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March 29th 2016, 12:04 AM
peasantm.gif
shevek
Peasant They/Them Netherlands
Never be afraid to ask, but don't demand an answer 
Of course I'm not saying that ALL refugees are terrorists. I was talking about the terrorists who disguised themselves as simple refugees.

While that is not impossible, it is more likely that they will come in as normal travelers. Refugees don't have much money, but terrorists do; they don't need to send their people on a life-threatening journey hoping to get into a country. They can just pay their way in.

What's even more likely is that they recruit someone who was already in the country. That's why the terrorist attacks in Paris were done by EU citizens, for example. I'm sure it is the same for most others. In fact, I have not heard of a single attack by refugees. I may have missed one, but it certainly isn't their main method of getting people into countries.

But more importantly: you are more likely to die in a car crash, or from a heart attack, or in a fight with someone you know, or many other things, than you are to die in a terrorist attack. Terrorism gets a lot of media attention, but objectively speaking it's nothing to worry about. Of course law enforcement should go after them, and they do. But it's not something to worry about. When people use it as an excuse for not helping the powerless, they are either misled (which I assume is the case for you) or they are trying to mislead others; they just don't want to help the needy, and that is a horrible attitude.

BUT There is something sneaky about the Syrians. As you know, I am from Romania, and when this whole refugee thing appeared, many of them avoided Romania and any other small countries. Like literally, they walked outside Romania to get to Hungary.
Why?


Fleeing your home is not something that you do lightly. You leave behind everything you have, and everyone you know. However, once you have done that, it is not hard to keep moving. They want to find the best place, where they are most likely to be happy. Romania is a very poor country compared to the rest of Europe; they don't expect to get much help there, so they are less likely to build a good life for themselves.

They're certainly not avoiding small countries. Lebanon has 5.8 million citizens, and they accepted more than 1.2 million refugees from Syria.

It was found that 83% of Iraqi and Afghan refugees who came here during the wars have ended up living on welfare payments

That is a horribly misleading article. Given the style of writing, I do not trust it. And even what it does say is not what it seems to say: 69% are "not employed"; of those, 83% have some form of welfare. That's 57% of the entire group. And "not employed", can mean:

unemployed, retired, studying full time, engaged in caring duties, doing voluntary work or trying to start a business from which they had yet to receive income.

All except the first of those are not problematic. I have no idea if the numbers are good or bad, but this article certainly tries to make it sound as bad as it can, and it bends the facts to do that.

Anyway, I'm not saying countries should take in refugees to stimulate their economy. It may have that effect, but I'm not at all sure about that. You take in refugees because they need help. That is a burden, and as a country you should accept a limited amount of it because it's the right thing to do.

Yes, that takes effort, and possibly money. Rich countries (like mine, the Netherlands) have a responsibility to help. Especially the ones who have caused a large part of the problem, such as the US and the UK.

My point is not that it is not a burden. My point is that it is more than that; many refugees do contribute to society. It may or may not cancel out the entire burden, but it certainly cancels out some of it.

They may not be cavemen, but most of them(not all) sure as hell aren't going to contribute to anything in the countries they went to.
[Story about how Saudi Arabia is a horrible place]

You mention a few things here. None of them seem to be related to refugees. Do you mean that you don't want Arabs in your country? On the one hand, I think this is a valid point: a country shouldn't be required to take in so many refugees that its own culture changes significantly. They shouldn't "take over". But that doesn't mean you can't help them at all; it just means you should have reasonable limits on how many you accept. This is why there are international agreements about who is accepting how many of them.

I guess they aren't really used to how things work in Europe, but they don't really seem to care either

Every person is different, of course. And I don't know any recent refugees personally, so I just have to guess based on stories from refugees who have lived in the Netherlands for some time.

When they just arrive, they are not always treated nicely. They also have just had a long journey with a lot of fear; they don't suddenly trust people after that. Their first care is their safety, and I don't blame them. Also, at first they usually hope to go back home relatively soon. So then they don't try to fit in. But after some time, they realize they're not going back any time soon (or at all), and want to join the society they have entered.