Did play Dink on the web revive the series activity ?
Now this might sound like a diss track but back when most of us were pushing seth and redink to work towards putting out dink on some of the modern platforms like steam & gog, i was a bit surprised when they announced that we all will be able to play dink and all the mods online directly and this was the right future for dink.
http://www.dinknetwork.com/forum.cgi?MID=202663&Posts=30
Now i was taken by surprise when redink made this statement.
"From my view, the Web also trumps the gaming-specific platforms that some members of our community has been wishing Dink would be on (such as Steam or GOG). Now, playing Dink is a click away, and we just need to make it discoverable for those who might be interested."
I was stunned by this statement but i thought you know what , lets see if it works , i did my part posting this new method of playing online on forums , twitter etc and decided to take a break from here to see if it worked.
So has it worked ? Was this the right direction for dink smallwood future ? I and others believed and still believe the best way forward is to let dink be played the modern way aka on gog / steam / windows store what not.
Each and every concern that we have had on steam has been cleared by valve each time, last time it was the content of the dmods that might cause issue but now valve has started to allow uncensored / adult games on the platform.
https://steamed.kotaku.com/steam-approves-100-percent-uncensored-adult-game-neglig-1828980122
So now what more reasons and excuses do we have to give to avoid putting dink smallwood out on steam ?
I can understand that change is a pain for some but it has to happen if we want dink smallwood to be enjoyed by more people who just tend to think the world of games today is just PUBG and fortnight....
I dont think the right way to incite activity on the game is by bumping old dead threads and spamming on old dead development dmod threads....
I would love to see what dmods the new generation can come up with if they played the game with their minecraft experience.....
http://www.dinknetwork.com/forum.cgi?MID=202663&Posts=30
Now i was taken by surprise when redink made this statement.
"From my view, the Web also trumps the gaming-specific platforms that some members of our community has been wishing Dink would be on (such as Steam or GOG). Now, playing Dink is a click away, and we just need to make it discoverable for those who might be interested."
I was stunned by this statement but i thought you know what , lets see if it works , i did my part posting this new method of playing online on forums , twitter etc and decided to take a break from here to see if it worked.
So has it worked ? Was this the right direction for dink smallwood future ? I and others believed and still believe the best way forward is to let dink be played the modern way aka on gog / steam / windows store what not.
Each and every concern that we have had on steam has been cleared by valve each time, last time it was the content of the dmods that might cause issue but now valve has started to allow uncensored / adult games on the platform.
https://steamed.kotaku.com/steam-approves-100-percent-uncensored-adult-game-neglig-1828980122
So now what more reasons and excuses do we have to give to avoid putting dink smallwood out on steam ?
I can understand that change is a pain for some but it has to happen if we want dink smallwood to be enjoyed by more people who just tend to think the world of games today is just PUBG and fortnight....
I dont think the right way to incite activity on the game is by bumping old dead threads and spamming on old dead development dmod threads....
I would love to see what dmods the new generation can come up with if they played the game with their minecraft experience.....
TBH this is not enough. What Dink Smallwood really needs to revive is to improve the engine itself, sure there's FreeDink but this is not enough.
Just look at other older games that got their source code released, such as Quake or Doom. Their engine has been improved so much you can do loads of stuff that are impossible to make on a original engine. So far DS has PNG support, both officially and unofficially (an exploit in FreeDink) but the map editors don't support em.
EDIT: Speaking of the map editor. That too needs some improvements, it is just too primitive and uncomfortable to use, sure there is WinDinkEdit but so far there hasn't been an option to create an area which the script would start other than do it by typing it itself for example (and it's a pain to do it), along with the fact that it's not crossplatform.
Just look at other older games that got their source code released, such as Quake or Doom. Their engine has been improved so much you can do loads of stuff that are impossible to make on a original engine. So far DS has PNG support, both officially and unofficially (an exploit in FreeDink) but the map editors don't support em.
EDIT: Speaking of the map editor. That too needs some improvements, it is just too primitive and uncomfortable to use, sure there is WinDinkEdit but so far there hasn't been an option to create an area which the script would start other than do it by typing it itself for example (and it's a pain to do it), along with the fact that it's not crossplatform.
I thought the latest dink hd introduced changes to the engine ?
haven't people over on the gog platform been wanting a dink release?
gotta listen to your players/potential players, man.
gotta listen to your players/potential players, man.
