The Dink Network

Alright, so I've had a LOT of time lately to work on Fate of Destiny, and I've done just that regardless of the Earthquake. Garden City turned City that rocks or no, I'll still be planning to work on it. SO I thought I'd take a moment to talk over a few of the things I've changed in the storyline before I go on.

First of all (Sabretrout forgive me) I've brought back Jack & Jill from CC2. So far they've made only a simple cinematic appearance, and for the moment thats all I've planned for them, but I want to bring back some of the significant but not centred-on and important bosses from other various D-mods. I played through SoB and PQ and decided against picking out villains from there for the moment, but plan on taking a look at the D-mods I've found on my finally repaired laptop (Took 2 years to fix the dang thing and I did it on my OWN).

Anyway! Ive finally begun to work on the second Map file, and I want a few more ideas for what else anyone wants me to bring into the game. I've played through FB3 looking for info on Tenjin (still haven't beaten it, am a bit stuck but I'll get through) since she's mentioned in a book or two in the story. I doubt I'll give her an appearance as well though.

Back on track though; Who do YOU want to see rise back from the grave to wreak havok in Fate of Destiny? ANd is there anything else you want to see come back, some old allies perhaps? ALL WILL BE CONSIDERED SERIOUSLY.

(OFF TOPIC PS, INCLUDES A LITTLE INFO SINCE MY POST-QUAKE POST)
Expect a HEAVY demo update, although everything I've tried to do so far has failed to fix the Slime Boss for now. Just expect it to take a while; I'm kinda limited to short periods with large distances of internet access right now. Borrowing the net for a few minutes at my current temporary residence. In no way do I intend to live in my old house, it's practically red-stickered (No access sticker, likely to be demolished) but is unofficially yellow so we can get stuff out of there.
I'll probably be moving into a house owned by my aunt that she rents out. The residents there left after the quake for the north island, the cowards. Until then the town centre is still limited in where you can go and I have no idea where I can get proper internet access around here for a decent time.

Oh, and I'll be disappearing for 6 weeks on the 4th of April. Off to the Military then, so get your requests in quick. I'll make sure to check back before then

~Ex-DeathEVn

You really shouldn't take other peoples' characters without their permission. Taking Dinkers is fine, and taking characters from other D-Mods is fine too, if they appear as Easter Eggs or just simply as a piece of dialogue, but making them bosses without the authors' permissions... ouch!

Oh, look! Skull is criticizing ExDeath again! Who would have guessed?

Hmmm, I wouldn't personally mind if people used my characters and gave me credit for it. As long as those characters aren't progressing within the world of someone else's d-mod. I guess what I'm trying to say is, non main story connection camios are cool and fine in my eyes But as with EVERYTHING, asking permission first is always the nice thing to do^^

Yeoldetoast aka ghost, I'm not criticizing. I'm saying that taking other peoples' characters without their permission ain't quite the right thing to do. Just like Kyle said, in simply different words.

And so what if I criticize ExD a lot? That just means there's a lot to criticize about.

Nah... You haven't been critical enough about me for that to be true.

There's nothing to criticize you about. Except maybe that you pretend to be a male.

I wouldn't mind at all, unless they were using the character in some kind of a spiteful manner towards me or something. Why would I? I think it would be rather an honour that they wanted to use a character made up by me.

Also, MrObvious != Yeoldetoast.

I'm sure you'd still like for them to ask your permission. And don't say you wouldn't, cause I know you would.

Sure, it's polite. But I don't see the big problem with not asking permission. In the context of this thread, were I in ExDeath's shoes, I probably wouldn't ask for permission.

I disagree scratcher, (surprise surprise lol) for me that would be like reading a book and liking the characters and then writing a new book using them and taking them off on a tangent to where the original author had no intention of placing them. Those characters belong to the original author and I personally don't think anyone else has the right to use them unless, like Dink - its stated as a free for all. Personally I don't think its ethical or even nice.

Is it so hard to think up new characters? If you can create a dmod surely you can introduce new characters specific to that mod, is that not part of the challenge in making these new adventures - using your imagination? And who knows, they could be way better than the ones others have created... worth a try I recon.

