The Dink Network

The Alienic connection

April 8th 2013, 08:08 AM
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karan42
Peasant He/Him India
Learn something new everyday 
between the pyramids,are they made by aliens?
Is it possible that they open some kind of dimensional gate way?
Not only the pyramid of Giza but all pyramids world wide create some kind of a energetic field,things placed in them seem to have their energy multiplied.And the food and water for the pharaohs remarkably ok.
Each pyramid seems to be connected to the Belt of Orion and the three pyramids of Giza are shaped perfectly like the Belt of Orion is it possible that the pyramids were built by aliens?Or at-least under the supervision of aliens?

A documentary on History TV 18 told me about most of this.
A scientist did an experiment on the top of the pyramid he made an artificial pyramid and then rotated it a huge energy bubble formed and the pyramid started floating exactly to wards what would be Orion's Belt the scientist died of a brain hemerage SOMETHING FROM THE SKY HIT HIM ON THE HEAD THAT SOMETHING HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND!!could it be the aliens shutting him up?
April 8th 2013, 01:08 PM
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Ghep
Ghost They/Them
 
What the hear did I just hell?
April 8th 2013, 07:19 PM
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Absolutely not. I remember reading about the pyramid power thing, it was just nonsense. The pyramids themselves are impressive constructs, but there's nothing there that people today couldn't build with ancient tools. There's no reason to assume the advanced civilization of Egypt couldn't figure it out.
April 8th 2013, 09:43 PM
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Skull
Peasant He/Him Finland bloop
A Disembodied Sod 
Absolutely not. I remember reading about the pyramid power thing, it was just nonsense. The pyramids themselves are impressive constructs, but there's nothing there that people today couldn't build with ancient tools. There's no reason to assume the advanced civilization of Egypt couldn't figure it out.

Fact is, no matter what they say, people with today's technology wouldn't be able to build the Pyramids. I have doubts people back then would have. Even cutting the stones would have been impossible with their tools, let alone transfer them. There's also the question how come there would be such similar constructions all around the World, when we're to assume there were no connections between the people back then. By the way, these people who claim humans around the globe back then, had no connection to each other, are the same people who claim the people who built the Pyramids did it with their ancient tools.

One thing I've learned about history, is that most historical "facts" are just the absolute opposite of truth. Comments like Scratcher's make me mad, because they state these "facts", without doing any reasearch into the topic. Egyptians themselves have written stories about all these different "magic tricks", that were used to build the Pyramids.
April 8th 2013, 10:39 PM
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Leprochaun
Peasant He/Him Japan bloop
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
While aliens coming down to build the pyramids to shape the Belt of Orion is possible, it feels pretty dang far fetched to me. Just saying aliens built it/ or assisted in the construction would be more likely. However it still feels less likely than the egyptians doing it themselves.

So, what's the significance of Orion's Belt?

While I do believe there are life forms other than us in the universe, I have strong doubts that any have made contact with us yet. Nor will they for quite some time. To them we're probably nothing more than a group of mass-producing insects with an insatiable hunger for power.

You're free to believe what you want, but I'll stick to the one that's more believable to me.
April 8th 2013, 11:42 PM
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karan42
Peasant He/Him India
Learn something new everyday 
as the article said there are no blueprints of the pyramids
the Egyptians never mentioned the pyramids so is it not possible that the pyramids were built earlier around 10,000 B.C. perhaps?
April 9th 2013, 12:21 AM
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Skull: You believe most historical facts are wrong because you revel in crazy conspiracy theories.

Egyptian pyramid construction techniques

There's also the question how come there would be such similar constructions all around the World, when we're to assume there were no connections between the people back then.

So where do aliens enter the picture? There are so many sensible explanations it's a mind-boggling logical leap to think that extraterrestrials would have been involved.

Are they even similar? The Mexican and Egyptian pyramids barely resemble each other beyond the obvious, in form or function. If aliens ferried people all over the globe, why would there be such differences based on geography?

Of course, history lies about the pyramids' function too. The Mexican pyramids are probably used as landing pads by the Zuyrlga, while the Egyptian pyramids are reserved for the Sdlfijsdklfj. Those scumbag aliens never did learn how to get along with each other on holiday!
April 9th 2013, 12:29 AM
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karan42
Peasant He/Him India
Learn something new everyday 
It could be possible that the other life forms in the world have come from the belt of orion stars and just like modern day countries they disliked each other and thus had different pyramids
April 9th 2013, 03:31 AM
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metatarasal
Bard He/Him Netherlands
I object 
If all those aliens could build was a couple of piramids they're pretty pathetic. They even didn't remember what the proper angle for building a pirimid was...
April 9th 2013, 03:43 AM
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duckhater
Peasant He/Him India
From The Depths Of Tartarus Itself 
Maybe their methods of cutting those stones and the rest of the stuff were just lost to history? They must've kept it secret till their graves... Like Greek fire.
April 9th 2013, 05:27 AM
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Skull
Peasant He/Him Finland bloop
A Disembodied Sod 
Ok, be prepared for a looong answer.

