I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by mimifish on 07/02/02 - 10:48:58

Yeah yeah yeah, I know that redink1 said that no more Skeleton B clone will be accepted. But this is different, and I believe DN would most likely accept this file. :p (But everyone would claim his/her Skeleton is different. ;))

Let me say it more detailed. And if anyone who likes to do the same thing, I would be happy to pass this project to him/her.

If you have read my Tile Hardness Tutorial, you would know that why I think it is necessary to have a new Skeleton.

In principle it will look like Skeleton B, but I will do a lot work to fix some bugs/errors. The following are my plan:

Reassign and redraw ALL 799 tile hardness:

Either the original Dink or the Skeleton wastes a lot of hardness indexes on tile squares that do not need any hardness at all. Since you cannot reassign any assigned tile index, you are forced to have less tile hardness indexes available to play with. Also some of the hardness in current Dink has some small gltiches.

Clean up Dink.ini files and fix some hardbox errors:

There still are quite a few unnecessary lines or undefine frames in Dink.ini. Also some of the hardboxes in the original Dink settings are not quite correct. For example, pillbugs. The setup of the hardbox of pillbugs would NOT let pillbugs touch Dink if Dink is right on the edge of a screen. So Dink can basically kill a lot of pillbugs without being touched by standing on the very edge of a screen...

Rearrange the TS??.bmp files:

Currently, many of the tile screen files do not use all 600 x 400. I am thinking of relocating some of them, and then adding some excellent existing tile maps that were created by some of the fellow Dinkers. (Of course, I will get the author's permission first.)

Some or many of you might think this is a bad idea. So please give me your opinion about this one. One of the obvious disadventages of doing this is that people cannot use my new hard.dat file to replace their ongoing dmod if they are using current TS files or slightly modified ones.

I can do another hard.dat specifically for the original Dink TS setup, but that's another huge and boring work...

I may add a few new graphics as well (like Skeleton B's new buttoms), but what kind of new graphics mostly likely would be used by most of Skeleton users?

Give me yor thoughts. Thanks.

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by redink1 on 07/02/02 - 15:10:37

: Yeah yeah yeah, I know that redink1 said that no more Skeleton B clone will be accepted. But this is different, and I believe DN would most likely accept this file. :p (But everyone would claim his/her Skeleton is different. ;))

: Let me say it more detailed. And if anyone who likes to do the same thing, I would be happy to pass this project to him/her.

: If you have read my Tile Hardness Tutorial, you would know that why I think it is necessary to have a new Skeleton.

: In principle it will look like Skeleton B, but I will do a lot work to fix some bugs/errors. The following are my plan:

:

Reassign and redraw ALL 799 tile hardness:

: Either the original Dink or the Skeleton wastes a lot of hardness indexes on tile squares that do not need any hardness at all. Since you cannot reassign any assigned tile index, you are forced to have less tile hardness indexes available to play with. Also some of the hardness in current Dink has some small gltiches.

Clean up Dink.ini files and fix some hardbox errors:

: There still are quite a few unnecessary lines or undefine frames in Dink.ini. Also some of the hardboxes in the original Dink settings are not quite correct. For example, pillbugs. The setup of the hardbox of pillbugs would NOT let pillbugs touch Dink if Dink is right on the edge of a screen. So Dink can basically kill a lot of pillbugs without being touched by standing on the very edge of a screen...

Rearrange the TS??.bmp files:

: Currently, many of the tile screen files do not use all 600 x 400. I am thinking of relocating some of them, and then adding some excellent existing tile maps that were created by some of the fellow Dinkers. (Of course, I will get the author's permission first.)

: Some or many of you might think this is a bad idea. So please give me your opinion about this one. One of the obvious disadventages of doing this is that people cannot use my new hard.dat file to replace their ongoing dmod if they are using current TS files or slightly modified ones.

: I can do another hard.dat specifically for the original Dink TS setup, but that's another huge and boring work...

: I may add a few new graphics as well (like Skeleton B's new buttoms), but what kind of new graphics mostly likely would be used by most of Skeleton users?

: Give me yor thoughts. Thanks.

Sounds good... but...

Re-arrange the tile sets and add more tiles? For all that is good and right, no!

Really. I can absolutely see your points on the horrid dink.ini and hard.dat... just not tiles. It isn't just the inability to use the hard.dat with the old Dink Smallwood tiles... but adding anywhere from 1-3 MB to every D-Mod that uses your skeleton. That'd suck.

Other than that, it looks like a great idea.

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by mimifish on 07/02/02 - 16:20:00

: Sounds good... but...

: Re-arrange the tile sets and add more tiles? For all that is good and right, no!

: Really. It isn't just the inability to use the hard.dat with the old Dink Smallwood tiles... but adding anywhere from 1-3 MB to every D-Mod that uses your skeleton. That'd suck.