Also, I am a tad confused at the double standards here, because for me, using others characters without permission, is the same as doing recorded LP's of other peoples dmods, without first asking if the author minds how its done. This is because whoever is doing it - puts their spin on that mod as they play through - which may not be the authors intention for that game. Yes lots of people do these, but again, just because others do it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do...

So for me personally, if someone wants to use my intellectual property (oh do I get points for the big word?) I would like to be asked if either my characters were used, or if my dmods were ever in a lets play (not that I have anything out there worth that, but, IF I did... *coff*) I think its just polite to ask, especially if the author is still active.

So to answer your question ExD, I prefer to see YOUR new characters and what they will be, rather than a resurrected one from another persons Dmod - I wanna see what you can do, not a rehash of anothers thoughts

...blah blah blah my two cents wor...- nah - $5 worth, dropped in the jar! Upped the "donation" cause NZ money isn't worth the paper its written on after that quake

I whole-heartedly agree that characters belong to the original author, which is why I don't see a problem with someone else using them. You can't just steal someone's character by including it in your own work, it's still the original author's character and what you're doing is fan fiction. The OA decides what's canon... Like if Seth created Dink 2, he wouldn't need to take into account everything that happens in every dmod out there. He could just set it off right after Mystery Island, and there would be no problem.

Is it so hard to think up new characters? If you can create a dmod surely you can introduce new characters specific to that mod, is that not part of the challenge in making these new adventures - using your imagination? And who knows, they could be way better than the ones others have created... worth a try I recon.

This is pretty much why I view somene using my characters as a positive thing rather than negative. It's a compliment, they actually liked my character so much they want to include it in their own stuff?

Not saying it's completely black and white (there are times I might mind someone using my characters. I think. Right now I'm just tired), and as has been echoed a few times by now, asking is polite.

So for me personally, if someone wants to use my intellectual property (oh do I get points for the big word?) I would like to be asked if either my characters were used, or if my dmods were ever in a lets play (not that I have anything out there worth that, but, IF I did... *coff*) I think its just polite to ask, especially if the author is still active.

This is very, very polite... I am not nearly this polite. I make an LP and someone starts complaining that I did it without permission? Go jump in the dang bog.

*Pats* scratcher on the head - there there, deep breaths, you are gunna make it just fine

I'm sorry but in my opinion nobody really needs to ask for permission to do an LP no matter how you look at it. You're playing a game and recording it, nobody is forced to watch it. You're not taking, changing or messing with the intellectual property of the author in any way. If anything, this will GREATLY increase the fanbase for the game, in no case have I ever heard of it having negative effects and I watch dozens of LPs.

It's as Scratcher said, Seth doesn't have to take into account all the d-mods, because ALL of the d-mods are unofficial. They are fanwork. If you go to fanfiction.net there are thousands of fanfics written about games, movies, books, everything you can think of. Do you know what would happen if they asked for permission? They'd be shut down. I was DUMB DUMB DUMB when I asked Squaresoft if I could make a d-mod of Final Fantasy VII back when I was in my early teens. I got a letter back threatening legal actions -_-

There are so many references to pop material in a lot of books, TV shows, movies and games. They don't first ask for permission, because it's within the bounds of flattery. Now, putting your own spin on a character from someone else's original work is of questionable attitude... I wouldn't do it, I would keep it faithful to the original material and I would not further the character's personal story or anything. Stick to the base character and material and it should be fine

Nobody should use other peoples' work and take it to a certain direction without asking the author's permission first. It's just not right. And if anything, it will only ruin the character and people will never be able to see it as the character like the original author intended it to be seen as. So ask for a permission, ExD.

So did you ask Media Vision about using the Wild Arms characters in your novels? I doubt it, because they would have said you'll be sued if you use them

It's tolerated because in 99.9% of the cases it's meant as a tribute and not as stealing.

