burden of proof now because it's up to you to justify your claims that "it wouldn't work", "it's a dumb idea" and why we should "stop talking about it".

First, the powerfulness of JavaScript: JavaScript is certainly not like DinkC, it has the features you'd expect from a language and it's used to implement interactive web applications, such as GMail and AJAX-technology, like the JQuery library.

The very fact is that HTML5 is a rather new technology.. it's only available in recent releases of web browsers so it's not surprising that no large scale games have been build in it yet (as opposed to proof of concepts): although development of HTML5 started years ago, it wasn't available to a wide audience (i.e., the average user). I'm talking about HTML5 here, not JavaScript because that is around for a long time.

Like I said earlier, the implementations of HTML5/canvas in some browers are currently too slow which hinders development of large scale games too. But does that mean HTML5/canvas/SVG is incapable of doing so? Far from it because it allows arbitrary 2D (and 3D) drawing operations which makes it very suitable for game development (drawing tiles, drawing sprites, etc) and JavaScript enables interactivity of the game elements. Take, for example, this article.

When something is not here today does not mean it will not be here tomorrow.
November 16th 2009, 07:54 AM
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ExDeathEvn
Peasant He/Him New Zealand rumble
"Skinny Legend" 
All I can say (in favor of Javascript) is Runescape.
November 16th 2009, 07:55 AM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
Runescape is written in Java, which is different from JavaScript.
November 16th 2009, 08:09 AM
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ExDeathEvn
Peasant He/Him New Zealand rumble
"Skinny Legend" 
Correction; it's written in Runescript
Seriously, JaGex call it Runescript!
November 16th 2009, 01:27 PM
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DaVince
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Olde Time Dinkere 
lol, good one ExDeathEvn. But yeah, JS definitely isn't Java.

YeOldeToasT hasn't been paying attention to news on the web at all... Fact is, JS is getting like 10 times faster than it ever was, and improving. There have been several little impressive applications written with modern web techniques as shown on Slashdot and other major news sites, like this little video showing a pair of hands in which you can then put an image, video, text etc.

Look around for nice HTML5 and modern JS demonstrations yourself. There are a few nice things, and games have finally become a feasible thing to do in browsers without needing anything extras.

Btw, you already defeated your entire point by mentioning the DHTML Lemmings game... and the funny thing is, that's actually quite old so it's even more impressive for its time. Imagine what we can do with the web now!
November 17th 2009, 12:22 AM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
It's important to be able to distinguish between Java and Javascript.

Although the technology is here today, it is relatively slow, so development of a cross platform 'online' Dink may have to be post-poned until canvas drawing becomes more efficient and faster to render.

I think most new browsers support the tag, but still not well enough to be fast.
November 22nd 2009, 09:20 AM
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Simeon
Peasant He/Him Netherlands
Any fool can use a computer. Many do. 
I've just checked: the JavaScript engine in Google Chrome is fast enough to start development of a web version of Dink. Initially, I thought the only downside would be that it would still be singleplayer but after searching for a bit, it seems HTML5 will also support sockets so that would allow multiplayer.
November 24th 2009, 12:22 AM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
Cool, but the thing is, what type of Dink game do you guys want on the internet?

A clone of the original, with enhancements?
A multiplayer version?
A version that allows you to choose from a variety of already available D-Mods to preview?

Depending on what you want, it may be able to do.
November 24th 2009, 04:21 AM
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schnapper
Peasant He/Him Heard Island And Mcdonald Islands
Let us save our effort and just lie down and die. 
I reckon the original campaign plus, say the top 5 DMODs of all time would be sweet, but it might be expensive to host thingy.
November 24th 2009, 04:33 AM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
The bandwidth may be a problem, though web space shouldn't be too much of an issue. How are we going to choose the best five D-Mods of all time? There are more to come...

Let's get voting then! My first vote goes to Necromancer, and my second vote goes to ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ!
November 24th 2009, 05:36 PM
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schnapper
Peasant He/Him Heard Island And Mcdonald Islands
Let us save our effort and just lie down and die. 
first vote goes to Necromancer, and my second vote goes to ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
Oh dear! My first vote goes to Stone of Balance, second, to Cycles of Evil
November 24th 2009, 06:59 PM
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DinkKiller
Peasant He/Him United States
The world could always use more heroes 
Stone of Balance, Prophecy of the Ancients
November 25th 2009, 02:40 AM
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Fireball5
Peasant He/Him Australia
Let me heat that up for you... 
Maybe we should open a thread to vote for the top five D-Mods of all time.
November 25th 2009, 03:53 AM
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Skull
Peasant He/Him Finland bloop
A Disembodied Sod 
Cloud Castle 2, Prophecy of the Ancients.