Skull: You believe most historical facts are wrong because you revel in crazy conspiracy theories.

Not any conspiracy theories. It's true that most of our historical "facts" are just a bunch of lies. And if not straight-up lies, then just honest mistakes, that got mixed up during time. Schools are a good example. The way they teach history to children, is by telling them what they're allowed to know. Take this for example; I read a newspaper article from the 70s or 80s one time, where most school-aged children actually thought Native Americans were just fictional people from Wild West -movies. That is how easily history gets mixed up.

Egyptian pyramid construction techniques

Ok, that's a bunch of bull. None of the techniques they CLAIM work, actually do. If they did, why don't they go build their own Pyramid on a desert? Oh wait, they can't. It's just all a bunch of theories.

EDIT: No actually, they did try to build some small construction once, but they ended up giving up, after they couldn't lift one megalith, with like 20+ cranes. IIRC, those megaliths weren't even as big nor heavy as the ones used in the Egyptian Pyramids, but on that I could just remember wrong.

Also, this makes me wonder how they would suggest the halls under the Egyptian Pyramids were built? I'd say building those would be pretty dang hard. Even for aliens, to be quite honest.

So where do aliens enter the picture? There are so many sensible explanations it's a mind-boggling logical leap to think that extraterrestrials would have been involved.

It could be extraterrestrials that connected the people around Earth somehow. But I'm not saying, and don't actually believe, that's the reason. I'm just pointing out that the "historical fact", that people back then had no connection over continents, is plain absurd when you look at all the facts. If I had to point out where aliens get involved in this, I'd probably say they would somehow be involved in why these Pyramids were built. It doesn't make any sense for people across the Earth to start suddenly building similar constructions. Also, there are interesting links between them. Such as being built in the shape of Orion's Belt. Btw, not only the Pyramids were built this way, but there are literally tons of old constructions around the globe that have been shaped after it.

Are they even similar? The Mexican and Egyptian pyramids barely resemble each other beyond the obvious, in form or function. If aliens ferried people all over the globe, why would there be such differences based on geography?

Maybe different functions? Maybe an improvement? Or maybe just different culturial aspects. Houses are built in different ways, but that doesn't take away from their basic idea.

Also, just want to point out, I don't actually believe there's any weird "function" in these Pyramids. I could be wrong, of course. One thing that is true though, is that not all the Pyramids were used as graves, like claimed. Another fact is that in those which were used as graves, it was most likely not their main function.

Of course, this conversation could be led way away from the topic of the Pyramids, and into all sorts of other stuff (usually to do with religions). All I'm saying is, maybe try to keep an open mind about things, and not always swallow everything we're told to.
April 9th 2013, 06:24 AM
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karan42
Peasant He/Him India
Learn something new everyday 
The Maya believed that their pyramids should have a temple on top so the "God" could rest and then continue their journey maybe these "Gods" did not like the Egyptian pyramid because of the pain in the bottom so they must have gone to South America
April 9th 2013, 08:36 AM
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metatarasal
Bard He/Him Netherlands
I object 
Ok, that's a bunch of bull. None of the techniques they CLAIM work, actually do. If they did, why don't they go build their own Pyramid on a desert? Oh wait, they can't. It's just all a bunch of theories.

There may be a few other reasons as well, such as:

- It's pretty costly building a piramid this way
- It's pretty pointless building a new piramid in the desert.
- Occupational health and safety laws are a bit more strict these days.

Big piramids are actually being build in the desert. (Example) Just not using old fashioned techniques, because why would you?

And just because buildings are similar does not mean that there has been contact. For example throughout the world a bridge is the most common structure used for crossing bodies of water. This does not imply that there is some secret society of engineers that has mandated bridges to be used. It may actually just be the best solution for a common problem.

Similarly a piramid may be a very sensible structure to build if some powerful ruler decides that he wants to build something very large that will last for a long time.

All I'm saying is, maybe try to keep an open mind about things, and not always swallow everything we're told to.

