The Dink Network

Dink Network - Site Upgrade Planning

September 4th, 09:46 PM
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redink1
King Male United States xbox steam bloop
A mother ducking wizard 
Over the next couple months, I'd like to fix up some things around here. Here's my wishlist; feel free to reply with 'yeah!', 'oh no', or 'hey what about this'. Note that none of this is set in stone, and is subject to change.

In no particular order:

1) It seems like D-Mod categories (Epic, Quest, Romp, Demo) don't have much value. May eliminate these (or maybe reevaluate)? Maybe user-submitted tags that staff have to approve?

2) Add ability to classify a D-Mod as 'mature', and make this status visible to users. (Done)

3) Replace (or supplement) review system with 'thumbs up' / 'thumbs down', potentially allowing anonymous voting. Use fancy algorithm so it takes into account low votes = lower average. Maybe move reviews to forum discussion posts.

4) Add compatibility information (v1.08, Freedink, Dink HD) to D-Mods.

5) Update the main entry page to look nicer.

6) Make it very obvious how to play the game for most people (install v1.08, then copy freedink into that folder) (Edit: If DinkHD has better backwards compatibility; emphasis it over v1.08)

7) Add better support for animated screenshots, like this one (right now TDN will create a non-animated preview image unless someone tinkers with the files directly). (Done)

8) Fix weird Chrome XSS error when post something to the forum.

9) Move to HTTPS. This kind-of works now, but style sheets are messed up.
September 4th, 10:08 PM
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kerrek
Peasant Male United States
oao 
1) It seems like D-Mod categories (Epic, Quest, Romp, Demo) don't have much value. May eliminate these (or maybe reevaluate)? Maybe user-submitted tags that staff have to approve?

I'd still keep categories for different lengths. Clean up some other ones but I like to know how long a D-Mod is before i play it.

2) Add ability to classify a D-Mod as 'mature', and make this status visible to users.

Smart idea!

3) Replace (or supplement) review system with 'thumbs up' / 'thumbs down', potentially allowing anonymous voting. Use fancy algorithm so it takes into account low votes = lower average. Maybe move reviews to forum discussion posts.

I don't know what that would add that the scores already don't, but it wouldn't hurt either.

4) Add compatibility information (v1.08, Freedink, Dink HD) to D-Mods.

Also would be good.

5) Update the main entry page to look nicer.


While there is nostalgia, I think changing the whole site's look would be for the better.

6) Make it very obvious how to play the game for most people (install v1.08, then copy freedink into that folder)


Also helpful.

7) Add better support for animated screenshots, like this one (right now TDN will create a non-animated preview image unless someone tinkers with the files directly).

Nothing but good.

8) Fix weird Chrome XSS error when post something to the forum.


Unaware of this but an error fixed is good.

9) Move to HTTPS. This kind-of works now, but style sheets are messed up.

Whatever works!
September 5th, 12:58 AM
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RangerLord
Peasant Male bloop
I'm here, just hidden in the shadows. 
1) Well, yeah, they kind of lost much of their meaning. Many demos got to the route where Unfinished category would make more sense. I guess I would support the reevaluation route, because while they have problems, they are part of the site's heritage.
2) Why not?
3) Urk... this. I know the review system has it's flaws, but scrapping something more than 10 years old that I also got used to would be going too far.
4) I don't like that the general compatibility of D-Mods got to the point where we no longer have them fully compatible with a single version. But this change may be necessery at this point...
5) Good idea, though I and maybe others would like to see the possible new design for this.
6) Why not?
7) Interesting change - why not?
8) Good.
9) Yes, this would be preferrable for me.
September 5th, 01:47 AM
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1) I'd say keep them, as mentioned by kerrek & RangerLord they a) give a general idea of length and b) are a part of the heritage, it would be sad to lose them entirely.
A reevaluation would be best I guess though not sure how to accomplish that for all D-Mods. If only done for some it wouldn't help much overall.
How could staff approved tags work without staff having to play the entire D-Mod before approving?

2) yeah!

3) I'd vote for supplement rather than replace. Perhaps that could replace the overall D-Mod score but reviews should stay as they are, with the scoring seperate? Or perhaps you could merge the two systems somehow with your fancy algorithm

4) yeah! ...in general, though this can be hard to tell for certain. I guess the status of most would be "unknown, probably ok".

5) yeah! I never really see it though as I always come straight to the forum (which is great and shouldn't be changed )

6) yeah!

7) yeah!

8) yeah!

9) yeah! Not 100% sure of the point but why not.