@ liquid141, Skurn (and others):
Sorry if I missed some historical part of the discussion, that already went over this matter sometime earlier, but I feel I must bring it up. Please forgive me if this present posting you are reading covers ground we have been over before.
As we all know there exists within our dmod library the occasional inclusion of materials that might be okay under a "fair use" policy of freeware, but might not be okay as a part of a "pay to play" platform. Would these platforms be willing to use the same materials in a "for profit" context?
Alternatively, even if these platforms are okay with this situation, are we exposing dmod authors to possible legal recourse by someone who thinks their copyrighted material was stolen once we (the DN) start participating in a money making business that uses any of these types of troublesome dmods?
As I understand it, European Union legal copyright matters (both present and pending) may make this issue an even more complicated one. Check out this article --> EU Gives Up On The Open Web Experiment, Decides It Will Be The Licensed Web Going Forward .
To me, this issue seems to me to be the greatest stumbling block, WAY beyond any technical issues. But, maybe that is just me and the way I see things.
Sorry if I missed some historical part of the discussion, that already went over this matter sometime earlier, but I feel I must bring it up. Please forgive me if this present posting you are reading covers ground we have been over before.
As we all know there exists within our dmod library the occasional inclusion of materials that might be okay under a "fair use" policy of freeware, but might not be okay as a part of a "pay to play" platform. Would these platforms be willing to use the same materials in a "for profit" context?
Alternatively, even if these platforms are okay with this situation, are we exposing dmod authors to possible legal recourse by someone who thinks their copyrighted material was stolen once we (the DN) start participating in a money making business that uses any of these types of troublesome dmods?
As I understand it, European Union legal copyright matters (both present and pending) may make this issue an even more complicated one. Check out this article --> EU Gives Up On The Open Web Experiment, Decides It Will Be The Licensed Web Going Forward .
To me, this issue seems to me to be the greatest stumbling block, WAY beyond any technical issues. But, maybe that is just me and the way I see things.
they're not for profit, though. people would pay (if even) for Dink and then the rest is fanmade.
@Skurn:
I'm confused. Both GOG and Steam look like (for profit) businesses to me.
The Steam Summer Sale 2018 has begun | PC Gamer
[GOG] Summer Sale - GOG.com
It still seems to me that if either business decided to offer Dink Smallwood online, they would be using Dink to make money, even though Dink and dmods themselves are free. These websites would (in effect, after the customer plays the original Dink Smallwood adventure) be using the DN to make money for a business through the use of "fan made" dmods (at least a few of which have uncertain copyright status). Am I missing something? I've never become a customer of either of these websites.
I'm confused. Both GOG and Steam look like (for profit) businesses to me.
The Steam Summer Sale 2018 has begun | PC Gamer
[GOG] Summer Sale - GOG.com
It still seems to me that if either business decided to offer Dink Smallwood online, they would be using Dink to make money, even though Dink and dmods themselves are free. These websites would (in effect, after the customer plays the original Dink Smallwood adventure) be using the DN to make money for a business through the use of "fan made" dmods (at least a few of which have uncertain copyright status). Am I missing something? I've never become a customer of either of these websites.
theres a ton of free stuff on both platforms. they make their money when a game is submitted.
Not sure if you missed the previous discussion @slipdink but the best thoughts among the community is that we only release the base game and not the dmods to avoid all that issue , later down the pipeline we can either release the workshop support which allows anyone to release their dmods on their own at their own risk or , just allow the in game dmod downloader in the dink hd to work as it does.
Or go the classic route aka you visit here and download the dmods and install them manually.
Also search for some of the free to play games on steam to understand how they work, you dont have to pay anything if it means free ,
Also this is how the workshop looks example used genesis collection on steam.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/34270/workshop/
Or go the classic route aka you visit here and download the dmods and install them manually.
Also search for some of the free to play games on steam to understand how they work, you dont have to pay anything if it means free ,
Also this is how the workshop looks example used genesis collection on steam.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/34270/workshop/
@ Skurn:
> theres a ton of free stuff on both platforms. they make their money when a game is submitted.
I must misunderstand you.
Do you mean that game developers pay to put their games on these platforms and then no user later pays these platforms to use the games? That seems to make little sense.
Sorry if I am seeming to be a little dense here.
> theres a ton of free stuff on both platforms. they make their money when a game is submitted.
I must misunderstand you.