Be very very careful when someone says this when making some claim. It usually means you shouldn't swallow everything everybody else tells you but you should swallow whatever they're telling you. When I look at things I don't see any evidence aliens built the piramids. Sounds rather pointless for them too actually...
April 9th 2013, 09:26 AM
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Skull
Peasant He/Him Finland bloop
A Disembodied Sod 
Nevermind. I'm gonna post a reply to all that later.
April 9th 2013, 10:28 AM
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Quiztis
Peasant He/Him Sweden bloop
Life? What's that? Can I download it?! 
Humans built the pyramids, nothing else.
April 9th 2013, 12:02 PM
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Kyle
Peasant He/Him Belgium
 
This is the best semi-conspiracy theory documentary I've seen about the pyramids: Revelation of the Pyramids. It's a feature length documentary that everyone should watch imo (it won some prizes too), sceptics and believers alike It helps that it's also very entertaining to watch.

I was a huge sceptic before I saw this documentary and I'm sure there's still a whole lot of made up stuff in there, but some of it pans out and is mighty conspicuous. There's a fair few "Omg really??" moments in there.

Have fun with it

April 9th 2013, 01:29 PM
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shevek
Ghost They/Them
 
Ok, be prepared for a looong answer.

Likewise.

It's true that most of our historical "facts" are just a bunch of lies.

Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. (Napoleon Bonaparte)

Schools are a good example.

The example you give shows that schools are not very effective at teaching, not that any malice is involved (it can be, but you didn't prove it).

Egyptian pyramid construction techniques

I do not know much about this. It is obvious that building a Pyramid is a huge undertaking. It doesn't seem impossible to me, that a highly hierarchical society with a lunatic at the top is capable of "wasting" so much energy in a project and accomplish it. I agree that, for financial and logistical reasons, this would be very hard, if at all possible, with today's society. Unless, indeed, the building is used to make money.

I'm just pointing out that the "historical fact", that people back then had no connection over continents, is plain absurd when you look at all the facts.

Not at all. A pyramid is the most logical structure if you want flat walls which are not vertical (which is a good thing for such large structures; vertical walls fall over too easily). It's very symmetrical, which is pleasing to humans.

Yes, pyramids could be built with aliens. But they could as well have been built without them. If all else is equal, I prefer simpler explanations over more complex ones.

Houses are built in different ways, but that doesn't take away from their basic idea.

Ehm, wait. Are you saying that if two people both think that building a house is a good idea, they must have had contact? I would think that the need for a house is something that people can come up with by themselves. All houses have in common that they are attempts to make a safe place to stay in, without being "attacked" by nature (animals or weather). Houses look very different in different places (as do pyramids). Wanting one is not something that requires a genius (or an alien).

Such as being built in the shape of Orion's Belt.

This is actually a pretty strong argument against them being built by aliens, if anything.

First of all, Orion's belt consists of three stars which are approximately on a line with equal distances. So the first question is: how exact is their positioning "like Orion's belt"? Are the pyramids just approximately on a line with equal distances? I sure hope you agree that that isn't enough to consider a connection with Orion's belt. But what if they are very exactly lined out in the same way?

On first thought, that would suggest that "people" from those stars came here and built a model of their home world.

But on second thought, that is nonsense. The stars that make up Orion's belt only look close together from where we are; they are really very far apart. (Actually, for astronomical measures, they are pretty close, but pretty close means there's more than 600 light years between them, while the closest is only 700 light years from us: we're "pretty close" to them as well)

And what's more, their respective position is only the way we see it from where we are. Them building structures here to resemble the belt, is like someone from Stockholm traveling to London, and then making a drawing of his home: the group of cities Kopenhagen, Amsterdam, Berlin, and Stockholm (which are all sort of in the same direction from London). If those cities would be visible in the sky from London, people living there might well say they are related. But people from those cities would disagree.

For that reason, if aliens would build stuff here in the shape of their home, it would certainly not be in the shape that Orion's belt happens to have in our sky. Because that is not a shape they associate with their home.

If human astronomers were involved in the placement, however, then the belt could be a source of inspiration. Hence, as I wrote, this argument is stronger against aliens than in favor of them.

All I'm saying is, maybe try to keep an open mind about things, and not always swallow everything we're told to.

That is certainly a good idea. Still, you will usually believe something, even if only until you have a better explanation. Not believing anything "they" tell you isn't a very usable strategy. Most people are well-meaning, and when they tell you something, that is because they believe it to be true. You shouldn't blindly believe them, indeed. But others believing in something is a good indication that it may contain some truth.

Thinking for yourself is a good idea, but you can't think about everything. If you want to spend your brainpower effectively, you can think mostly about things which many people disagree about. Which leads you to religion and politics.