Can't think of any other suggestions offhand. Didn't we have a thread about this a while ago?
September 5th, 04:05 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
defeat the spam bot invasion we've had as of late.
September 5th, 04:20 AM
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Bluedy
Peasant Male Romania steam bloop
Flyest artist you know 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
September 5th, 04:52 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
10) add ponies
September 5th, 05:05 AM
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RangerLord
Peasant Male bloop
I'm here, just hidden in the shadows. 
Yeah, the spambots need to be dealt with.
September 5th, 05:08 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
see, i have allies.
September 5th, 10:01 AM
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scratcher
Bard Male Finland bloop
cigarette bonca 
1) It seems like D-Mod categories (Epic, Quest, Romp, Demo) don't have much value. May eliminate these (or maybe reevaluate)? Maybe user-submitted tags that staff have to approve?

I think the categories are useful, it's just that they have been applied a bit... liberally on some dmods. A tag system could work, I guess.

2) Add ability to classify a D-Mod as 'mature', and make this status visible to users.

Sounds like today's world. This would obviously fit with the tag system...

3) Replace (or supplement) review system with 'thumbs up' / 'thumbs down', potentially allowing anonymous voting. Use fancy algorithm so it takes into account low votes = lower average. Maybe move reviews to forum discussion posts.

I like reviews, they make this site's file system light years ahead of nexus sites, for example. I've browsed the comments section on those sites so many times, hoping someone's written an actual review. Usually no such luck, and you just have to download the file blind and try it. Looking at the most popular files doesn't help at all, probably because my tastes don't really align with what many people like (screw anime hairstyles in my Fallout/TES), or because an otherwise decent quest mod has some fatal flaw (dialogue written and acted by a 5-year-old).

What I don't like about the review system is when someone writes a decent review, but the score doesn't match or it's very high/low. Then you have to decide whether to approve the review and skew the score, or reject the review and probably have it remain rejected forever. I don't really like the staff controlling the scores by approving/rejecting reviews in the first place. It would be nicer to just reject them based on more tangible stuff, like if the review is obviously lying/text copied from another review/incoherent/etc.

I think thumbs up / thumbs down is pretty worthless when it comes to something as complicated as a dmod. You can't tell anything by that, other than 'maybe the dmod will at least be okay', 'maybe the author at least tried', or 'so many thumbs down, oh look at that the dmod was made by Skorn.'

Umm, a thumb system could actually be nice for ranking reviews rather than the whole featured/normal stuff. If you found this review helpful, give it a thumbs up.

4) Add compatibility information (v1.08, Freedink, Dink HD) to D-Mods.

Yes. (Tags?)

5) Update the main entry page to look nicer.

Yes. It would be nice to give the whole site a bit of a facelift, if only because it's been like this forever.

6) Make it very obvious how to play the game for most people (install v1.08, then copy freedink into that folder)

YES.

13) I think deleted posts should be handled differently. Right now, you can either see them just as well as every other post, or not see them at all. They could be minimized so that you'd have to click a little icon to expand them, or moved into their own subforum that's not visible on the main board, or something like that.

EDIT: The ability to add screenshots/pictures into reviews would also be very nice.
September 5th, 11:18 AM
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SlipDink
Peasant Male United States bloop
2nd generation. No easy way to be free. 
> Over the next couple months, I'd like to fix up some things around here. Here's my wishlist; feel free to reply with 'yeah!', 'oh no', or 'hey what about this'. Note that none of this is set in stone, and is subject to change.
>
> In no particular order:
>
> 1) It seems like D-Mod categories (Epic, Quest, Romp, Demo) don't have much value. May eliminate these (or maybe reevaluate)? Maybe user-submitted tags that staff have to approve?
>

Perhaps keep the categories, but use objective analysis to also describe the scope of a dmod. For example. Count the number of screens, and the number of scripts. Then compare those tallies to the number of screens and scripts in the Original Dink Smallwood adventure.

Or count the number of lines in all the scripts, instead of just the raw count of scripts. Using a (*ix-like) tool like wc could make that easy. To easily count the number of screens in a dmod would be a matter of writing "C" code you could use to count the number of undefined screens (purple blocks in dinkedit and it's descendants) in a map.dat file and subtracting that from 768. Anyway, the idea is that this would be a more objective way of sizing the dmod by basing that analysis on real world information.

Example: I found 22262 lines in develop/source that represent the original scripts for the "dink/story" directory. That count or higher could qualify as a quest. That count plus 615 screens (about 80%) in use could make it an epic.

> 2) Add ability to classify a D-Mod as 'mature', and make this status visible to users.

Excellent idea!

>
> 3) Replace (or supplement) review system with 'thumbs up' / 'thumbs down', potentially allowing anonymous voting. Use fancy algorithm so it takes into account low votes = lower average. Maybe move reviews to forum discussion posts.
>

I really like the long reviews and rating systems as they are. Thumbs up/down would not tell me enough. For example, if one reviewer complained that the story was too elaborate for a particular dmod and thus he lowered his score due to this perceived shortcoming, then that would actually ENCOURAGE me to download that dmod. Different people have different reasons for their evaluations. I also like that I can see all of the multiple reviews (when there is more than one) for each dmod.