That's a complete different thing. I used their characters to tell exactly the same story as they did in the game. I just changed it into the form of a book. What ExD is doing, is creating additional content for other peoples' characters.

Cameo appearances are not additional content. They're just that. Take a look at Super Robot Wars or Cross Edge. They use the characters from other games but don't take them seriously in the context of their respective stories. That's because they're there to please a fanbase, not to change their stories or even imply that the game worlds are the same.

Yes, but judging by ExD's words, he's not going to just make cameo appearances. He's going to use them as the villains of his D-Mod. And I'm sure that the Super Robot Wars and Cross Edge developers have asked the characters' authors' permission before adding them in their game.

Intellectual property? Skull, how does using somebody else's character (Jack and Jill in our example) "ruin" it? As far as I can see CC2 is still there and intact. If you wish to see those characters as Sabretrout envisioned them go play that game instead. I don't see any harm in what Ex wishes to do.

Making them bosses is still just a platonic cameo

Intellectual property? Skull, how does using somebody else's character (Jack and Jill in our example) "ruin" it? As far as I can see CC2 is still there and intact. If you wish to see those characters as Sabretrout envisioned them go play that game instead. I don't see any harm in what Ex wishes to do.

That's for SabreTrout to decide. And that's why ExD needs a permission.

I'm sorry but in my opinion nobody really needs to ask for permission to do an LP no matter how you look at it.

I actually totally agree Kyle, I was playing the devils advocate. Just seems two faced to whine about someones choices when you arent being as straight up as you proport. It seems odd to whine about others when you are doing it - just in a different way. Say as an example - For me there are no degrees of lies (as in aww it was just a 'little white lie") its either truth or its not - so when whining about others you really should be spot free first.

I would still not like others using my characters tho

*sigh* Somehow I should have forseen this thread would be derailed onto this sort of discussion.

For the record: I added Jack and Jill simply as a cinematic at this time and NOTHING more then that, and they barely do anything save for spouting their hate for Dink's actions in CC2 (along the "good" ending lines) and mentioning a new Scarab Club. Even if I leave it at that and they make no more appearances in the D-mod, its a direct continuation of the two characters.
I also added them AFTER THE EARTHQUAKE! Thus I had no way to PM Sabretrout with no internet access to actually ask if it was okay to bring them into FoD. I have NOT added any other modder's characters since those two while I wait for him to see that I have in fact used them.

My asking everyone here if they wanted any characters to make an appearance INCLUDES any specific requests for what they want the character to do and how they want the character to do it. The cinematic of Jack & Jill will be included in the demo update and if Sabre doesn't like the cinematic then he can complain whenever he wants and I'll change or remove it according to his specifications.
The same goes for anything anyone asks of me regarding external (not self-created) content in FoD.

There's been several attempts of people trying to make a collaboration D-mod. So far FoD has had work done on it by other people and though this is't quite a collaboration in the sense of a whole team of developers working on singular sections of a mod, its a start towards collaboration that so far I'm happy with.

Now that I've had my say (with another aftershock while typing this) can we just get this back on track? Anyone is welcome to have their say and if you want you can consider it your own advertisement for your own D-mod(s). And if you want to try and argue with me further you'll have to wait until I'm granted access to the internet again.

No arguments, I'd just like to see you make your own characters Exd. Use your imagination and create something specific to FOD My 3c worth.

I'm doing that, in fact I've been backtracking too much and changing or adding to early parts of the dmod.
I'm just trying to give people the chance to have their say and any input.

If a whole collaboration project were to actually happen it would certainly dwarf my attempts at collaborative assistance leading towards Fod's final creation.

This is a close community. It shouldn't be too much to ask the authors' permissions, even with earthquakes.

I fully support this idea.

I'm ok with this.

It won't be canon, but if even one person gets a kick out of their inclusion, great! I share MsDink's reservations/concerns about not coming up with your own characters, but you're more than welcome to have Jack and Jill in your module. All I ask is a mention in the credits.

Thanks.