Or you can think about things which are not disputed, but simply unknown. That leads you to being a scientist, which is a lot more fun than telling people why their religion is wrong.
April 9th 2013, 04:32 PM
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shevek
Ghost They/Them
 
This is the best semi-conspiracy theory documentary I've seen about the pyramids

Thanks for sharing, it was interesting to watch. Still, it gave me more of a "that's too far-fetched"-feeling than "they have a point".

Especially the parts about the numbers don't make much sense. I mean, how special is it, that a culture which is capable of building huge structures with great precision, is also capable of dividing the circumference of a circle by its diameter? And why would the meter be so special? Appearantly, those guys would go through great lengths, just to have everything be presented in nice numbers, but only after we convert them to a unit they were not using... Sorry, but that doesn't sound very convincing to me.

I have several more problems with it, but I won't waste my time on explaining them. Or more nicely said: I'll leave them as an exercise for the reader.

I certainly did like the idea that the pyramids could have been built long before the Egyptians. But I don't think their conclusion makes all that much sense.
April 9th 2013, 05:38 PM
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Ghep
Ghost They/Them
 
the best kind of theory is the one with the simplest reason.
April 9th 2013, 05:40 PM
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Quiztis
Peasant He/Him Sweden bloop
Life? What's that? Can I download it?! 
Don't think like this: "The egyptians couldn't have built the pyramids because man, building those things must've been impossible for those dudes! and the burial tombs? Waaay too impossible for the time being. Carrying rectangular rocks up slopes with ropes? No way, it must'a been aliens lol"

That's just a plain stupid way to think and it's the only thing backing alien-theorists up if you think about it. "WOOHHAHAHH DEY APPEARED OUTTA NOWHERE!!" biatch, please. There is a very sensible explanation for this:

The egyptians were not anywhere near as primitive as you think. They were extremely well-developed and could handle mathematics, writing, religion all those things and they were very good craftsmen especially when working with stone. The building of the pyramids took a great deal of time and men to get it done, it's nothing different from a building schedule today (if we look away from the 20 year time per pyramid or so). 25000 workers/slaves and you're good to go. All this from a vast and powerful civilization from the past ruled under one king from time to time.
April 9th 2013, 05:51 PM
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Skull
Peasant He/Him Finland bloop
A Disembodied Sod 
My arguement stands. We could not build the Pyramids, in a similar way, today. Which means the Ancient Egyptians rather obviously wouldn't have been able to build them with their primitive tools, that they are said to have used.

I'm not going to bother with any long replies, after all, because it seems people here are just aggressively trying to label the history our civilization teaches us, as the only possible way anything could've ever happened. For me, this provokes no interest in a conversation about the subject.

I just feel people should use more common sense, instead of buying everything our society states as fact.
April 9th 2013, 08:41 PM
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EDIT: No actually, they did try to build some small construction once, but they ended up giving up, after they couldn't lift one megalith, with like 20+ cranes.

My arguement stands. We could not build the Pyramids, in a similar way, today. Which means the Ancient Egyptians rather obviously wouldn't have been able to build them with their primitive tools, that they are said to have used.


Watch this video, it's the pyramid building experiment that was mentioned in the Wikipedia link I gave earlier. It's superb, very informative on the practical aspects of building a pyramid. They didn't finish their little pyramid, but the proof of concept is undeniable.

Being open-minded is one thing, being critical and looking at evidence objectively is useful too.

Thanks for sharing, it was interesting to watch. Still, it gave me more of a "that's too far-fetched"-feeling than "they have a point".

Yeah, that's exactly the way I felt too. It was good until it started focusing on the numerology and line drawing... Ugh.
April 10th 2013, 12:42 AM
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karan42
Peasant He/Him India
Learn something new everyday 
Time travel is it possible in the near future yes can it be that the aliens were humans from the future a Buddhist scroll had a circular picture through which people used to disappear and reappear this picture looks like the current time experiment going on in Geneva COINCIDENCE?!?
April 10th 2013, 12:45 AM
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leprochaun
Peasant He/Him Japan bloop
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Time travel is not a possible thing. It's either a dimensional shift- which can never be proven and also wouldn't be time travel, or it breaks the laws of nature and therefor cannot exist without erasing the existence of everything.
April 10th 2013, 12:51 AM
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leprochaun
Peasant He/Him Japan bloop
Responsible for making things not look like ass 
Although I suppose you could cheat and say that one-way time travel is possible and actively happening.
April 10th 2013, 02:14 AM
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Quiztis
Peasant He/Him Sweden bloop
Life? What's that? Can I download it?! 
Egyptians handled stone much more differently back then, we lack that skill today. THEY WERE NOT AS PRIMITIVE AS YOU THINK. The mere thought of alien intervention baffles me.