> 4) Add compatibility information (v1.08, Freedink, Dink HD) to D-Mods.
>

Good idea. But how can you do this (with certainty) for the existing library of dmods?

> 5) Update the main entry page to look nicer.
>

It may encourage more visitors if it looked "flashier" and more modern, though I would recommend avoiding actual flash animations and code per se and using other techniques as flash seems to be on it's way out.

> 6) Make it very obvious how to play the game for most people (install v1.08, then copy freedink into that folder)
>

I'd say this is a VERY good idea. Be sure to include any operating system specific instructions and a way to (for example) make sure you have all the sounds that came with the original game on your system.

> 7) Add better support for animated screenshots, like this one (right now TDN will create a non-animated preview image unless someone tinkers with the files directly).
>

This would be nice, but not very important as I see it.

> 8) Fix weird Chrome XSS error when post something to the forum.
>

Good idea!

> 9) Move to HTTPS. This kind-of works now, but style sheets are messed up.
>

I think this does not matter much, unless this web site starts taking payments via master-card, pay-pal, bit-coin or the like.
September 5th, 09:08 PM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
discord.gg/Ukugfbh 
I managed to deal with spambots on Dink Solutions entirely by making it so that people have to answer a rather basic Dink-related question in order to edit a page.

I found that forcing them to answer what Dink's uncle's name was meant that only legitimate people ended up being able to post. I imagine a similar approach would work on this site.
September 6th, 07:50 AM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
Hey redink1 is there anyways you can put up a spot in the right of the website so that it can show random game screenshots of dink smallwood ? kinda like how it is on steam website , click on a game and it shows different screenshots.

It would be nice to see random screenshots of the game along with the poll and quotes we have now.

Also would it be possible to sort dmods by number of dowloads or show the amount of times they have been downloaded ? so that people looking for go for the popular ones and the odd ones.

September 7th, 06:11 PM
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brassweasel
Ghost
 
I just think that with so few people writing reviews these days, then any one person has way too much power when scoring a dmod. It can take months or years to make a good dmod, and yet only a matter of minutes to destroy it! There should be some kind of appeal system.

My mods have never been mistreated on here, but I think it could be a potential problem for someone in the future.

Thank you.
September 8th, 03:30 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
a review doesn't "destroy" a dmod.
September 8th, 08:16 AM
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Iplaydink
Peasant Male Sweden steam
Hmm.. 
Maybe a way of sorting dmods by number of reviews would be a good way to help people find dmods with only 1 or 2 reviews? Those are the ones we need reviews for, not more reviews of "ABCDEF...".

But yeah people also have to be interrested in writing reviews which we as a whole don't seem to be at the moment, and I don't think that is something website design can help with.
September 8th, 09:19 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
unless you award points for reviews and other shit and have grapefruits up for sale which you can use points for.
September 8th, 02:32 PM
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Toof
Peasant Male
I disagree. 
Can you add an option for members of the community to choose if they are worshiping DDC (Dead Dragon's carcass) or DDC (Dead Dragon's corpse)?

Things are getting stale here, we need a reason for flaming...
September 8th, 04:42 PM
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brassweasel
Ghost
 
Well.... it may not destroy it outright, but one low score could cripple its odds of getting played. It's probably pretty rare though. Usually when I strongly disagree with a score, that is because I think the score is way too high than the opposite.

I think about what Scratcher said about 'Pilgrim's Quest' from time to time. He said that he'd give it about a 5.0! I picture myself working on a dmod for years only to get a 5.0 from Scratcher because one NPC showed too much cleavage or something. My dmod would be toast! There is no recovering from that at this point.

Also, there is you, Skurn, and 'Stone of Balance'. What did you try to give it?

So I do think that one really bad review could permanently cripple a dmod.

Shouldn't there be some recourse? Review court or something?
September 8th, 05:23 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
5.0 from sctarcttrrt isn't going to bring down pilgrim's quest's score. my 1.0 or whatever for stone of balance probably brought it down like, 0.1. i dunno. skull got whiny about it and had it removed anyways.

but one or two or a hoof full of negative reviews really shouldn't matter. they're all free, after all so no risk in paying for a pile of shit.

i mean...look at abcd whatever.

(also put the stone of balance review back up. that dmod is definitely not a divine substance)
September 8th, 05:54 PM
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brassweasel
Ghost
 
True it wouldn't impact pilgrim's quest much because it is well buffered. It would if it only got one or two other scores though.

I don't think this is too likely though. Scratcher is a cool guy, so I doubt he'd actually do that to someone. It's just something that I picture. I wouldn't even care so much if it happened after my dmod was out for a long time. Just so long as a reasonable number of people played it first.

