Reply to Re: The Alienic connection
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April 9th 2013, 01:29 PM
shevek
Ok, be prepared for a looong answer.
Likewise.
It's true that most of our historical "facts" are just a bunch of lies.
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. (Napoleon Bonaparte)
Schools are a good example.
The example you give shows that schools are not very effective at teaching, not that any malice is involved (it can be, but you didn't prove it).
Egyptian pyramid construction techniques
I do not know much about this. It is obvious that building a Pyramid is a huge undertaking. It doesn't seem impossible to me, that a highly hierarchical society with a lunatic at the top is capable of "wasting" so much energy in a project and accomplish it. I agree that, for financial and logistical reasons, this would be very hard, if at all possible, with today's society. Unless, indeed, the building is used to make money.
I'm just pointing out that the "historical fact", that people back then had no connection over continents, is plain absurd when you look at all the facts.
Not at all. A pyramid is the most logical structure if you want flat walls which are not vertical (which is a good thing for such large structures; vertical walls fall over too easily). It's very symmetrical, which is pleasing to humans.
Yes, pyramids could be built with aliens. But they could as well have been built without them. If all else is equal, I prefer simpler explanations over more complex ones.
Houses are built in different ways, but that doesn't take away from their basic idea.
Ehm, wait. Are you saying that if two people both think that building a house is a good idea, they must have had contact? I would think that the need for a house is something that people can come up with by themselves. All houses have in common that they are attempts to make a safe place to stay in, without being "attacked" by nature (animals or weather). Houses look very different in different places (as do pyramids). Wanting one is not something that requires a genius (or an alien).
Such as being built in the shape of Orion's Belt.
This is actually a pretty strong argument against them being built by aliens, if anything.
First of all, Orion's belt consists of three stars which are approximately on a line with equal distances. So the first question is: how exact is their positioning "like Orion's belt"? Are the pyramids just approximately on a line with equal distances? I sure hope you agree that that isn't enough to consider a connection with Orion's belt. But what if they are very exactly lined out in the same way?
On first thought, that would suggest that "people" from those stars came here and built a model of their home world.
But on second thought, that is nonsense. The stars that make up Orion's belt only look close together from where we are; they are really very far apart. (Actually, for astronomical measures, they are pretty close, but pretty close means there's more than 600 light years between them, while the closest is only 700 light years from us: we're "pretty close" to them as well)
And what's more, their respective position is only the way we see it from where we are. Them building structures here to resemble the belt, is like someone from Stockholm traveling to London, and then making a drawing of his home: the group of cities Kopenhagen, Amsterdam, Berlin, and Stockholm (which are all sort of in the same direction from London). If those cities would be visible in the sky from London, people living there might well say they are related. But people from those cities would disagree.
For that reason, if aliens would build stuff here in the shape of their home, it would certainly not be in the shape that Orion's belt happens to have in our sky. Because that is not a shape they associate with their home.
If human astronomers were involved in the placement, however, then the belt could be a source of inspiration. Hence, as I wrote, this argument is stronger against aliens than in favor of them.
All I'm saying is, maybe try to keep an open mind about things, and not always swallow everything we're told to.
That is certainly a good idea. Still, you will usually believe something, even if only until you have a better explanation. Not believing anything "they" tell you isn't a very usable strategy. Most people are well-meaning, and when they tell you something, that is because they believe it to be true. You shouldn't blindly believe them, indeed. But others believing in something is a good indication that it may contain some truth.
Thinking for yourself is a good idea, but you can't think about everything. If you want to spend your brainpower effectively, you can think mostly about things which many people disagree about. Which leads you to religion and politics.
Or you can think about things which are not disputed, but simply unknown. That leads you to being a scientist, which is a lot more fun than telling people why their religion is wrong.
Likewise.
It's true that most of our historical "facts" are just a bunch of lies.
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. (Napoleon Bonaparte)
Schools are a good example.
The example you give shows that schools are not very effective at teaching, not that any malice is involved (it can be, but you didn't prove it).
Egyptian pyramid construction techniques
I do not know much about this. It is obvious that building a Pyramid is a huge undertaking. It doesn't seem impossible to me, that a highly hierarchical society with a lunatic at the top is capable of "wasting" so much energy in a project and accomplish it. I agree that, for financial and logistical reasons, this would be very hard, if at all possible, with today's society. Unless, indeed, the building is used to make money.
I'm just pointing out that the "historical fact", that people back then had no connection over continents, is plain absurd when you look at all the facts.
Not at all. A pyramid is the most logical structure if you want flat walls which are not vertical (which is a good thing for such large structures; vertical walls fall over too easily). It's very symmetrical, which is pleasing to humans.
Yes, pyramids could be built with aliens. But they could as well have been built without them. If all else is equal, I prefer simpler explanations over more complex ones.
Houses are built in different ways, but that doesn't take away from their basic idea.
Ehm, wait. Are you saying that if two people both think that building a house is a good idea, they must have had contact? I would think that the need for a house is something that people can come up with by themselves. All houses have in common that they are attempts to make a safe place to stay in, without being "attacked" by nature (animals or weather). Houses look very different in different places (as do pyramids). Wanting one is not something that requires a genius (or an alien).
Such as being built in the shape of Orion's Belt.
This is actually a pretty strong argument against them being built by aliens, if anything.
First of all, Orion's belt consists of three stars which are approximately on a line with equal distances. So the first question is: how exact is their positioning "like Orion's belt"? Are the pyramids just approximately on a line with equal distances? I sure hope you agree that that isn't enough to consider a connection with Orion's belt. But what if they are very exactly lined out in the same way?
On first thought, that would suggest that "people" from those stars came here and built a model of their home world.
But on second thought, that is nonsense. The stars that make up Orion's belt only look close together from where we are; they are really very far apart. (Actually, for astronomical measures, they are pretty close, but pretty close means there's more than 600 light years between them, while the closest is only 700 light years from us: we're "pretty close" to them as well)
And what's more, their respective position is only the way we see it from where we are. Them building structures here to resemble the belt, is like someone from Stockholm traveling to London, and then making a drawing of his home: the group of cities Kopenhagen, Amsterdam, Berlin, and Stockholm (which are all sort of in the same direction from London). If those cities would be visible in the sky from London, people living there might well say they are related. But people from those cities would disagree.
For that reason, if aliens would build stuff here in the shape of their home, it would certainly not be in the shape that Orion's belt happens to have in our sky. Because that is not a shape they associate with their home.
If human astronomers were involved in the placement, however, then the belt could be a source of inspiration. Hence, as I wrote, this argument is stronger against aliens than in favor of them.
All I'm saying is, maybe try to keep an open mind about things, and not always swallow everything we're told to.
That is certainly a good idea. Still, you will usually believe something, even if only until you have a better explanation. Not believing anything "they" tell you isn't a very usable strategy. Most people are well-meaning, and when they tell you something, that is because they believe it to be true. You shouldn't blindly believe them, indeed. But others believing in something is a good indication that it may contain some truth.
Thinking for yourself is a good idea, but you can't think about everything. If you want to spend your brainpower effectively, you can think mostly about things which many people disagree about. Which leads you to religion and politics.
Or you can think about things which are not disputed, but simply unknown. That leads you to being a scientist, which is a lot more fun than telling people why their religion is wrong.