There are lots of things we don't know about and aliens may be out there. Everyone knows however, who built the pyramids.
April 10th 2013, 07:52 AM
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Kyle
Peasant He/Him Belgium
 
But I don't think their conclusion makes all that much sense.

Absolutely agree with you on that Shevek. It felt like they were jumping on the apocalypse bandwagon and the science of it didn't make any sense.

However, as for the numerology, you're looking at things from our perspective and with our tools. Building a structure in one part of the world that aligns (almost) exactly with more than 4 structures spread across the world (which they couldn't have even known about) is somewhat suspicious wouldn't you say? You can even check it out on Google Earth, the numbers pan out (except for one, the Easter Island reference, which is plain wrong). While trying to discern fact from fiction after it aired I found more and more indications that the production was a mix between some good findings that can not really be exaplined and a drive to be a commercial success, which means including conspiracy theories for the sake of it.

As for building a pyramid in the same way they did it, with their tools, it IS possible, although even modern day engineers spent a really, REALLY long time trying to figure it out. That alone, again, raises some suspicion. But the kicker is, if you watched the video, modern day engineers can NOT do it in the timeframe the egyptians did it, even if they were to utilize the same manpower.

I don't want to go as far as Skull did in trying to debunk history as made up or twisted facts, but I will say that there is a very strong drive within the scientific community to stay FAR away from things that they can not explain. The reason is not because they're not curious, but because there are soooo many precedents of scientists giving a shot at explaining things from a different corner and then being out of a job and never taken seriously again.

You might not know this, but high end science as performed by larger teams and provided a budget by wealthy companies or governments is very often driven by a need to get published and acknowledged by their peers. There is a gigantic pressure to be accepted within the community and to stand out by contributing something extra, but not necessarily new, to their field of expertise. There are plenty of examples of this in medicine, quantum physics and yes, history. Especially the field of archeology suffers from this. The leading experts think they have it all figured out and rarely even consider revising their opinions (again, because it would invalidate their previously published research).

Anyway, back on topic, I'm definitely not going to say the pyramids were built by aliens. But I do think there are some valid, unexplained phenomena that took place in that time that are in desperate need of an explanation. And just ignoring them only feeds conspiracy theories. In fact, it's hard to even call this a conspiracy theory, because there is no conspiracy. There's just people trying to find answers to unanswered questions.
April 10th 2013, 08:02 AM
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Skull
Peasant He/Him Finland bloop
A Disembodied Sod 
Anyway, back on topic, I'm definitely not going to say the pyramids were built by aliens.

Actually, I never said the Pyramids were built by aliens. I believe they were built by humans, with perhaps some help from extraterrestrials, and maybe even because of their orders. There's even Ancient Egyptian texts that clearly state the Gods (who according to them, in many sources, came from the stars), gave the Egyptians strange items and machinery, to help build the Pyramids. In some cases they say these items were for cutting the stone, in others they say they were to levitate them etc.
April 10th 2013, 04:48 PM
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However, as for the numerology, you're looking at things from our perspective and with our tools. Building a structure in one part of the world that aligns (almost) exactly with more than 4 structures spread across the world (which they couldn't have even known about) is somewhat suspicious wouldn't you say?

As far as I could see, they just arbitrarily drew a (thick) line that would encompass as many sights as possible. The town where Abraham was born? What does that have to do with anything? If all the pyramids in the world lined up or something like that, it would be a lot more uncanny.

Also, about similarities, when you find those I think it's prudent to look for differences as well. If you only focus on the similarities, it's easy to make a connection sound far more compelling than it really is. The similarity between the pictures/writing on Easter Island and Mohenjo Daro is intriguing, I'll say that, although I couldn't find any good quality pictures of the actual stuff online, so it's difficult to compare them by yourself.

As for building a pyramid in the same way they did it, with their tools, it IS possible, although even modern day engineers spent a really, REALLY long time trying to figure it out. That alone, again, raises some suspicion.

What suspicion? If the suspicion is that maybe the egyptians didn't build the pyramid of Giza in just 20 years, or that they must have used more workforce than previously thought, then that's fair enough. =)

But the kicker is, if you watched the video, modern day engineers can NOT do it in the timeframe the egyptians did it, even if they were to utilize the same manpower.

If you haven't, watch the video I posted. Modern day first-time pyramid builders don't have the experience or expertise the ancient egyptians did, of building pyramids nor of the tools used. I think they would be able to do it after building a few practise pyramids -- if not, then the idea the egyptians did it so fast is suspect. (IIRC, these details are not well-established in the first place)
April 10th 2013, 05:06 PM
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Skull
Peasant He/Him Finland bloop
A Disembodied Sod 
I'm actually tempted to now start throwing questions at Scratcher, about all the historical things that seem to have extraterrestrial connections. I'd really like to see how far he can come up with legit answers.