Do you mean that game developers pay to put their games on these platforms and then no user later pays these platforms to use the games? That seems to make little sense.
Sorry if I am seeming to be a little dense here.
@ liquid141:
> Not sure if you missed the previous discussion @slipdink but the best thoughts among the community
Ummm, if I did not actually miss "the previous discussion", I seem to have somehow missed or forgotten about some key points. Thanks for your patience.
> is that we only release the base game and not the dmods to avoid all that issue,
Okay, that seems safe. (By "safe" here, I mean safe from any(*) copyright issues.)
later down the pipeline we can either release the workshop support which allows anyone to release their dmods on their own at their own risk or
So this would mean I would (for example) decide whether to release my "All that Glitters" dmod on the "workshop" section of one or more of these platforms, right? Okay, that seems fairly safe too.
, just allow the in game dmod downloader in the dink hd to work as it does.
Hmmmm. This seems possibly less safe.
Or go the classic route aka you visit here and download the dmods and install them manually.
I'd hate to see what could happen to the DN if the concept of "fair use" continues to be eroded, but I guess things are relatively safe in this context. This is IMHO probably the safest route.
Also search for some of the free to play games on steam to understand how they work, you dont have to pay anything if it means free ,
This seems to be a little bit of a grey area, but thanks for bringing it to my attention. Steam still makes money here when you sign up, right?
I went to https://store.steampowered.com/genre/Free%20to%20Play/ and saw that the [FEATURED DLC New content for free to play games] list showed that each game in the list had a price tags on it.
Also this is how the workshop looks example used genesis collection on steam.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/34270/workshop/
(*)Either USA or EU copyright issues, or any other that I don't even know about yet.
> Not sure if you missed the previous discussion @slipdink but the best thoughts among the community
Ummm, if I did not actually miss "the previous discussion", I seem to have somehow missed or forgotten about some key points. Thanks for your patience.
> is that we only release the base game and not the dmods to avoid all that issue,
Okay, that seems safe. (By "safe" here, I mean safe from any(*) copyright issues.)
later down the pipeline we can either release the workshop support which allows anyone to release their dmods on their own at their own risk or
So this would mean I would (for example) decide whether to release my "All that Glitters" dmod on the "workshop" section of one or more of these platforms, right? Okay, that seems fairly safe too.
, just allow the in game dmod downloader in the dink hd to work as it does.
Hmmmm. This seems possibly less safe.
Or go the classic route aka you visit here and download the dmods and install them manually.
I'd hate to see what could happen to the DN if the concept of "fair use" continues to be eroded, but I guess things are relatively safe in this context. This is IMHO probably the safest route.
Also search for some of the free to play games on steam to understand how they work, you dont have to pay anything if it means free ,
This seems to be a little bit of a grey area, but thanks for bringing it to my attention. Steam still makes money here when you sign up, right?
I went to https://store.steampowered.com/genre/Free%20to%20Play/ and saw that the [FEATURED DLC New content for free to play games] list showed that each game in the list had a price tags on it.
Also this is how the workshop looks example used genesis collection on steam.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/34270/workshop/
(*)Either USA or EU copyright issues, or any other that I don't even know about yet.
@slipdink
The developer pays to put his game on steam, if he decides its free , the users will not pay anything. You can create a gog account / steam account for free you dont have to pay anything. You can also download any game that is marked free on both platforms.
What the trend now in releasing free games on steam is that , sometimes the community feels they would like to contribute to dev after playing the free game, so in this game , the dev can release paid dlcs that users can purchase but the main game will be free.
Slip you can try this out , this full free adventure game was released on steam, thanks to its popularity the dev added a paid dlc but you dont need it to play the game.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/283880/Heroines_Quest_The_Herald_of_Ragnarok/
Now lets say the game is out on steam and you want to release All that Glitters for it the main ways are
A) Safest just release your dmod here and probably just post a link on the game discussion thread that the game will have.
Positives - dont have to worry about any copyright issues.
negative - users will have to hunt out to get your dmod / given how automatic stuff is today might get ignored.
B) Add your dmod to the steam workshop this will mean you will have to make sure that dmod does not have any stolen copyright material aka it can be taken down [Only when someone reports it to valve] ,
Positive - Your dmod will have a lot of audience to play as it is accessible right on steam, you can also release patches directly on it and everyone gets it automatically.