That's what I was afraid of, too ;), although I was quite of eager to include SimonK's desert and other tiles. Well, since they are available for separate download, It really does not serve a good deed to force everyone to have the tile sets that they might not want to use at all.

But I am still going to add one or two tiles mainly for other purposes. Also follow the same pattern of Skeleton B. ;)

So I guess I should just start this boring job now. ;(

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by joshriot on 07/02/02 - 12:45:28

it will be a lot of work, but it will be SO much better than skeleton B.

some other suggestions:

fix that stupid bracket error in start-4 or whatever the exit button is,

fill in unused slots in dink.ini (there are a bunch, but you wont notice where they are unless you put all the sequences in order within the dink.ini),

use the .ini clean on the dink.ini to remove unecessary sprite info lines,

put in graphics that are included within dink .ffs (ie boomerang, stacked boxes, etc.) that for some strange reason are not in dink.ini,

put the scripts in propper style, and remove unecessary lines from the scripts (ie main { int &craps } in the start things)

there are a few more ways im sure you could improve it. i hope you or someone will cause i am too lazy.

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by mimifish on 07/02/02 - 14:36:54

: it will be a lot of work, but it will be SO much better than skeleton B.

: some other suggestions:

: fix that stupid bracket error in start-4 or whatever the exit button is,

I know. ;)

: fill in unused slots in dink.ini (there are a bunch, but you wont notice where they are unless you put all the sequences in order within the dink.ini),

I don't think this would be a good idea. If people wanted to use the original scripts, it would cause a lot of troubles. But I can sort the sequence in order and put a remark in the end of Dink.inn to say which numbers are available for new sprites.

: use the .ini clean on the dink.ini to remove unecessary sprite info lines,

That would be done, but I might prefer to remove them manuelly because I don't know if INIClean can really do the job completely or remove something that should be there.

: put in graphics that are included within dink .ffs (ie boomerang, stacked boxes, etc.) that for some strange reason are not in dink.ini,

I noticed that, too. In fact, they were included with original Dink, but removed by Mike Snyder in his Skeleton B. (Also some of the castle walls.)

: put the scripts in propper style, and remove unecessary lines from the scripts (ie main { int &craps } in the start things)

I'll try. :p

: there are a few more ways im sure you could improve it. i hope you or someone will cause i am too lazy.

I forgot to mention that I also plan to put a series of new tiles that have hardness specifically for building. They are better than those simple geometric shapes provided by the original Dink's tile hardness. You can then have perfect diamond-shaped boundries for your buildings and you do not need to use small type 2 sprites to do the dirty job any more.

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by joshriot on 07/03/02 - 09:24:42

: : use the .ini clean on the dink.ini to remove unecessary sprite info lines,

: That would be done, but I might prefer to remove them manuelly because I don't know if INIClean can really do the job completely or remove something that should be there.

i think it is safe to use. say you have

SET_SPRITE_INFO 428 2 41 74 -43 -75 37 -7

SET_SPRITE_INFO 428 2 41 71 -41 -75 37 -7

SET_SPRITE_INFO 428 2 41 74 -41 -75 37 -7

the first two are worthless, unecessary, and they get deleted. nothing that is needed is removed, and your new .ini is made into a new file just in case. this will help a lot rather than going through from bottom up and examining every single set sprite info line (and there are a whole lot in skeleton B) but putting them in order, however (which really should be done, as well) is all that is left for you.

i see your point about rearangeinating sequences with not working with original scripts and all, putting them in order and putting them in groups of tens would be very helpfull, like so you can see sprite attack/hit and where all empty slots are.

i.e.

load_sequence graphics\lands\details\grave- 90 NOTANIM

load_sequence graphics\lands\details\fores- 91 NOTANIM

load_sequence graphics\lands\details\beach- 92 NOTANIM

load_sequence graphics\lands\fence\fence- 93 NOTANIM

load_sequence graphics\lands\garden\spray- 94 75 39 73 -30 -16 38 8

load_sequence graphics\lands\rocks\rock- 95 NOTANIM

load_sequence graphics\struct\building\build- 96 NOTANIM

load_sequence graphics\lands\rocks\rocks- 97 NOTANIM

//98 free

//99 free

DOWNLOAD THIS!!! i have already put them in order and even the sprite_info and everything. the only problem is that the frame specials for backwards sequences and setting 'hit' are a little unorganized. i did this skeleton for personal use for a dmod im working on... but you could use this .ini, and improve it or whatever. and i just went and styled all the scripts for you too before uploading:>

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by Chrispy on 07/02/02 - 12:33:03

Reassign and redraw ALL 799 tile hardness:

: Either the original Dink or the Skeleton wastes a lot of hardness indexes on tile squares that do not need any hardness at all. Since you cannot reassign any assigned tile index, you are forced to have less tile hardness indexes available to play with. Also some of the hardness in current Dink has some small gltiches.