Or maybe even Quiztis. He's brilliant! I've never seen as good of a backup explanation as "Biatch! Your theory's wrong! Mine's right!". Dang, he's good!
April 10th 2013, 05:30 PM
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Kerrek
Peasant He/Him United States
oao 
why is this discussion happening still
April 10th 2013, 06:26 PM
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I'm actually tempted to now start throwing questions at Scratcher, about all the historical things that seem to have extraterrestrial connections. I'd really like to see how far he can come up with legit answers.

If you could defend the claim that humans couldn't build the pyramid of Giza by themselves for one second, that would be a good start.
April 10th 2013, 07:49 PM
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shevek
Ghost They/Them
 
Building a structure in one part of the world that aligns (almost) exactly with more than 4 structures spread across the world (which they couldn't have even known about) is somewhat suspicious wouldn't you say?

Not really. Do you know with how many impressive sites it doesn't line up? If you have as many structures on earth as we do, it would be very unlikely that you couldn't draw a broad line through a lot of them.

They are saying that this line is tilted 30° compared to the geographic north pole, and goes exactly through the magnetic north pole. But that's impossible: the magnetic north pole is only about 5° away from the geographic one (that used to be 20°, but nowhere near 30°: proof).

high end science ... is very often driven by a need to get published and acknowledged by their peers.

I can only speak for physics, because I'm not familiar with other fields. However, while it is true that publishing (and thus being acknowledged) is important, this doesn't usually lead to lies.

Scientists value the procedure more than anything. If the research is properly done, then no matter what the results are, they will be accepted. That's the whole point of scientific articles: presenting you research in a way which convinces to the reader that your results are correct.

I realize that physics is a great field for this, and especially the social sciences suffer from difficulty to prove anything. Also, I have heard so many stories about pharmaceutical and tobacco companies bribing researchers that I tend to believe that the problem you describe does actually occur in medical research, but I am really not sure about it; I haven't investigated it at all.

There are certainly examples in physics of people claiming things which sound like rubbish, like Einstein claiming that the stars don't move. But this was not because he didn't want to be different: it was simply because "the stars don't move" was such a well-known fact in his day, that it didn't occur to him that it might not be true.

Scientists are supposed to doubt everything, but they are not perfect.

So coming back to Skull: I think I am very open minded. If someone gives me convincing arguments for an alternative explanation, I'll happily consider it. Only giving arguments against the dominant explanation is also useful, but it only makes me think "probably the details aren't entirely right" (for example, perhaps it took them more than 20 years, or they had more people working than previously thought). "Not A, therefore B" is not valid logic in my world. Sherlock Holmes was wrong: if all likely alternatives are exhausted, the very unlikely one doesn't need to be true; it is well possible, and even probable, that you have overlooked another likely alternative.

I am not aware of the texts you are talking about, but AFAIK the texts are all pretty cryptic, so it isn't quite clear what they mean. Texts about gods written today are cryptic, even written in my own language. So I'm not surprised at all if they are hardly understandable when written in a strange language by people from a culture which isn't well understood.
April 10th 2013, 10:33 PM
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KrisKnox
Peasant He/Him United States
The site's resident Therian (Dire Wolf, Dragon) 
Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming. What do we do? We swim, swim...
April 11th 2013, 01:33 AM
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Quiztis
Peasant He/Him Sweden bloop
Life? What's that? Can I download it?! 
...Backup explanation? You need to start using common sense, Skull, this is really ridiculous. You say the egyptians couldn't have built the pyramids with their primitive tools back then and got alien help. You think that the pyramids were built using magic. It's the only thing backing you up to believe that the pyramids were giant wonders that no people of this earth ever could've built.

As we all know, egyptians used smoothed out roads to drag the stones on to the pyramid. Using rollers or cattle to help, 20-25 men could easily move a stone block of about 2 tons. They used different types of approaches on how to put blocks on top of the pyramids.
April 11th 2013, 03:50 AM
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Skull
Peasant He/Him Finland bloop
A Disembodied Sod 
As we all know, egyptians used smoothed out roads to drag the stones on to the pyramid. Using rollers or cattle to help, 20-25 men could easily move a stone block of about 2 tons. They used different types of approaches on how to put blocks on top of the pyramids.