Why the hell won't you just create your own characters for your own D-Mods. You just take everything from others. You make others basically do the whole D-Mod and then take their characters without their permissions. Yes, I know SabreTrout just gave you one, but you had already placed them in your D-Mod, without the thought that he might say no. And you would have basically committed a crime, cause SabreTrout has the copyrights to his characters. Never, ever include my characters in your D-Mod, because I don't consider that an honour. I consider that stealing.

ExD is trying to be nice here, not stealing >_>

If I made a d-mod with every d-mod's characters in there as a tribute d-mod and I skipped yours Skull you'd be saying: "Why the hell did you not include my awesome characters???"

Anyway, back on track now, Sabre gave permission, let's talk about the actual d-mod from now on

Whatever, I'll laugh when I see you complain how ExD ruined the characters. That is, if this D-Mod will even be finished with his selfish and lazy attitude. Oh wait, I forgot, he'll probably get some more slaves to do his work for him.

I also want money.

Sorry, my bad. I realized I was a little (well, not so little) too harsh on you, ExD. I fully support this D-Mod. Just give the authors of the characters big, BIG credits. And you can feel free to use my characters too if you want.

I fully support this D-Mod. Just give the authors of the characters big, BIG credits

Yeah, about that... I looked into some of your D-Mods and noticed that you had in all the cases I saw "borrowed" graphics from different authors... Your credits:

HH: New graphics? : Copied some graphics from other Dink addons

Day after Middle Night: New graphics? : From various sources
Ingame credits: Graphics - RTSoft and Dinkers

Don't you think graphics creators should be credited aswell? It's easy judging others.

Don't rekindle this

I say imagine if I was to use....jack I think it was from historical hero and make him the hero then take rand from TLOTD and make him a scholar that would be bad. I guess if you used them the way the developer intended that would be okay I guess the only way I would use it is as ohh dink used fireball on a tree and a stairway is there then when inside you see rand still looking for his axe. So personly I would only use them as secret bosses and Easter eggs. Though I do sometime think of continuing characters story's in d-mods but for my personal play ONLY. Just an opinion I posted then saw that kyle wrote don't rekindle this so please don't sorry man. Skull I don't know exd but that was kinda mean (not the math mean if I misspelled). I look forward to the d-mod whatever the heck you do with it dosnt matter to me havnt played many d-mods so I won't notice it . Graphics are more of a general thing to me if I ever created somthin new and every one was like aww man that's the coolest thing I have ever seen can I use it sure I mean I all d-mods copy rtsofts graphics and Seth don't care I know the game was made for d-mods but why can't you do that with all Dink smallwood related things gives new developers a heads up and trust me the hardest thing about story lines is the character and there names so give EXD a little brake please we all have stolen things wether they were ideas or food stamps.

Graphics are more of a general thing to me if I ever created somthin new and every one was like aww man that's the coolest thing

Apparently, you don't have an idea how much work there's behind new graphics and developing time. W/e, my point is, don't judge others when you're doing the exact same thing.

I dont really have any characters established yet, unless you count TGKA, my first dmod/demo/test thingy. If you want to use any characters out of that go ahead, not that there are any interesting ones there hehe.

Marpro, just make up your mind already. If you don't have anything better to do, than nag about everything, then just shut up. I did indeed use graphics created by other people (I was afraid to give credit to a single person, because I didn't exactly know who first had created those graphics). And at least I had a permission, which I'm afraid ExD will have trouble getting from some of the old Dinkers.

But I apologized, so leave this be and be well, or do not and go to hell.

Ok I think this is just about over.
^ ^
----

^ I agree. And since no-one has posted here with anything they'd like to see in FoD as an advertised sort of character or anything I guess this thread is done.

Sabretrout: Thanks for the permission and appologies for not being able to message you about it before the quake. Things are still a bit hectic here.

Skull: I do create my own characters thankyou. Although there is one character named after a particular Dinker here as well (a Mister Ipulayed ) everyone else besides Dink I have created myself. I'm grateful that the argument ended though.

I think nobody will mind if you create a new thread as your development thread, since this one was tainted with off-topicness real bad Not right now of course, when the time comes and you have news to share