Clean up Dink.ini files and fix some hardbox errors:

: There still are quite a few unnecessary lines or undefine frames in Dink.ini. Also some of the hardboxes in the original Dink settings are not quite correct. For example, pillbugs. The setup of the hardbox of pillbugs would NOT let pillbugs touch Dink if Dink is right on the edge of a screen. So Dink can basically kill a lot of pillbugs without being touched by standing on the very edge of a screen...

Rearrange the TS??.bmp files:

: Currently, many of the tile screen files do not use all 600 x 400. I am thinking of relocating some of them, and then adding some excellent existing tile maps that were created by some of the fellow Dinkers. (Of course, I will get the author's permission first.)

: Some or many of you might think this is a bad idea. So please give me your opinion about this one. One of the obvious disadventages of doing this is that people cannot use my new hard.dat file to replace their ongoing dmod if they are using current TS files or slightly modified ones.

: I can do another hard.dat specifically for the original Dink TS setup, but that's another huge and boring work...

: I may add a few new graphics as well (like Skeleton B's new buttoms), but what kind of new graphics mostly likely would be used by most of Skeleton users?

: Give me yor thoughts. Thanks.

I'd like it, but also, here's a unusual discover I made: The tile sets can be in 600 * 450 size. I'm not sure though if the bottom row can accept hardness's, but they still work as grass and other unhard sets.

Whoda thunk it?

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by mimifish on 07/02/02 - 14:19:15

: I'd like it, but also, here's a unusual discover I made: The tile sets can be in 600 * 450 size. I'm not sure though if the bottom row can accept hardness's, but they still work as grass and other unhard sets.

: Whoda thunk it?

Ha, but I knew that, too. I have had this fact included in my tile hardness tutorial. You CAN use those tiles, but I don't know what is going to happen if you use WinDinkEdit. ;) And I did not try to play a game with 600 x 450 tile or assign hardness index to them. So I don't know what would happen then.

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by Kyle on 07/02/02 - 12:00:23

Reassign and redraw ALL 799 tile hardness:

: Either the original Dink or the Skeleton wastes a lot of hardness indexes on tile squares that do not need any hardness at all. Since you cannot reassign any assigned tile index, you are forced to have less tile hardness indexes available to play with. Also some of the hardness in current Dink has some small gltiches.

Clean up Dink.ini files and fix some hardbox errors:

: There still are quite a few unnecessary lines or undefine frames in Dink.ini. Also some of the hardboxes in the original Dink settings are not quite correct. For example, pillbugs. The setup of the hardbox of pillbugs would NOT let pillbugs touch Dink if Dink is right on the edge of a screen. So Dink can basically kill a lot of pillbugs without being touched by standing on the very edge of a screen...

Rearrange the TS??.bmp files:

: Currently, many of the tile screen files do not use all 600 x 400. I am thinking of relocating some of them, and then adding some excellent existing tile maps that were created by some of the fellow Dinkers. (Of course, I will get the author's permission first.)

: Some or many of you might think this is a bad idea. So please give me your opinion about this one. One of the obvious disadventages of doing this is that people cannot use my new hard.dat file to replace their ongoing dmod if they are using current TS files or slightly modified ones.

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by WC on 07/02/02 - 12:25:32

I'd post it and salute it!

--WC

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by SabreTrout on 07/02/02 - 13:34:25

I don't know if you are interested mimifish but...

A while ago I made a D-mod Starter Pack that was rejected by redink. It included a document called "The essence of a d-mod", about d-mod construction, and what works well in creating a d-mod. If you want, I'll give you the file for your skeleton, and maybe I'll make it a bit bigger as well. :)

Are you interested? ;)

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by mimifish on 07/02/02 - 14:27:38

: I don't know if you are interested mimifish but...

: A while ago I made a D-mod Starter Pack that was rejected by redink. It included a document called "The essence of a d-mod", about d-mod construction, and what works well in creating a d-mod. If you want, I'll give you the file for your skeleton, and maybe I'll make it a bit bigger as well. :)

: Are you interested? ;)

I'm sorry, but basically I have the same opinion as redink1. I think a Skeleton should just be a Skeleton. It shouldn't include ANY extra tutorial in it. The sole purpose of a Skeleton is for people to write their own dmod on top of the Skeleton. There is no reason for anyone to have a tutorial attached to their dmod, right?

If you think your file is useful, try rewriting it and add some information that were not covered by other current tutorial files. If you do have your own points, I believe DN should be happy to host your file.

Re: I'm thinking of doing a new Skeleton

Posted by SabreTrout on 07/04/02 - 08:55:58

It's not a tutorial, it's very different to that. But if you don't want it...I'l just release it myself.;)

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