How did you figure this out? By the fake carvings and paintings? Maybe it's you who should be using common sense, and do some research. I'm astonished that people to this day actually believe the mumbo jumbo, that says 20-25 men could've pulled the megaliths, by using rollers. That's perhaps the stupidest, most impossible crap to ever come out of a human mouth. A thousand men couldn't have pulled it! As I said, those few times that they've actually tried to build a pyramid (not in those fake, biased documents, which are full of crap, and only give the answers they are set to from the beginning), they failed. Why? Because 20+ modern day cranes, couldn't lift a single one of them. And it is said they would need a LOT more. Also, you leave out the explanation of how they transferred the megaliths over water, with their tiny boats, how they lifted them up to the very top of the pyramids, AND how they did it all so well, that the pyramids still stand today, after much "abuse". People here seem to like reminding that "The Ancient Egyptians weren't as primitive as people think". I never thought they were primitive. In fact, I always thought they were rather advanced people in their time. But to support your claims, they would've have to been less primitive, than people today.

Quiztis, still you have not given me a single back up explanation, and I gave you lots. I don't know what's rubbing you the wrong way, but I'm kinda tired of the very personal and aggressive style of your posts in this thread.
April 11th 2013, 04:35 AM
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Followed this with great interest so far, with nothing to add myself however

But there seems to be a lot wrong with your last post Skull

"A thousand men couldn't have pulled it!"
A block of 2 tons? Really?

"Because 20+ modern day cranes, couldn't lift a single one of them"
I haven't seen this, but I find it a little hard to believe.
See this article. Ok, what it says about how the Egyptians built the pyramids isn't adding anything new, but 20+ cranes couldn't lift a single stone? Maybe they were using the wrong cranes. The most powerful crane in the world can lift around 20,000 tons, though granted that particular crane wouldn't be much use for a pyramid
Hey look, a helicopter that can lift 20 tons!

And as for the pyramids still standing today, it's a 6 million ton pile of rock for goodness sake. The only way it would not be standing today is if someone had let off a nuclear bomb inside it.

My point is not to just start attacking you Skull, but don't start accusing people of not researching and then make up facts yourself...

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Camp 1: We don't know how the pyramids were built (or Stonehenge etc etc), we guess it was done like this, we would do it like this.

Camp 2: We don't know how the pyramids were built (or Stonehenge etc etc), it must be aliens! There's no way we could move a 50 ton rock even nowadays!

Personally I'm inclined towards camp 1. I have no idea how they managed to move these stones over water etc, but I'm not going to jump at aliens or something similar when there is zero evidence of this.
April 11th 2013, 04:59 AM
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Quizghost
Ghost They/Them
 
^ that. Some dudes actually built a small pyramid with stones of the same size using the tools of the Egyptians for a Discovery show, it's not fake.

I'm not a scientist on Egypt, but nothing they've done was impossible for the time being, it is as simple as that. If you think our history and its documents is mumbo jumbo and dragging rocks is impossible, fine.
April 11th 2013, 06:11 AM
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metatarasal
Bard He/Him Netherlands
I object 
Just a couple of comments to the things people have been saying:

Because 20+ modern day cranes, couldn't lift a single one of them. And it is said they would need a LOT more.

The problem is what is a modern day crane? The Dutch company Mammoet (who specialize in heavy lifting) state on their website that they have cranes up to 4400 tons capacity. Now the heaviest stones in the great pyramids are made from granite which has a density of about 2691 kg per cubic metre, so the maximum volume of solid granite such a crane could lift would be 4400/2.691 = 1635 cubic metre. For comparison: An olympic size swimming pool is about 2500 cubic metre. So this would imply that 20 of these cranes could lift a block of granite the size of 13 olympic size swimming pools.
While the blocks of granite in Egyptian pyramids are very impressive (up to about 80 tonnes) this is something that many mobile cranes today could lift. (For example, check out the maximul load capacities from this manufacturer.)

Clearly the argument that modern day cranes couldn't lift the heaviest of stones used in the pyramids is nonsense.

You might not know this, but high end science as performed by larger teams and provided a budget by wealthy companies or governments is very often driven by a need to get published and acknowledged by their peers. There is a gigantic pressure to be accepted within the community and to stand out by contributing something extra, but not necessarily new, to their field of expertise. There are plenty of examples of this in medicine, quantum physics and yes, history.

The saying within sience is 'publish or perish'. Getting published, and in particular getting published and cited by others is incredibly important within science. But to get attention and get published in prestigious scientific journals you need to find something new. Just publishing something that hardly raises any eyebrows in some obscure journal won't get you much recognition. Creating something extra that isn't new isn't going to get your name out there.