Negative - can get taken down if someone reports it for copyright theft and its proven.
Now Going even more wild , lets say the free game release is supremely popular the group of dmoders here can get together and even work on releasing paid dmods for the game as dlcs, it could spark a new wave considering people can get paid for their work as well.
The possibilities are endless.
Also i would like to point out that valve are also working on linux support as well with their custom wrapper
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3299641/gaming/steam-adds-proton-making-windows-games-playable-on-linux.html
So probably beuc can check it out.
The developer pays to put his game on steam, if he decides its free , the users will not pay anything. You can create a gog account / steam account for free you dont have to pay anything. You can also download any game that is marked free on both platforms.
What the trend now in releasing free games on steam is that , sometimes the community feels they would like to contribute to dev after playing the free game, so in this game , the dev can release paid dlcs that users can purchase but the main game will be free.
Slip you can try this out , this full free adventure game was released on steam, thanks to its popularity the dev added a paid dlc but you dont need it to play the game.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/283880/Heroines_Quest_The_Herald_of_Ragnarok/
Now lets say the game is out on steam and you want to release All that Glitters for it the main ways are
A) Safest just release your dmod here and probably just post a link on the game discussion thread that the game will have.
Positives - dont have to worry about any copyright issues.
negative - users will have to hunt out to get your dmod / given how automatic stuff is today might get ignored.
B) Add your dmod to the steam workshop this will mean you will have to make sure that dmod does not have any stolen copyright material aka it can be taken down [Only when someone reports it to valve] ,
Positive - Your dmod will have a lot of audience to play as it is accessible right on steam, you can also release patches directly on it and everyone gets it automatically.
Negative - can get taken down if someone reports it for copyright theft and its proven.
Now Going even more wild , lets say the free game release is supremely popular the group of dmoders here can get together and even work on releasing paid dmods for the game as dlcs, it could spark a new wave considering people can get paid for their work as well.
The possibilities are endless.
Also i would like to point out that valve are also working on linux support as well with their custom wrapper
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3299641/gaming/steam-adds-proton-making-windows-games-playable-on-linux.html
So probably beuc can check it out.
I don't like Steam Workshop at all, what it does now is cause the dev to be lazy with implementing the mod support outside Steam and even tie the mod tools to it.
For example, Shadwen on GOG doesn't have any map editor because it is locked to Steam Workshop. Hotline Miami 2 also had that and it took 6 months to make the map editor available outsite SW.
For example, Shadwen on GOG doesn't have any map editor because it is locked to Steam Workshop. Hotline Miami 2 also had that and it took 6 months to make the map editor available outsite SW.
@liquid141:
Thank you for your excellent detailed analysis. It seems that we might be able to skirt copyright issues if this is done carefully.
I looked at https://store.steampowered.com/app/283880/Heroines_Quest_The_Herald_of_Ragnarok/. The video teaser for it was impressive. However, as I do not use any of the supported operating systems(*), I did not sign up. But thanks for bringing the game to my attention.
(*) In case you are wondering, I use a 16.04 (not even close to the latest) version of Ubuntu, since my graphics card is not very well supported by the later versions AND (occasionally) I boot into Windoze Vista.
Thank you for your excellent detailed analysis. It seems that we might be able to skirt copyright issues if this is done carefully.
I looked at https://store.steampowered.com/app/283880/Heroines_Quest_The_Herald_of_Ragnarok/. The video teaser for it was impressive. However, as I do not use any of the supported operating systems(*), I did not sign up. But thanks for bringing the game to my attention.
(*) In case you are wondering, I use a 16.04 (not even close to the latest) version of Ubuntu, since my graphics card is not very well supported by the later versions AND (occasionally) I boot into Windoze Vista.
@ liquid141:
> You can install steam for Linux
Really? I have 16.04 installed and 18.04 is the latest. The https://store.steampowered.com/join/?redir=checkout%2Faddfreelicense%2F39166 page shows Ubuntu Linux (latest version) as an option. I don't plan to upgrade to 18.04 any time soon since my graphics board is not well supported by that version.
> You can install steam for Linux
Really? I have 16.04 installed and 18.04 is the latest. The https://store.steampowered.com/join/?redir=checkout%2Faddfreelicense%2F39166 page shows Ubuntu Linux (latest version) as an option. I don't plan to upgrade to 18.04 any time soon since my graphics board is not well supported by that version.