I didn't know that this is what happened to your review of SOB. I just assumed that Scratcher rejected it. I guess I assumed too quickly. I never completed SOB. I started to play it, but I just couldn't get into it for some reason, so I quit playing fairly early on. I like dmods like '3 amulets' that keep moving at a fast pace so you never get bored.

I'd be interested to read your review of SOB. I 100% percent agreed with you on ex-peppermint!

September 8th, 10:10 PM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
Interesting discussion on reviews, i dont remember reading a single review on here before playing any dmods(no offense intended) , i always went with the score and any dmod that people were discussing on the forum , so probably the score is more important here. A low one might put the dmod out for good.
September 9th, 12:23 AM
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redink1
King Male United States xbox steam bloop
A mother ducking wizard 
Progress:

1) Everyone can now upload animated gifs as screenshots.
2) Added random D-Mod screenshot to the right navigation bar.
September 9th, 12:24 AM
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redink1
King Male United States xbox steam bloop
A mother ducking wizard 
Skurn, if you re-submit your review, I'll take a look. It's hard to look through old rejected items.
September 9th, 01:13 AM
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liquid141
Peasant
Sons of liberty 
2) Added random D-Mod screenshot to the right navigation bar.

Does it change automatically or only on refresh ?
September 9th, 01:54 AM
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DinkDude95
Peasant Male Australia steam
The guy with the cute D-Mod. 
"2) Added random D-Mod screenshot to the right navigation bar."

This is already my favourite feature.
September 9th, 08:23 AM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
is nowhere
September 14th, 09:03 PM
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Hi.

I'm late, but I believe all improvements mentioned are good to have.
Is help needed in these matters?

September 16th, 04:40 AM
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Bluedy
Peasant Male Romania steam bloop
Flyest artist you know 
Wouldn't it be cool if every user could have a "favourite" section on their profiles where they could favourite files on the DN?
September 16th, 04:56 PM
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brassweasel
Ghost
 
Also, there should be a way to see only finished dmods. You can select unfinished, or demos, but you can't select only finished ones.

What about security? My browser says the site isn't secure if I go to sign in. So I just appear as a ghost (even though I don't use that password for anything else, so what am I worried about?).

September 16th, 05:02 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
isn't that something to do with html/5 and kind of a reason the site should upgrade in general? it's not unsafe, just not modern. i guess. another site i went to was like that. then the code updated or something shit and the warning was gone. something about a certificate like how anti-virus software will bitch about evil software you downloaded every 4 seconds because the .exe doesn't contain a certain official certificate.
September 18th, 01:27 PM
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pillbug
Peasant Male United States xbox steam
Love! True love! 
Great ideas. Very excited for the changes.
September 18th, 05:41 PM
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Toof
Peasant Male
I disagree. 
Replace (or supplement) review system with 'thumbs up' / 'thumbs down'

This really looks like limited option, especially if you intend to replace the whole review system. I don't know how would this be used as a supplement, but it can do a dmod injustice in both ways. Isn't a simple 1-10 scale without a necessary text review simpler and better? Just a thought.
September 18th, 05:52 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
thumbs up and down is too black and white. just remove the scoring system entirely and leave it up to people to play them.
September 18th, 09:35 PM
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redink1
King Male United States xbox steam bloop
A mother ducking wizard 
Progress:

1) Staff can now mark D-Mods as Mature. This status is displayed on the file page. These D-Mods are currently marked as Mature:

Pilgrim's Quest
Progeny
Stone of Balance

2) Added 'Let's Play (DSPT)' embedded youtube playlists in the file pages for:

Gold Knight Agency (The)
Quest for Cheese (The)
World of DinkC
Agatha Smallwood's Will
Quel
Dinky Dimensions 1: FIAT
I, Kara Gu
Hotel of the Middle Night
Power Of Blood
Chores
Prophecy of the Ancients
Grasp of Darkness
Historical Hero
Basilisk Smile (The)
Cycles of Evil
Dink Smallwood
Cloud Castle
Back from the Grave
Quest for the Gems
September 18th, 10:51 PM
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Skurn
Peasant Female United States xbox steam duck bloop
i like pie 
sad
September 19th, 09:11 AM
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RangerLord
Peasant Male bloop
I'm here, just hidden in the shadows. 
Some thought came to me. What if we simplify the reviews in a way that new reviews will no longer have decimal numbers. I mean like instead of 7.4 or 8.8 there would be 7 or 8. Or maybe 7, 7.5, 8 ect. Just an idea, maybe someone has a better one.
September 19th, 09:42 AM
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yeoldetoast
Peasant Female Australia steam
discord.gg/Ukugfbh 
10) Fix the CSS so as to bring back the rounded corners (takes eight seconds).
September 19th, 10:13 AM
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Bluedy
Peasant Male Romania steam bloop
Flyest artist you know 
Im still supporting my "favourites" idea