I can only speak for physics, because I'm not familiar with other fields. However, while it is true that publishing (and thus being acknowledged) is important, this doesn't usually lead to lies.

Scientists value the procedure more than anything. If the research is properly done, then no matter what the results are, they will be accepted. That's the whole point of scientific articles: presenting you research in a way which convinces to the reader that your results are correct.


Just having done your research done properly is by no means the sole reason for getting published. If the results are just plain uninteresting and already well established by other studies you'll have a hard time publishing your results anywhere. The real reason that lies are discouraged is that you'll usually lie to make results prettier than they are so you get appreciation. But if you find really interesting results people will want to find the same things and try to repeat your experiments. When they fail you'll get debunked.

I don't want to go as far as Skull did in trying to debunk history as made up or twisted facts, but I will say that there is a very strong drive within the scientific community to stay FAR away from things that they can not explain. The reason is not because they're not curious, but because there are soooo many precedents of scientists giving a shot at explaining things from a different corner and then being out of a job and never taken seriously again.

This isn't really true. Very often the work of the people 'giving a shot at explaining things from a different corner' is just not of very high quality. When they subsequently get ignored they start complaining that the reason they get ignored is some sort of evil conspiracy.

In reality scientists really want to explain the unexplained, and working in fields were a lot is still unknown is really popular as you can get results that are new and interesting (thus gaining the respect from your peers). Working in a well established field is much less interesting for this very same reason.

The problem is that so many people (I won't even call them scientists) want to explain unknown phenomena with some explaination that lacks substantial proof and still be appreciated as if they had actually proven something new.

In practice big changes in established theories need big proof. This is consistent with Bayesian probability theory. (Wikipedia has a lot on this if you're interested.)
April 11th 2013, 06:26 AM
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Skull
Peasant He/Him Finland bloop
A Disembodied Sod 
A block of 2 tons? Really?

Those are the SMALLEST of the stones. The heaviest stones are up to +50 tons (and way over). Of course, I could direct this conversation at other Ancient structures which use megaliths that weigh hundreds of tons. But that has nothing to do with the Pyramids, so I'm not going to.

I haven't seen this, but I find it a little hard to believe.
See this article. Ok, what it says about how the Egyptians built the pyramids isn't adding anything new, but 20+ cranes couldn't lift a single stone? Maybe they were using the wrong cranes. The most powerful crane in the world can lift around 20,000 tons, though granted that particular crane wouldn't be much use for a pyramid
Hey look, a helicopter that can lift 20 tons!


Actually, we run into a problem here. They can't lift enough. This indicates that the Ancient Egyptians either had better machinery/technology in their hands, than a modern day crane, or dang, they sure went to the gym a lot to lift those stones. The later one seems to be the more common thought, but I just find it plain humorous.

And as for the pyramids still standing today, it's a 6 million ton pile of rock for goodness sake. The only way it would not be standing today is if someone had let off a nuclear bomb inside it.

Exactly my point. Modern day buildings and structures fall by themselves in a hundred years. The Pyramids wouldn't fall down even if you tried to knock them down with everything. Personally, I think it's a bit fishy that people could go from living in caves to building everlasting structures, virtually overnight, all by themselves.

My point is not to just start attacking you Skull, but don't start accusing people of not researching and then make up facts yourself...

I didn't say you were attacking me. Quiztis seems a bit aggressive though. To me, it does seem people haven't researched our history one bit, but just bust in, stating their opinions as facts. I assure you, I haven't made any facts up by myself. I also don't believe in every possible conspiracy theory you throw at me. If somebody told me the Pyramids were used as a energy source to power up alien spacecrafts (trust me, this claim has been made), I'd think it's just as ridiculous of a claim as saying the Egyptians built the Pyramids by themselves. Also, no matter how it seems, I'm not actually claiming it as a fact that it was aliens who helped the Egyptians. It could have been anything else. But if you do a few years of research into it (more than just biased tv documentary crap), you'll notice there was something weird going on with the Pyramid building, and realize saying the people built it by themselves, is just as "absurd" of a thought as saying that they didn't. Even moreso, in my personal opinion.

Also, as an added bonus, I feel like saying that you do know that the stones used to be beautifully shiny and slippery when they first built the Pyramids, right? This means they would either had to have brought the stones from far, FAR away, over water and everything, or that they would have had to known some kind of a way to make the stones like that. Not to mention, the fact that they were slippery would have made the building ten times harder.
April 11th 2013, 08:13 AM
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Quiztis
Peasant He/Him Sweden bloop
Life? What's that? Can I download it?! 
Aw man, sorry for being a douche, threads like these brush me up and I don't wanna argue anymore.

+1 internet for you, gz.